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| Topic: Rise in Atheism | |
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This is from a Christian site:
a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ |
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an example that illustrates atheism to be every bit as delusional as any religion. adherants to both lines of "thinking" make judicious use of the words "i believe."
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ a woman’s right to choose. I was reading this and this stuck out. This is a very strange comment. Women do choose or not choose, they have free will. This comment just struck me funny and thought I'd comment on it lol. |
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ This story is truly sad. A young man was deluded by some off the wall theory and will now live the rest of his life without the love and wisdom of Jesus Christ. A long time ago I heard a scientist (Who was christian) say "I will believe Christianity until it's proven wrong." That's my stance to. That way, I can't go wrong. |
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thinking 'outside the box' here
if a childs views change so drastically within one year of leaving home, they probably werent that strongly held in the first place I think we just live in a 'me' culture, so many good things came from the baby boomer generation and before, but consequences also happened, primarily feelings of egocentricm and entitlement more and more people were being raised by adults wanting their 'friendship' instead of adults wanting to guide them into responsible, secure, considerate adults. Love became something expressed with giving them whatever they want and making sure to never chastise or stigmatize them in any way. Then the media jumped on the bandwagon by catering to those attitudes of entitlement and egocentrism by reinforcing the 'glam' and 'coolness' of egocentricism and rudeness and disrespect so that it became seen as 'popular' so, in a culture that is changing so dramatically into one where we are all the center of our own personal universe, is there any wonder that people are a little quicker to disbelieve that the world is about something higher than their own immediate 'man described' environment,,,? Man is becoming his own God,,,that is not that surprising to me,,, |
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ So, he learned to think for himself, rather than blindly following what a religion tells him to believe. I don't see an issue here. |
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some prevalent philosophies of gen me
http://classact.prblogs.org/2007/06/01/10-characteristics-of-generation-me/ I hate that it always comes to the parents but they/we did drop the ball in many situations it is really true that the road to hell(figuratively, not literally) can be filled with good intentions the kids arent getting the balance of love, discipline, and responsibility at home that they once did,,,,plenty of cases of an excess of one or the other and an almost non existence of the rest though its just become more unbalanced and chaotic so it is harder for them to grasp onto anything that someone cant prove to them or which they cant experience with their own five senses....there is still a predominant 'faith' amongst us but it is going to diminish more and more if parents dont get on the job to raise up their children instead of just being their buddies,,, |
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ So, he learned to think for himself, rather than blindly following what a religion tells him to believe. I don't see an issue here. So true! And I bet this site isn't going back with a followup as to whether those students went back to their religious beliefs after a few years. I have one friend that's converts every 4 months or so to something else. |
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ This story is truly sad. A young man was deluded by some off the wall theory and will now live the rest of his life without the love and wisdom of Jesus Christ. A long time ago I heard a scientist (Who was christian) say "I will believe Christianity until it's proven wrong." That's my stance to. That way, I can't go wrong. Well, Christianity has been proven to be wrong in a myriad of ways. So perhaps the so-called "scientist" who told you that should have rephrased his personal bias and conviction and said, "I will believe Christianity until I'm open to accepting that it's already been proven wrong." By the way, does he also believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Zeus, Thor, UFOs, Ghosts, Sasquatch, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and so on and so forth? If he believes in everything that can't be proven to be false, then he must also believe in Wicca, Buddhism, Voodoo, you name it. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, The Mormons, Catholicism, etc. Why is he singling out "Christianity" to believe in without any proof? Did you even bother to ask him these things? |
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how was christianity proven wrong?
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how was christianity proven wrong? I have tons of them, but I'll just offer one very simple and obvious one here: Here's a very simple proof of why this religion is false as held out by orthodox Christianity. ~~~~~~ 1. This God is supposedly be 'righteous' and 'all-wise'. 2. This God hates and condemns everyone who refuses to believe in him even if their reasons for doing so are honest, sincere and well-intentioned. ~~~~~~~~~ Well, #2 is a blatant contradiction to #1. Thus this religion is already an obvious falsehood before we even bother to discuss it further. ~~~~~ How do you argue against this proof? You can either try to argue against #2 by claiming that "God hates no one" and that people condemn themselves by their own free will choice to "not believe" in this God. But that doesn't solve the problem or address the issue at all. On the contrary that is a totally ignorant response in and of itself that simply refuses to allow this God to be responsible for the conditions that he supposedly created. So the second, and more popular approach, that most Christians use when confronted with this is to avoid #2 altogether and instead try to attack #1 by claiming that my concepts of "righteousness" and "wisdom" may not be the same as God's idea of these concepts. Well, fine. If that's the case then it's utterly meaningless to speak of this God as being "all-righteous" and "all-wise" since his idea of what those concepts mean have absolutely no relationship to our human understanding of these concepts. In other words, this second approach amounts to nothing more than utterly meaningless mumbo jumbo just to avoid having to confess that these stories are indeed a blatant contradiction in terms. ~~~~~ The bottom line for me is that this proof stands as solid as a rock and no Christian has ever convinced me otherwise. These fables are necessarily false. They must be the made up lies of men because they simply are neither "righteous" nor "wise", as far as I'm concerned. So whilst I may be "agnostic" in terms of a spiritual essence to reality, I am not "agnostic" toward Christianity. As far as I'm concerned it's already been proven to be nothing more than "Hebrew Mythology", just as the fables of Zeus are accepted even by the Christians to be "Greek Mythology". ~~~~~ IMHO, Christianity has indeed been proven to be false without a shadow of a doubt. Of course, this very simple iron-clad proof is only one of many. |
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for a scientist, I am perplexed that you embrace the preceding extremely subjective standard of 'proof'
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This is from a Christian site: a letter from your 17-year old “Mom, dad, after my first semester at college, I have to tell you that I don’t believe in God anymore. Science has proven evolution to be true. The Bible is a book of fairy tales. There is no absolute right and wrong. I know this goes against your values, but I now believe in gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I don’t want to hurt you, but I have to be open and honest with you--I’m moving in with my girlfriend. This doesn’t change my love for you, and I hope you feel the same about me . . . .” A 2007 survey in the U.S. showed that the number of 18-25 year olds who were atheist, agnostic or nonreligious had increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20. [1] What do you say to him? This site will tell you. http://pulltheplugonatheism.com/ So, he learned to think for himself, rather than blindly following what a religion tells him to believe. I don't see an issue here. it's a she, not a he...just so you know |
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how was christianity proven wrong? I have tons of them, but I'll just offer one very simple and obvious one here: Here's a very simple proof of why this religion is false as held out by orthodox Christianity. ~~~~~~ 1. This God is supposedly be 'righteous' and 'all-wise'. 2. This God hates and condemns everyone who refuses to believe in him even if their reasons for doing so are honest, sincere and well-intentioned. ~~~~~~~~~ Well, #2 is a blatant contradiction to #1. Thus this religion is already an obvious falsehood before we even bother to discuss it further. ~~~~~ How do you argue against this proof? You can either try to argue against #2 by claiming that "God hates no one" and that people condemn themselves by their own free will choice to "not believe" in this God. But that doesn't solve the problem or address the issue at all. On the contrary that is a totally ignorant response in and of itself that simply refuses to allow this God to be responsible for the conditions that he supposedly created. So the second, and more popular approach, that most Christians use when confronted with this is to avoid #2 altogether and instead try to attack #1 by claiming that my concepts of "righteousness" and "wisdom" may not be the same as God's idea of these concepts. Well, fine. If that's the case then it's utterly meaningless to speak of this God as being "all-righteous" and "all-wise" since his idea of what those concepts mean have absolutely no relationship to our human understanding of these concepts. In other words, this second approach amounts to nothing more than utterly meaningless mumbo jumbo just to avoid having to confess that these stories are indeed a blatant contradiction in terms. ~~~~~ The bottom line for me is that this proof stands as solid as a rock and no Christian has ever convinced me otherwise. These fables are necessarily false. They must be the made up lies of men because they simply are neither "righteous" nor "wise", as far as I'm concerned. So whilst I may be "agnostic" in terms of a spiritual essence to reality, I am not "agnostic" toward Christianity. As far as I'm concerned it's already been proven to be nothing more than "Hebrew Mythology", just as the fables of Zeus are accepted even by the Christians to be "Greek Mythology". ~~~~~ IMHO, Christianity has indeed been proven to be false without a shadow of a doubt. Of course, this very simple iron-clad proof is only one of many. 1. This God is supposedly be 'righteous' and 'all-wise'. 2. This God hates and condemns everyone who refuses to believe in him even if their reasons for doing so are honest, sincere and well-intentioned. ~~~~~~~~~ Well, #2 is a blatant contradiction to #1. Thus this religion is already an obvious falsehood before we even bother to discuss it further. Now you've resorted to lying? God hates NO ONE. Not one person does he hate. God loves us all and is why he offers forgiveness for anything and everything if one truly means it and is willing to repent of that action. And there is no reason for not believing in God, there is no honest, sincere, or well-intended reason(s). There is no excuse for it and is why the judgment on such a matter is so severe. |
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how was christianity proven wrong? I have tons of them, but I'll just offer one very simple and obvious one here: Here's a very simple proof of why this religion is false as held out by orthodox Christianity. ~~~~~~ 1. This God is supposedly be 'righteous' and 'all-wise'. 2. This God hates and condemns everyone who refuses to believe in him even if their reasons for doing so are honest, sincere and well-intentioned. ~~~~~~~~~ Well, #2 is a blatant contradiction to #1. Thus this religion is already an obvious falsehood before we even bother to discuss it further. ~~~~~ How do you argue against this proof? You can either try to argue against #2 by claiming that "God hates no one" and that people condemn themselves by their own free will choice to "not believe" in this God. But that doesn't solve the problem or address the issue at all. On the contrary that is a totally ignorant response in and of itself that simply refuses to allow this God to be responsible for the conditions that he supposedly created. So the second, and more popular approach, that most Christians use when confronted with this is to avoid #2 altogether and instead try to attack #1 by claiming that my concepts of "righteousness" and "wisdom" may not be the same as God's idea of these concepts. Well, fine. If that's the case then it's utterly meaningless to speak of this God as being "all-righteous" and "all-wise" since his idea of what those concepts mean have absolutely no relationship to our human understanding of these concepts. In other words, this second approach amounts to nothing more than utterly meaningless mumbo jumbo just to avoid having to confess that these stories are indeed a blatant contradiction in terms. ~~~~~ The bottom line for me is that this proof stands as solid as a rock and no Christian has ever convinced me otherwise. These fables are necessarily false. They must be the made up lies of men because they simply are neither "righteous" nor "wise", as far as I'm concerned. So whilst I may be "agnostic" in terms of a spiritual essence to reality, I am not "agnostic" toward Christianity. As far as I'm concerned it's already been proven to be nothing more than "Hebrew Mythology", just as the fables of Zeus are accepted even by the Christians to be "Greek Mythology". ~~~~~ IMHO, Christianity has indeed been proven to be false without a shadow of a doubt. Of course, this very simple iron-clad proof is only one of many. 1. This God is supposedly be 'righteous' and 'all-wise'. 2. This God hates and condemns everyone who refuses to believe in him even if their reasons for doing so are honest, sincere and well-intentioned. ~~~~~~~~~ Well, #2 is a blatant contradiction to #1. Thus this religion is already an obvious falsehood before we even bother to discuss it further. Now you've resorted to lying? God hates NO ONE. Not one person does he hate. God loves us all and is why he offers forgiveness for anything and everything if one truly means it and is willing to repent of that action. And there is no reason for not believing in God, there is no honest, sincere, or well-intended reason(s). There is no excuse for it and is why the judgment on such a matter is so severe. god loves you enough to send you to hell if you don't believe in him, or worship him...most of the kings, queens and emperors in the past had the same philosophy...love me or die... |
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an example that illustrates ... I'm not sure the 'example' is authentic, this could very well have been written as a fictional letter intended to represent a good Christians parents fears for their child. atheism to be every bit as delusional as any religion. adherants to both lines of "thinking" make judicious use of the words "i believe." You are not speaking of atheism, but of strong and gnostic atheism. And I agree that strong atheists cannot be certain of their position. The funny thing is, all of the 'strong'est atheist I've met agree with you and I. When pressed, they all admit that they are truly, absolutely certain. |
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So, he learned to think for himself, rather than blindly following what a religion tells him to believe. I don't see an issue here.  Exactly! Separately, I think its great that there has been a rise in atheism! Amongst other benefits, this makes us less likely to get involved in a fundamentalist-motivated religious conflicts with other nations in the future. We just need to improve the mechanisms in our society (for theists and non-theists alike) for encouraging good morals in our children. You know - good morals including tolerance for people with different sexual orientations. |
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Cowboy wrote: Now you've resorted to lying? God hates NO ONE. Not one person does he hate. All you're saying here is that you don't believe it's hateful to cast someone into a state of everlasting punishment for not believing in absurd mythologies. God loves us all and is why he offers forgiveness for anything and everything if one truly means it and is willing to repent of that action. No one mentioned anything about asking for "forgiveness" or a need to "repent" for anything. We're talking about belief here. And nothing more than that. And there is no reason for not believing in God, there is no honest, sincere, or well-intended reason(s). There is no excuse for it and is why the judgment on such a matter is so severe. There are quite valid reasons for believing that there is no such thing as a conscious purposeful and righteous "God". (i.e. dastardly birth defects for one). The idea that a supposedly righteous God would 'create' people in such poor conditions and situations is itself an oxymoron and thus gives atheists and well-meaning people a "perfectly legitimate excuse" for not believing in such a God. So if the creators of this fictitious God hold out that there is no valid "excuse" for non-belief, then they are fools because clearly everyone has been handed such a perfectly valid excuse on a silver platter. This is just further proof that the stories are lies. It's just a religion that was created to support hateful religious bigotry as well as male-chauvinism. It's just one culture's way of using a 'god concept' to belittle everyone who refuses to cower down to their rules. Looking at it from that point of view makes perfect sense, thus all honest, sincere, and well-meaning people have several perfect excuses for not believing in these derogatory fables. Moreover, the Eastern Mystics offer a far wiser, more intelligent, and more beautiful picture of a creator. Thus for those who choose to believe in a creator it would make honest, sincere, and well-intentioned sense for them to choose a picture that at least portrays a God as being truly intelligent and wise, rather than in a picture that makes God out to be a male-chauvinistic jealous unrighteous fool who hates everyone who refuses to believe in him.  That's my personal view and I'm convinced that the religion has indeed been proven to be false and is beyond salvage. Not that I can think of an honest, sincere, or well-intentioned reason to even want to salvage such a hateful picture of a God. But even if a person wanted to salvage it I don't see how they even could. |
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Edited by
ShiningArmour
on
Wed 04/20/11 02:40 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Now you've resorted to lying? God hates NO ONE. Not one person does he hate. All you're saying here is that you don't believe it's hateful to cast someone into a state of everlasting punishment for not believing in absurd mythologies. God loves us all and is why he offers forgiveness for anything and everything if one truly means it and is willing to repent of that action. No one mentioned anything about asking for "forgiveness" or a need to "repent" for anything. We're talking about belief here. And nothing more than that. And there is no reason for not believing in God, there is no honest, sincere, or well-intended reason(s). There is no excuse for it and is why the judgment on such a matter is so severe. There are quite valid reasons for believing that there is no such thing as a conscious purposeful and righteous "God". (i.e. dastardly birth defects for one). The idea that a supposedly righteous God would 'create' people in such poor conditions and situations is itself an oxymoron and thus gives atheists and well-meaning people a "perfectly legitimate excuse" for not believing in such a God. So if the creators of this fictitious God hold out that there is no valid "excuse" for non-belief, then they are fools because clearly everyone has been handed such a perfectly valid excuse on a silver platter. This is just further proof that the stories are lies. It's just a religion that was created to support hateful religious bigotry as well as male-chauvinism. It's just one culture's way of using a 'god concept' to belittle everyone who refuses to cower down to their rules. Looking at it from that point of view makes perfect sense, thus all honest, sincere, and well-meaning people have several perfect excuses for not believing in these derogatory fables. Moreover, the Eastern Mystics offer a far wiser, more intelligent, and more beautiful picture of a creator. Thus for those who choose to believe in a creator it would make honest, sincere, and well-intentioned sense for them to choose a picture that at least portrays a God as being truly intelligent and wise, rather than in a picture that makes God out to be a male-chauvinistic jealous unrighteous fool who hates everyone who refuses to believe in him. That's my personal view and I'm convinced that the religion has indeed been proven to be false and is beyond salvage. Not that I can think of an honest, sincere, or well-intentioned reason to even want to salvage such a hateful picture of a God. But even if a person wanted to salvage it I don't see how they even could.  If God is perfect how could he "hate" "hate" is like as bad as murder. God is perfect. Therefor he cannot "Hate" The only reason people go to "Hell" is because they choose to. By the way they live. Everyone has a choice to follow or reject God. They can do this by believing in God and doing what he says, OR they can believe in eastern mystical folklore. They can put on the blinders and only believe what they see in front of their face. They can worship demonic spirits. Whatever they want! That's called free will. Now why can't everyone go to heaven? It's not because God hates them. It's because God hates sin and refuses to have it in heaven. That's all there is to it. Of course non believers will reject this because of pre conceived notions already put in place. Hence the path to truth is already blocked. 
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