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Topic: A question on killing
CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:50 PM

Cowboy wrote:

Jesus renounced nothing. Jesus fulfilled the torah and gave us a new covenant between man and God. And in the new covenant God instructed us not to seek revenge, not to judge another. But to leave that all up to Jesus.


Jesus could not possibly have given us a new covenant between man and God. Jesus was just a mortal man. He didn't have the power to speak for any God.


He was the only begotten child of God. He was the word in flesh. He was eternal. He had all the power to give us the new covenant, since that was the reason he came.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:50 PM
Cowboy wrote:

Matthew 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Again, Jesus specifically tells us to turn the other cheek of someone physically hits us.


No. Jesus was a Buddhist. They speak in parables, and Jesus clearly told his disciples that he speaks in parables too. You're taking things literally. But Jesus did not speak literally, he spoke in metaphors and parables. So when you take his words literally you do not understand.

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:53 PM

I would intelligently make a choice on what was the best thing to do. I would definitely not be judge and jury on them.
I know that I would be prepared to defend myself because chances are the need will arise.

Now if it came to them entering my home well I do believe in self defense.

No it is not my or anyone elses moral obligation to rid the world of these people.

If you are god fearing, you have to believe god wants them here on this planet or they wouldn't be here.


People have free will and do as they wish. Has nothing to do with God wanting them or not wanting them here. It is the person's choice. He didn't make them that way. We're not made to be a certain way. We grow to be the person we are mainly through influences in our lives, but it boils down to who we choose to be. God doesn't shape people in that way. It is done through our free will to do as we wish.

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:54 PM

Cowboy wrote:

Matthew 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Again, Jesus specifically tells us to turn the other cheek of someone physically hits us.


No. Jesus was a Buddhist. They speak in parables, and Jesus clearly told his disciples that he speaks in parables too. You're taking things literally. But Jesus did not speak literally, he spoke in metaphors and parables. So when you take his words literally you do not understand.


He spoke in parables so that you would understand what he was saying if you wished. He said it in parables that relate to the world so that you could relate if you wished.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:57 PM





thats pretty much what Afghanistan is like. and whatll happen to you is probably what happened to them, the bigger guns and better killers own the land. Why do you think we moved in. To kill those peeps and let the people rebuild their once thriving culture.


Is there really justified killing? That would be the same as justified thievery, justified raping, justified hurting of another.

Murder is murder, reasons can not justify murder and or "killing" ALL killing of another is murder. We do not have the right to say who lives or who doesn't. We didn't create them nor have anything to do with the creating of them, so why would we have the power to kill something we never created?



Killing in not justified unless your own life is in danger.


Exodus 22:2


"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.


But the theif may not have a weapon and his only concern may be with the 'material' things - would killing that theif then be wrong?


Possessions are part of the person. If a thief stole all of your wealth, you and your family could starve. Also, if the person is already breaking into your house, do you want to trust to his good conscience that he won't harm anyone in the process of stealing everything not nailed down?



I do not want to argue just like an answer.

Why is it you will use Exodus 22:1 which is part of the Law when you want to.. But the laws u do not like you say well that was done away. To me that is confusion. like a man who sleeps with his daughter is called confusion. Shalom..Miles

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:57 PM

Cowboy wrote:

Matthew 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Again, Jesus specifically tells us to turn the other cheek of someone physically hits us.


No. Jesus was a Buddhist. They speak in parables, and Jesus clearly told his disciples that he speaks in parables too. You're taking things literally. But Jesus did not speak literally, he spoke in metaphors and parables. So when you take his words literally you do not understand.


You mention Jesus speaking in parables like the referenced verse was a parable. How in any way could that have been a parable? And what exactly was he meaning by it then?

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 07:59 PM






thats pretty much what Afghanistan is like. and whatll happen to you is probably what happened to them, the bigger guns and better killers own the land. Why do you think we moved in. To kill those peeps and let the people rebuild their once thriving culture.


Is there really justified killing? That would be the same as justified thievery, justified raping, justified hurting of another.

Murder is murder, reasons can not justify murder and or "killing" ALL killing of another is murder. We do not have the right to say who lives or who doesn't. We didn't create them nor have anything to do with the creating of them, so why would we have the power to kill something we never created?



Killing in not justified unless your own life is in danger.


Exodus 22:2


"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.


But the theif may not have a weapon and his only concern may be with the 'material' things - would killing that theif then be wrong?


Possessions are part of the person. If a thief stole all of your wealth, you and your family could starve. Also, if the person is already breaking into your house, do you want to trust to his good conscience that he won't harm anyone in the process of stealing everything not nailed down?



I do not want to argue just like an answer.

Why is it you will use Exodus 22:1 which is part of the Law when you want to.. But the laws u do not like you say well that was done away. To me that is confusion. like a man who sleeps with his daughter is called confusion. Shalom..Miles


Exodus holds no more power to us. It's laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:07 PM







thats pretty much what Afghanistan is like. and whatll happen to you is probably what happened to them, the bigger guns and better killers own the land. Why do you think we moved in. To kill those peeps and let the people rebuild their once thriving culture.


Is there really justified killing? That would be the same as justified thievery, justified raping, justified hurting of another.

Murder is murder, reasons can not justify murder and or "killing" ALL killing of another is murder. We do not have the right to say who lives or who doesn't. We didn't create them nor have anything to do with the creating of them, so why would we have the power to kill something we never created?



Killing in not justified unless your own life is in danger.


Exodus 22:2


"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.


But the theif may not have a weapon and his only concern may be with the 'material' things - would killing that theif then be wrong?


Possessions are part of the person. If a thief stole all of your wealth, you and your family could starve. Also, if the person is already breaking into your house, do you want to trust to his good conscience that he won't harm anyone in the process of stealing everything not nailed down?



I do not want to argue just like an answer.

Why is it you will use Exodus 22:1 which is part of the Law when you want to.. But the laws u do not like you say well that was done away. To me that is confusion. like a man who sleeps with his daughter is called confusion. Shalom..Miles


Exodus holds no more power to us. It's laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished.


Yea i figured as much but apperently the Apostles did not.

Acts 15:19-21
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to Elohim, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
NKJV
Shalom..Miles

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:08 PM
Rev 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, Yahweh will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
NKJV

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:09 PM
Cowboy wrote:

You mention Jesus speaking in parables like the referenced verse was a parable. How in any way could that have been a parable? And what exactly was he meaning by it then?


I'm sorry Cowboy, but as long as you refuse to learn of things outside of the Bible you're never going to be able to understand anything beyond it. You really need to expand your knowledge base before it makes any sense to try to converse with you.

If you understood the philosophy of Buddhism everything would become crystal clear for you. Until then, you're just locking yourself in the very limited box of ancient Hebrew thinking.

I've been through both so I can see both sides of the looking glass, but you can only see one side of it. I can't help you with that. You need to get out of that box on your own.



CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:10 PM

Cowboy wrote:

You mention Jesus speaking in parables like the referenced verse was a parable. How in any way could that have been a parable? And what exactly was he meaning by it then?


I'm sorry Cowboy, but as long as you refuse to learn of things outside of the Bible you're never going to be able to understand anything beyond it. You really need to expand your knowledge base before it makes any sense to try to converse with you.

If you understood the philosophy of Buddhism everything would become crystal clear for you. Until then, you're just locking yourself in the very limited box of ancient Hebrew thinking.

I've been through both so I can see both sides of the looking glass, but you can only see one side of it. I can't help you with that. You need to get out of that box on your own.





That didn't answer my questions about the parable statement you made.

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:15 PM








thats pretty much what Afghanistan is like. and whatll happen to you is probably what happened to them, the bigger guns and better killers own the land. Why do you think we moved in. To kill those peeps and let the people rebuild their once thriving culture.


Is there really justified killing? That would be the same as justified thievery, justified raping, justified hurting of another.

Murder is murder, reasons can not justify murder and or "killing" ALL killing of another is murder. We do not have the right to say who lives or who doesn't. We didn't create them nor have anything to do with the creating of them, so why would we have the power to kill something we never created?



Killing in not justified unless your own life is in danger.


Exodus 22:2


"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.


But the theif may not have a weapon and his only concern may be with the 'material' things - would killing that theif then be wrong?


Possessions are part of the person. If a thief stole all of your wealth, you and your family could starve. Also, if the person is already breaking into your house, do you want to trust to his good conscience that he won't harm anyone in the process of stealing everything not nailed down?



I do not want to argue just like an answer.

Why is it you will use Exodus 22:1 which is part of the Law when you want to.. But the laws u do not like you say well that was done away. To me that is confusion. like a man who sleeps with his daughter is called confusion. Shalom..Miles


Exodus holds no more power to us. It's laws have been fulfilled, completed, finished.


Yea i figured as much but apperently the Apostles did not.

Acts 15:19-21
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to Elohim, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
NKJV
Shalom..Miles


Sounds like they agree to me.

Acts 15:19-21 (King James Version)

19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:17 PM

Rev 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, Yahweh will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
NKJV



Well we already know for a fact that these text are nowhere near perfectly preserved and there are many different versions of them. So it's impossible to know what has been added and what has been taken away.

In fact, we have the Torah, the Quan and the Bible. All of these text claim to be the "Word of God". So which one should we believe?

Clearly it's impossible to have a God who hates people who believe the wrong ones!

What kind of a dirty trick would that be for a God to play on his creation?

How can anyone seriously believe that such a confused and convoluted threatening religion can have any association with any thing divine or righteous.

It seems to me that the proof that it's nothing more than man-made myths is written all over it.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:21 PM
Cowboy wrote:

That didn't answer my questions about the parable statement you made.


I had already provided the answer to your question twice BEFORE you even asked it. Jesus was teaching people not to seek revenge when someone trespasses against them like the Old Testament had taught them to do. Jesus was renouncing the teachings of the Old Testament in spite of your refusal to accept this.

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:25 PM

Cowboy wrote:

That didn't answer my questions about the parable statement you made.


I had already provided the answer to your question twice BEFORE you even asked it. Jesus was teaching people not to seek revenge when someone trespasses against them like the Old Testament had taught them to do. Jesus was renouncing the teachings of the Old Testament in spite of your refusal to accept this.


Jesus renounced nothing. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized the old covenant and gave us a new one. Both have prophesies of fulfilment and Jesus fulfilled the old covenant. A covenant is only for a certain period of time and or till certain circumstances happen to complete them.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:35 PM
Edited by Milesoftheusa on Thu 12/23/10 08:41 PM


Rev 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, Yahweh will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
NKJV



Well we already know for a fact that these text are nowhere near perfectly preserved and there are many different versions of them. So it's impossible to know what has been added and what has been taken away.

In fact, we have the Torah, the Quan and the Bible. All of these text claim to be the "Word of God". So which one should we believe?

Clearly it's impossible to have a God who hates people who believe the wrong ones!

What kind of a dirty trick would that be for a God to play on his creation?

How can anyone seriously believe that such a confused and convoluted threatening religion can have any association with any thing divine or righteous.

It seems to me that the proof that it's nothing more than man-made myths is written all over it.



No it is not hard.

Yahshua said he was the word. Everything are examples of the Torah. when everyone in later years decided what was right and what was wrong. The torah they looked upon as something akin to history that they would pick and choose from.. Doing this thier was need to preserve the Torah.

So when everything in the rest of the scriptures from Joshua to revelations if it is not seen in the Torah then its time to look deeper.

The Koran allah is a play on words for Yahweh.

The fight has been since we can see Esau that the 1st born of who was Yahweh's children came into effect.

Ishmael the uncle of Esau and Isaac the father of Jacob ( Israel)

to see this just get a good map of the middle east. town after town has the poetic name of Yahweh in it. "Yah" Just look. Islam was not an enemy until Mohammad... when the Dome of the Rock is where he is said to of went to heaven. The Rock that is inside the Dome the Arab people claim Ishmael was to be sacraficed thier as Isaac is said to be. Both Abrahams sons. It is true that Ishmael was the 1st born son. but Abraham went against Yahweh when he took a gift from his wife Hagar. Yahweh had promiced Abraham would have a son from Sarah after her years of child birtha promice. Isaaac was that promice and thier has been friction ever since.. Blessings..Miles

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:39 PM


Cowboy wrote:

That didn't answer my questions about the parable statement you made.


I had already provided the answer to your question twice BEFORE you even asked it. Jesus was teaching people not to seek revenge when someone trespasses against them like the Old Testament had taught them to do. Jesus was renouncing the teachings of the Old Testament in spite of your refusal to accept this.


Jesus renounced nothing. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized the old covenant and gave us a new one. Both have prophesies of fulfilment and Jesus fulfilled the old covenant. A covenant is only for a certain period of time and or till certain circumstances happen to complete them.


Yahweh was married to Israel. the death of the testor releases this marraige and he is allowed to remarry. But it is still to the Jew 1st and then to the Gentile as in the law of brothers.

How do you think the marraige could take place unless the 1st husband had died.. Shalom..Miles

Milesoftheusa's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:47 PM


Rev 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, Yahweh will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
NKJV



Well we already know for a fact that these text are nowhere near perfectly preserved and there are many different versions of them. So it's impossible to know what has been added and what has been taken away.

In fact, we have the Torah, the Quan and the Bible. All of these text claim to be the "Word of God". So which one should we believe?

Clearly it's impossible to have a God who hates people who believe the wrong ones!

What kind of a dirty trick would that be for a God to play on his creation?

How can anyone seriously believe that such a confused and convoluted threatening religion can have any association with any thing divine or righteous.

It seems to me that the proof that it's nothing more than man-made myths is written all over it.


Here is an example that proves the scribes changed Yahshua's name. not untill 50 years ago did this get changed in newer versions yet we know that thier are still many hardliners who say that the kjv 1611 is the word perfect. yet this scripture in the NKJV makes since and is true. the KJV had to of transcribed jc for Yahshua as he had the same name as we know as Joshua the son of Nun.. Blessings..Miles

Heb 4:8

8 For if J-sus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
KJV


Heb 4:8

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
NKJV

Dragoness's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:48 PM


I would intelligently make a choice on what was the best thing to do. I would definitely not be judge and jury on them.
I know that I would be prepared to defend myself because chances are the need will arise.

Now if it came to them entering my home well I do believe in self defense.

No it is not my or anyone elses moral obligation to rid the world of these people.

If you are god fearing, you have to believe god wants them here on this planet or they wouldn't be here.


People have free will and do as they wish. Has nothing to do with God wanting them or not wanting them here. It is the person's choice. He didn't make them that way. We're not made to be a certain way. We grow to be the person we are mainly through influences in our lives, but it boils down to who we choose to be. God doesn't shape people in that way. It is done through our free will to do as we wish.


There is no free will if you believe in god. So that explanation doesn't work.

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 12/23/10 08:56 PM
Edited by CowboyGH on Thu 12/23/10 08:58 PM



I would intelligently make a choice on what was the best thing to do. I would definitely not be judge and jury on them.
I know that I would be prepared to defend myself because chances are the need will arise.

Now if it came to them entering my home well I do believe in self defense.

No it is not my or anyone elses moral obligation to rid the world of these people.

If you are god fearing, you have to believe god wants them here on this planet or they wouldn't be here.


People have free will and do as they wish. Has nothing to do with God wanting them or not wanting them here. It is the person's choice. He didn't make them that way. We're not made to be a certain way. We grow to be the person we are mainly through influences in our lives, but it boils down to who we choose to be. God doesn't shape people in that way. It is done through our free will to do as we wish.


There is no free will if you believe in god. So that explanation doesn't work.


Free will and God go hand in hand. That's what we'll be judged on, how we used our free will through our life. That is why he has given us commandments, for if we didn't have the ability not to do them, free will. We wouldn't need laws set out before us for we would be automatically obedient because of the lack of free will.

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