Topic: Economics over the last 60 years: The good, the bad, and the
TenTigers's photo
Tue 02/24/09 07:45 AM
There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...

InvictusV's photo
Tue 02/24/09 03:11 PM
Edited by InvictusV on Tue 02/24/09 03:40 PM

Dragoness's photo
Tue 02/24/09 03:23 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Tue 02/24/09 03:41 PM
I would say we fulfilled our own prophecy of greed and power. Our greed of wanting to finance important things with zero callateral. Power is self explanatory but the greatest example is the Bush administration waging illegal war in the name of power. Discarding the fact that the terrorist who attacked us was not in Iraq, had never been in Iraq and had no support from Iraq. Putting this country in debt so far we can't see the end. Bush's favoritism for the elite like him and disregard for the rest of humanity allowed for the economic decline. He could have stopped it just by listening to financial advisors and acting in the name of the average citizen of this country.

Just a few ideas there.


InvictusV's photo
Tue 02/24/09 03:28 PM
The question was since world war 2. It is a hard sell to blame Bush and only Bush for our problems since 1945.

Korea was an illegal war. Vietnam was an illegal war. The Gulf War was an illegal war. Serbia was an illegal war.

Bush was in charge of all those wars as well?

Hmmmm...

Dragoness's photo
Tue 02/24/09 03:43 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Tue 02/24/09 03:51 PM

The question was since world war 2. It is a hard sell to blame Bush and only Bush for our problems since 1945.

Korea was an illegal war. Vietnam was an illegal war. The Gulf War was an illegal war. Serbia was an illegal war.

Bush was in charge of all those wars as well?

Hmmmm...


I said an example, recent sure but just as valid.


yellowrose10's photo
Tue 02/24/09 04:47 PM

Atlantis75's photo
Tue 02/24/09 06:55 PM
Edited by Atlantis75 on Tue 02/24/09 06:57 PM

There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


I've grown up in one of those "bombed back to the stone ages" countries...

Well, here is my input.

Here in USA, they talk about "recession" and "depression". Yeah compared to what?

I've grown up listening to my grandfather and grandmother how difficult life was after WWII. My grandfather served in the army in WWII. He was fighting on the eastern front, yeah, USA "enemy", fighting along with the germans, against the soviets.

Many don't know what "recession" and "depression" is until you try to build back your country from the rubble, and for extra spice add some communist dictatorship for 45 years.

This is still heaven and sweet cake - with this recession- compared to the rest of the world or what they grow through each day to make a living.

Ohh, can't buy the newest car on a bank loan. Well, tough sh1t. Wait until you have to grow your own food to survive.

yellowrose10's photo
Tue 02/24/09 07:17 PM


There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


drinker



I've grown up in one of those "bombed back to the stone ages" countries...

Well, here is my input.

Here in USA, they talk about "recession" and "depression". Yeah compared to what?

I've grown up listening to my grandfather and grandmother how difficult life was after WWII. My grandfather served in the army in WWII. He was fighting on the eastern front, yeah, USA "enemy", fighting along with the germans, against the soviets.

Many don't know what "recession" and "depression" is until you try to build back your country from the rubble, and for extra spice add some communist dictatorship for 45 years.

This is still heaven and sweet cake - with this recession- compared to the rest of the world or what they grow through each day to make a living.

Ohh, can't buy the newest car on a bank loan. Well, tough sh1t. Wait until you have to grow your own food to survive.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 02/24/09 07:48 PM


There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


I've grown up in one of those "bombed back to the stone ages" countries...

Well, here is my input.

Here in USA, they talk about "recession" and "depression". Yeah compared to what?

I've grown up listening to my grandfather and grandmother how difficult life was after WWII. My grandfather served in the army in WWII. He was fighting on the eastern front, yeah, USA "enemy", fighting along with the germans, against the soviets.

Many don't know what "recession" and "depression" is until you try to build back your country from the rubble, and for extra spice add some communist dictatorship for 45 years.

This is still heaven and sweet cake - with this recession- compared to the rest of the world or what they grow through each day to make a living.

Ohh, can't buy the newest car on a bank loan. Well, tough sh1t. Wait until you have to grow your own food to survive.


You are right we are spoiled here.

Some of us have seen days though I have to say I don't want to see those days again. Although mine may not have been that severe, I hand washed our clothes including diapers, We lived off of 20 dollars in groceries per week sometimes less, we had a tv that the picture tube was going out on so we could only watch it in the dark with all the lights off to see the picture barely, we had no phone, the gas and electric was included in our rent so we did not have that shut off but we did get behind on our rent from time to time and I would work for the landlord to try to help stop the eviction process, the only time we went to the doc was in emergency like broken bones or when the kid's dad was spitting up blood from his inhaling mold at the wheat silo, which he was allergic to. This was a small town so jobs were not abundant and getting paid enough for a baby sitter was almost unknown so I really had a hard time trying to supplement the kid's dad's working. I did this for years.

I have to say when you live like that you appreciate even what others consider poor living.

no photo
Tue 02/24/09 08:02 PM
What has been done has been done. What is important now is what will you do to fix it?


Dragoness's photo
Tue 02/24/09 08:04 PM

What has been done has been done. What is important now is what will you do to fix it?




Yea, blame never gets us anywhere, that is so true. And it is easy to get caught in the blame game. You see I did too....lol

TenTigers's photo
Tue 02/24/09 08:12 PM

What has been done has been done. What is important now is what will you do to fix it?




How will you fix it if you don't know what went wrong?

And not everything is about blame either. The topic asks about the good as well as the bad.

AndrewAV's photo
Tue 02/24/09 10:03 PM

There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


I can tell you the changes to the economic climate that no longer make this feasible... population growth. By infusing more people into the same area, you (1)increase the job pool so jobs in relation pay less - more supply for workers = less demand by employers = lower wages. And (2) eventually, there are fewer and fewer places to build. This increases land and home prices. At least that's the simple version. more complexity comes from the fact that many post-WWII homes were built in track and were often identical. This provided affordable housing for many suburb-style.

Best moves: Reaganomics and the Bush tax cuts. Both pulled us rapidly out of a recession.

Largest screw-ups: Greenspan's reserve leaving interest rates high. the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act passed under Clinton's administration. Both are the main forerunners for our current situation.

mnhiker's photo
Tue 02/24/09 11:16 PM
The Vietnam War was one of the costliest quagmires the U.S. ever got into.

In the end, we failed.

And it affected our economy, and not for the better.

Prices of everything went up because of the Vietnam War.

Unfortunately, history keeps repeating itself.

The Iraq War has already taken an enormous toll which could have been avoided.

After all, there were a lot of people who wanted Saddam Hussein dead, not just the Kurds.

By supporting these groups, we could have toppled him eventually, and at a much cheaper price.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 02/24/09 11:23 PM

There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


First of all, at the end of WWII with the return of millions of men, and the need for materials no longer present, unemployment in the US skyrocketed.
It wasnt as rosy as you think!

Fanta46's photo
Tue 02/24/09 11:41 PM


There is no question that the end of World War II left the United States in prime standing. We were pretty much the only ones left with an industrial infastructure with Europe pretty much bombed back to the stone age and Japan a radioactive nightmare.

Meanwhile in America...

People are buying and selling. One person could work a single job and make enough money to afford a house, a car, and support a family while their significant other stayed at home to raise the family and care for the house.

Now given that starting point, what decisions and events over the last 60 years were good and bad for us and why do you believe this?

Play nice kids...


I've grown up in one of those "bombed back to the stone ages" countries...

Well, here is my input.

Here in USA, they talk about "recession" and "depression". Yeah compared to what?

I've grown up listening to my grandfather and grandmother how difficult life was after WWII. My grandfather served in the army in WWII. He was fighting on the eastern front, yeah, USA "enemy", fighting along with the germans, against the soviets.

Many don't know what "recession" and "depression" is until you try to build back your country from the rubble, and for extra spice add some communist dictatorship for 45 years.

This is still heaven and sweet cake - with this recession- compared to the rest of the world or what they grow through each day to make a living.

Ohh, can't buy the newest car on a bank loan. Well, tough sh1t. Wait until you have to grow your own food to survive.


Oh yea?
Which one?
It really doesnt matter.
Many Americans died fighting your war (WWII) far from their home.
We then spent billions rebuilding your countries and now you throw this chit in our faces.
I had family die in your countries when they could have stayed right here.
I spent 28 months and many others over a 50 yr span spent time defending Western Europe from the Russians. If we hadnt all of you would be speaking German or Russian by now, because you couldnt defend yourselves.
Americans give for others when they dont have to. That's our way, but we dont ask to listen to the ungrateful BS when we do.
Suffer? We suffered for your grandparents. Not knowing what country you are talking about, they may have killed Americans.

nogames39's photo
Tue 02/24/09 11:43 PM



I can tell you the changes to the economic climate that no longer make this feasible... population growth. By infusing more people into the same area, you (1)increase the job pool so jobs in relation pay less - more supply for workers = less demand by employers = lower wages. And (2) eventually, there are fewer and fewer places to build. This increases land and home prices. At least that's the simple version. more complexity comes from the fact that many post-WWII homes were built in track and were often identical. This provided affordable housing for many suburb-style.

Best moves: Reaganomics and the Bush tax cuts. Both pulled us rapidly out of a recession.

Largest screw-ups: Greenspan's reserve leaving interest rates high. the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act passed under Clinton's administration. Both are the main forerunners for our current situation.


I would have to argue with this.

Population increase:
1-job pool increases.
2-demand increases, since all those people are consumers as well.

As for the fewer places to build, this is an old myth. We have built so much, all of it is currently empty in inland empire. Drive along 15 freeway... Track after track.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/25/09 05:43 PM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Wed 02/25/09 05:44 PM
Bad decisions (this goes back a bit more than 60 years...)

#1. the worst economic disaster - Federal Reserve born 1913

#2. Federal incomce tax designed to pay debts to the federal reserve

#3. Taking us off the gold standard.

#4. Taking us off the silver standard.

#5. The community reinvestment act 1977.



Periodically most government restrictions of the market have done more harm than good.

Also, social programs are always a bad idea economically. Some are necessary.

NAFTA

Outsourcing labor.

The Foriegn Policy we've adopted after WWII, spending billions a month overseas is horrible for the economy.

Many jobs are necessary, like firefighters, policemen, soldiers, accountants, lawyers, etc. But, since they don't add to our GDP, they don't offer any help for the economy. Therefore, we need more jobs focusing on production, like construction, factory work, and most importantly farming. For decades farms have been overtaxed and pressured to close. This is harmful.

Increasing taxes on businesses is always a harmful move for the economy as well.

I know got a little general towards the end, but these are the bad points in a nutshell.

Good moves are any that are legal. Most of the above are actually illegal.

For instance, Thomas Jefferson getting rid of our first national bank. Andrew Johnson getting rid of our second national bank. (President Jackson is the only president in history to completely pay off our national debt.)

Tax cuts for businesses are a good thing, only if a government can be fiscally responsible. Usually businesses add to GDP, therefore they provide jobs that actually help the economy.

JFK made a really good economic decision by creating executive order 11110, which bypasses the federal reserve. Oddly enough no one has used it...

Basically, you follow our constitution you won't go wrong. If you don't you almost always mess things up for the worse.

Side note:

Picking a particular war such as our involvement in Iraq, is distracting. A very small part of a big picture. Our foriegn policy as a whole must be addressed.