From http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10457126-71.html

If the school OWNS the laptops then they are free to do what they wish with them.

You are joking, right? I mean, you have to be joking.

If you aren't joking, have you really thought this one through?

They own them, therefore they can do what they wish???

So if I buy a videocamera, and leave it in a changing room and film people changing their clothes, well thats all well and good as long as I own the videocamera?

Many people are mortgaging their homes, they don't really own their houses yet, the banks do. Therefore its okay for the banks to wire up surveillance systems in your home without your knowledge? Or decide to knock down a few walls?

How about if you are leasing from an individual? I mean, its her house. Should she be allowed to come in a repaint the walls any color she wants in the middle of your lease?

Any credit cards in your wallet are, more than likely, not your property, but the official property of the bank or whoever issued them to you. And the owner may do what they wish with their property? They may install miniature voice recorders and record your private conversations and that would all be well and good because they own the credit cards?


Maybe you should take a moment and consider the implications of having contracts between owners and a users in a larger context. Especially if you are a voter - our system is barely functioning as it is.






Edit: Lest anyone skimming the thread thinks that the students signed up to be spied on, due to the excerpted quote above, here is the full sentence (bold added):

the technology today is new to a lot of generations with no real standards of proper use and protocal, i was at work earlier and taking with a very good mom, she was telling me her soon to be 15 yo daughter who has a cell phone for limited use (and her parents are very involved with this girl). she told me that under age boys( 13 to 18 ) have sent her full nude photo's of themselves and have texted her for sex, the devices at these kids have access to needs to be talked with to these kids maybe proper ediquite classes need to be taught at schools. i know its a parents responsiblity but something needs to be done letting kids know it is not proper behavior to do these things

uhm... hardly... *sigh*

$.02

If they were trying to locate stolen laptops, then they weren't spying. I don't see how they would really care what the students are doing outside of the school anyway. If they monitor what they are doing on the laptops, that's the schools right. If your work or school gives you a laptop it should only be used for work related to such. It's their property not yours.

That was a dumb *** no thinking comment. You cant spy on anyone no matter who owns the laptop.

And don't forget the schools SERVE us and our children. They don't govern anything. They need to do what there told not try to make there own laws. I'll be Damned if I'd go without a major law suite on them and their actions. Not with my child.

Have to agree with AngelArs here.

And as I stated in the other thread, if the parents are having issues with the thought of their kids being spied on, then they should kindly return the computers and buy their own kids the laptops.

The only mistake the school made was in not being clear about the remote activation to begine with.

Regarding the credit cards, if you read the fine print, it does say they own the cards and one has to turn them in if required. They are already tracking your purchases.

And in all honesty, the government owns ones land and house, no matter how long you pay on it. It's called eminent domain, and if they want it, you're just plain outta luck!

Beavis, you raise a serious issue and make a good point. There many aspects of the issue you raise - one of them is the fact that there is often a bit of a delay between the popularization of new technology and the adaptation of our culture and our laws to that new tech. You say its the parents responsibility - but many of these kids only have one overworked parent, who is barely able to provide parenting.

Totage, I edited your comment for emphasis:



While I don't completely agree as a generalization (because, in general, spying can still happen while trying to locate stolen goods), you may be right in this situation...IF they were using the camera to recover a stolen laptop.

It appears that the laptop in question was not stolen. As I understand it, the allegation that was made by the school official (for which photographic evidence was taken with the webcam) had nothing to do with stealing.

I hope no one confuses the school's effort to cover their @sses with policy statements with an objective and open discussion of what actually occurred.



So tell me, EquusDancer, what is it exactly that you agree with? Do you agree with this statement? "" If the school OWNS the laptops then they are free to do what they wish with them. ""

Or do you agree with something else he has said in another thread? Or are you dividing this discussion into 'two sides' and have 'chosen the pro-school side' so you agree with anything resembling a pro-school position?

Because, really, I'm sure that even AngelArs does not really agree with the idea that ownership of an object gives you free reign to do whatever you want with the object - even if you loan the object to others.



How very considerate you are of the lower class.



You are absolutely correct, and last night, when my friend John murdered a murderer, the only mistake he made was failing to press charges and go through a proper trial before allowing the state to kill him. The only mistake Bill made when he raped that girl was failing to get her permission first. The only mistake Alex made when he stole from the store was failing to ask if he could have it.

I think that you and I would agree that some actions might be acceptable when certain procedures are taken, and those same actions are totally wrong when those procedures are ignored.

But saying 'the only mistake they made was not following the proper procedure' is absurdly dismissive of the wrong-doing that has actually occurred. Their mistake was not 'failing to inform people'. Their mistake (if the allegations are true) is spying on people in their own homes



What is your point? It sounds like you are making my argument for me.



Um, yes. Yes, that is true. This is relevant how?

I was only quoting AngelArs comment here. I see no point in dragging another quote from another thread without stating that it is another thread I took it from. I do fully agree with "" If the school OWNS the laptops then they are free to do what they wish with them. "" Simple enough.

I don't always agree with everything school districts do, but I think they catch a lot of flack for the lack of parental involvement. The schools are between a rock and a hard place, and are attempting to do the best they can, especially since parents aren't getting and staying involved, and expecting more out of their kids then just a free daycare session during the day.

I personally don't loan things out, because I do feel that since I own that object, I have the right to expect it to be treated properly and with respect. I'd be very upset if I loaned my computer to someone and t came back with viruses, or porn or something totally unrelated to the reason it was being loaned.

Lower class - life's a b!tch. I fell in that class too. My folks didn't believe in letting us harrass neighbors into raising funds for the school. They'd go to the school, find out the cost, and if they could afford it, we got to do it. If not, that was rough. We survived.

Self-defense is totally unrelated. Rape and theft are not rape, nor theft if the person asked, and was granted permission. It is however, still rape and theft if they ignore being told no and do it anyway. Your facetious comment makes absolutely no sense here.

If a parent had signed paperwork stating they knew there was remote activation, then they cannot blame the school. If they chose not to read the fine print, or listen to the person telling them this, then they have whole other issues, and an apparent lack of brains. If the school did not inform the parents of this THEN the school is indeed in trouble.

One cannot visually spy on people if you close your laptop. Or if it is kept in the other room.

Regarding the credit cards, you said "Any credit cards in your wallet are, more than likely, not your property, but the official property of the bank or whoever issued them to you. And the owner may do what they wish with their property? They may install miniature voice recorders and record your private conversations and that would all be well and good because they own the credit cards? "

And I was agreeing. You can't complain to the credit card company about your privacy, when it's their card. If you have issues with it, turn the card back in and stop using it.

Simple.

I have a hard time with this. My parents, while they may have had a hard time with the technology updates, sat down and discussed stuff like this with us. They were always in the loop about the friends we dealt with, and the stuff we read, and the computer stuff we did. I understand times can be tough for parents, especially single, but that's not an excuse to not be aware of what your child is up to.

EquusDancer,

I truly appreciate the maturity and thoroughness of your reply. I am still baffled by your apparent position on this topic.

I don't know who owns our driver's licenses (do you?) but I suspect its the state.

How would you feel if the state installed microphones in our driver's licenses? Would that be a simple matter of "if you don't like it, don't use it?"

And what do you say to the person who leaves her video camera in a public restroom to record other users in a sate of undress? Is that wrong? If so, why?

If I come over to a dinner party at your house and leave *my* own mini-video camera on a bookshelf to spy on you - is that wrong? Why?

In my book, ownership does NOT give you a right to do whatever you want. Many people own guns. Does that mean they can kill people?

To be clear, my statements about murder, rape, and theft were to illustrate that one can ignore the real evil of an action by directing attention to a 'failure to follow a procedure' - which misses the point.

If "they" = the schools, then YES!

If you don't believe me then try taking the matter to the courts, and see what the JUDGE tells you about the laws in this country....

The same holds true for when your employer own the equipment, also ALREADY tried in the courts and guess what? ...the companies won! Same goes for phones that companies own. Thank you for playing along. Do not stand up until the ride comes to a complete stop.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/business/soa/How-your-boss-can-spy-on-you/0,139023166,120274450,00.htm

That's nice. Too bad your OPINION doesn't trump law.

Call any attorney in the country. They'll explain it to you.

The link you give discusses data on a company computer, and computers which are located at the workplace - which is therefore twice removed from the issue of spying on people in their homes.

Its hilarious to me that you actually think that ownership gives you the right to do whatever you want... I wonder how all those murders ended up in jail, who owned their own murder weapons.

Massagetrade,

The government owns our land. When they decide they want it, it becomes a case of eminent domain, and they may give you a supposed "fair payment" for it, but they are still essentially taking it. This particularly affects me, since there is still some issue with the Trans-Texas Corridor, and if it goes the way they want, our place is condemned and taken. I don't like it, but I am aware that it is always a possiblity.

A driver's license, IMO, is not a right that every automatically gets or should get. It's a priviledge. That works the same with a credit card. So, if the government and the credit card companies impose restrictions on it, you can either deal with it, or turn that priviledge back in and not use it.

Regarding guns, sorry, but that is what they are intended to do - kill people and animals. I don't see guns holding flower parties. Any person who scoffs at the thought is naive. The ownership of a gun is self-defense or for food (hopefully) but there is ALWAYS the possibility that it will be used to kill someone. To deny that, is to deny the purpose and intent of that gun. Or any other weapon, for that matter.

I was raised with a "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" lifestyle. This government was set up to protect individuals, but with the understanding that the many would be treated fairly as well. We've spiraled down into everyone is out for themselves, and screw each other. And it's hurting us, badly. The balance is messed up.

So, both with an outlook for the many and the few, a hidden video camera in a public place is wrong, as well as a private place that is not your own personal domain. If you wanted to set up a camera in your own home, more power to you, and while some might find it creepy, they couldn't really say much about it. But not in my home.

Did you also notice that it was 7 years old? Currently the law says that any property owned by a company, that said company has the right to know how their property is being used. If you don't like it then buy your OWN laptop

'nuff said.

Welcome to 2010

I could understand them having a tracking device as a GPS on the computers. But to have them set up in order to have a camera on them to spy on the person using the Laptop is way over board...........