I know what I am referring to but I don't happen to have a photographic memory and I would have to spend some time doing research on it like I did before.... which in turn was ignored... so I just am not going to waste my time because I am of the opinion that it would not mean anything to you anyway.

Well, I am sure you can see how I fail to share the same perspective of science given that this reference is obscure enough to not be remembered.

Anyone else ever heard of anything like this? I am actually curious, I don't try to defend scientists, only science, and people are notoriously screwed up creatures as a whole arnt we?

I am pretty jaded when it comes to Dr's but sadly my perspective on Dr's is limited to my own personal experience, which I would label as limited, so I try to give each new one some benefit of doubt.

Okay here is one example: THE ATOM

Here is quick cut and paste example.




Atomic theory is an ancient science. The earliest record of it can be found in Vedic texts from india which are many thousands of years old.

Legend has it that the Vedic civilisation was highly advanced. The sages that oversaw its development, through their mystic insight and deep meditation, discovered the ancient symbols of spirituality: Aumkara and Swastika. They also discovered many scientific principles that they applied to develop a highly advanced technology. They gave the atom its sanskrit name "Anu".

While the technical achievements of this ancient civilisation have been forgotten the archetypal symbols of spirituality have maintained their eminence in our consciousness. Now, thanks to advances in modern atomic theory, the atomic basis of these divine symbols can be appreciated.

___________________________________________


The first person to propose that matter was made
of atoms, and then write it down, was a Greek philosopher
named Democritus. But he had no experimental proof of his
notion.


Then, a number of scientists, starting probably with Newton in the late 1600s, proposed a corpuscular, or atomic, model.

But it wasn't until the late 1700s/early 1800s that John Dalton proposed that all matter was made of atoms and actually used it to explain a bunch of experiments that had been done on gases, and to calculate atomic weights of elements. However, he still hadn't PROVED that atoms existed...he just showed that the atomic concept was useful
and helped explain a lot of data.

Probably the best direct probe of the atom was first done by Rutherford and his student, C.T.R. Wilson, who invented the cloud chamber and used it to show that when thin gold foil is bombarded by helium nuclei (alpha particles), the particles are occasionally deflected by a very large angle, but usually pass straight through. This gave rise to the realization that the gold was composed of atoms, with a tiny nucleus at the middle which could occasionally collide with an alpha particle and send it flying.

the word "reality" simply implies, it is what is real. seeing as how we can only perceive a very narrow spectrum of what is in the universe, we as humans have very little concept of actual reality at all.

This is very true. What we think and decide is "real" is only what is "real" to us as human beings with limited perceptions. Therefore a human reality would be described quite differently from the reality of a squid or a spider in the rain forest.

JB,

Not to say that your being dishonest, but I really cannot recall the situation that you are describing here. Do you remember the topic?

It was in your thread titled truth vs. bullsh*t and in two posts I summarized the work of David Bohm and a couple other authorities. You responded with a yawn.

Sorry...

By that time I had made up my mind that I was not going to be productive in conversation, based upon the way it had been going...

I did not even read it.

Hence an example of the reason for my hesitation in spending my time to back up my statements, opinions, beliefs and assertions to anyone who has already made up their mind anyway.

jb

Ever dropped any window pane JB?

If you mean acid, no. I don't do and never have done any drugs. And I don't inhale weed either.

No offense Just askingNo harm no foul

And this is why you are mad at science?

Still preaching science over everything else is a sign of a limited and constrained mind. I remind you all again that it is but one part of the big picture that is reality.

I'm not mad at science.. You asked for an example of what I was saying and I gave you one.

Is that all you have to say when I mention that it was a philosopher (not a scientist) who was the first person to propose that matter was made of atoms?

I'll bet he knew someone just like you who told him he was being delusional and unscientific and ragged on him because he had no proof. They probably told him to "shut up" if he could not prove his theory.

But then, he was ahead of science.

I'll tell you what does piss me off, is people telling me that I should just "shut up" if I can't prove my theories.


JB

12:1.1 The universe of universes is not an infinite plane, a boundless cube, nor a limitless circle; it certainly has dimensions. The laws of physical organization and administration prove conclusively that the whole vast aggregation of force-energy and matter-power functions ultimately as a space unit, as an organized and co-ordinated whole. The observable behavior of the material creation constitutes evidence of a physical universe of definite limits. The final proof of both a circular and delimited universe is afforded by the, to us, well-known fact that all forms of basic energy ever swing around the curved path of the space levels of the master universe in obedience to the incessant and absolute pull of Paradise gravity.

12:1.2 The successive space levels of the master universe constitute the major divisions of pervaded space—total creation, organized and partially inhabited or yet to be organized and inhabited. If the master universe were not a series of elliptical space levels of lessened resistance to motion, alternating with zones of relative quiescence, we conceive that some of the cosmic energies would be observed to shoot off on an infinite range, off on a straight-line path into trackless space; but we never find force, energy, or matter thus behaving; ever they whirl, always swinging onward in the tracks of the great space circuits.

12:1.3 Proceeding outward from Paradise through the horizontal extension of pervaded space, the master universe is existent in six concentric ellipses, the space levels encircling the central Isle:

The Central Universe— Havona.

The Seven Superuniverses.

The First Outer Space Level.

The Second Outer Space Level.

The Third Outer Space Level.

The Fourth and Outermost Space Level.

12:1.4 Havona, the central universe, is not a time creation; it is an eternal existence. This never-beginning, never-ending universe consists of one billion spheres of sublime perfection and is surrounded by the enormous dark gravity bodies. At the center of Havona is the stationary and absolutely stabilized Isle of Paradise, surrounded by its twenty-one satellites. Owing to the enormous encircling masses of the dark gravity bodies about the fringe of the central universe, the mass content of this central creation is far in excess of the total known mass of all seven sectors of the grand universe.

12:1.5 The Paradise-Havona System, the eternal universe encircling the eternal Isle, constitutes the perfect and eternal nucleus of the master universe; all seven of the superuniverses and all regions of outer space revolve in established orbits around the gigantic central aggregation of the Paradise satellites and the Havona spheres.

12:1.6 The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations; nowhere do their boundaries divide a nebular family, neither do they cross a local universe, a prime creative unit. Each superuniverse is simply a geographic space clustering of approximately one seventh of the organized and partially inhabited post-Havona creation, and each is about equal in the number of local universes embraced and in the space encompassed. Nebadon, your local universe, is one of the newer creations in Orvonton, the seventh superuniverse.

12:1.7 The Grand Universe is the present organized and inhabited creation. It consists of the seven superuniverses, with an aggregate evolutionary potential of around seven trillion inhabited planets, not to mention the eternal spheres of the central creation. But this tentative estimate takes no account of architectural administrative spheres, neither does it include the outlying groups of unorganized universes. The present ragged edge of the grand universe, its uneven and unfinished periphery, together with the tremendously unsettled condition of the whole astronomical plot, suggests to our star students that even the seven superuniverses are, as yet, uncompleted. As we move from within, from the divine center outward in any one direction, we do, eventually, come to the outer limits of the organized and inhabited creation; we come to the outer limits of the grand universe. And it is near this outer border, in a far-off corner of such a magnificent creation, that your local universe has its eventful existence.

12:1.8 The Outer Space Levels. Far out in space, at an enormous distance from the seven inhabited superuniverses, there are assembling vast and unbelievably stupendous circuits of force and materializing energies. Between the energy circuits of the seven superuniverses and this gigantic outer belt of force activity, there is a space zone of comparative quiet, which varies in width but averages about four hundred thousand light-years. These space zones are free from star dust—cosmic fog. Our students of these phenomena are in doubt as to the exact status of the space-forces existing in this zone of relative quiet which encircles the seven superuniverses. But about one-half million light-years beyond the periphery of the present grand universe we observe the beginnings of a zone of an unbelievable energy action which increases in volume and intensity for over twenty-five million light-years. These tremendous wheels of energizing forces are situated in the first outer space level, a continuous belt of cosmic activity encircling the whole of the known, organized, and inhabited creation.

12:1.9 Still greater activities are taking place beyond these regions, for the Uversa physicists have detected early evidence of force manifestations more than fifty million light-years beyond the outermost ranges of the phenomena in the first outer space level. These activities undoubtedly presage the organization of the material creations of the second outer space level of the master universe.

12:1.10 The central universe is the creation of eternity; the seven superuniverses are the creations of time; the four outer space levels are undoubtedly destined to eventuate-evolve the ultimacy of creation. And there are those who maintain that the Infinite can never attain full expression short of infinity; and therefore do they postulate an additional and unrevealed creation beyond the fourth and outermost space level, a possible ever-expanding, never-ending universe of infinity. In theory we do not know how to limit either the infinity of the Creator or the potential infinity of creation, but as it exists and is administered, we regard the master universe as having limitations, as being definitely delimited and bounded on its outer margins by open space.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/index.html

Could you clarify "inhale weed"...Sure you not related to B. Clinton?...lol

NOT MAD? Id be mad if this where true, but your example didn't even show this. History still gives credit to those you listed . . . .

History also gives credit to those that worked out the math and made this knowledge usable . . . . you have made absolutely no point. And above you say spiritualist, but then shift gears to philosopher's? JB, this is getting a little tiring. Maybe time to admit science isn't so bad after all, that your just mad becuase me and creative are skeptical . . . lol

This premise is one I disagree with. Science is what shows us reality.

If you don't see the connection and similarity between a "spiritualist" and a philosopher I can't help you there.

History is history. It gives credit because it has to, and because it is a well known fact.

But it is people who worship science who go around touting that philosophers are full of bullsh*t and should shut up if they don't have proof to present that I am "mad" at.

Yes, it is getting tiring. You don't see my point at all, probably because you just don't want to see it. Hence you say I have made no point. You just don't see it.

You still think you are defending science. You aren't. I have nothing against science. It is skeptical people who worship science who are frustrating.

In many ways I am skeptical too. But I am skeptical of the status quo and of some authorities. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical.

Although you might see me as somewhat "gullible" the strange thing is that I see you that way.

You are gullible to authority. You tend to quickly believe anything that looks somewhat official and authoritative like clinical trials that are bought and paid for by the very drug companies who are trying to find a reason to sell their drugs.

<rant>

I am not mad at you and creative because you are "skeptical." I don't care what you believe.

But I will tell you what does tick me off.

Disrespect.

Telling me that I ought to just "shut up or keep quiet" if I don't have scientific proof to back up my statements.

Telling me that my thinking is "dangerous to the progress of society."

Telling me that my ideas are ignorant and childish.

Yawning, laughing, ignoring my posts, ignoring my questions.

So now you know what ticks me off. Its your blatant and purposeful disrespect of my point of view.

If you can't see it then it is your loss. You have failed to understand and I have failed to communicate with you.

</end of rant>