Debtors prison was abolished. It does not exist.

it's not illegal to not have money, but to have money and not pay it is...

Prove it. Show me the law.

(Anyway, everyone has some money.... they have to live.)


Like I said, it is not a criminal offense. It is a civil case.

You cannot go to jail.

You can go to jail for writing a bad check though. But that is a criminal offense.

mightymoe,

If you seriously believe that not paying your bills is a criminal offense that you can go to jail for, site any case and site the law.

If you believe there is such a thing as "debtors prisons" show me one of them.

Prove your case.

In my case, I made the mistake of filing jointly with my husband. They didn't like his deductions and tried to claim he owed them money. If they could have proven he was trying to defraud them, he would have went to jail. They could not prove any such thing. He did not show up for their audit and they got pissed and somehow they got a judgement. He refused to pay them. They could not get him to pay so they came after me. We were divorced at that time. I laughed when they came to my door and told me that I owed the IRS 21 thousand dollars.

If there was a law that I had to pay that or that he had to pay that, don't you think they would have put us in jail?

There is no law. There are no "Debtors prisons."

If there were Debtor's prisons, this entire United States of America would be in prison.

Maybe we are. Maybe this is a prison.

why are you always asking me to prove something when you have yet to prove anything you've said?

you show some, i'll show some

Because you are making bald faced false statements and you need to be called on them.

Prove your assertions or admit that you are full of B.S.

What I am saying here is common knowledge, which I guess, is what you lack.

Prove your assertions.

Where are these debtor's prisons?

Where is the law that says if you have money and you owe a bill, you must pay it or go to jail?

I don't think there are enough jails in existence to house everyone who owes money.

The Cartel's Collection Agency
Is Better Known As The IRS
By J. Speer Williams
2-23-10

With the foul mixture of adjustable rate mortgages, low down payments, unqualified loans, and liar loans, where potential homebuyers could not even verify that they had jobs or adequate funds to buy a house, the private International Banking Cartel inflated their US housing bubble. Then, the Cartel violently burst their bloated, thin-walled, and ephemeral bladder of toxins, they had so carefully pumped with hype, lies, and wicked intentions. Now, the Cartel is delivering their coupe de grace on some defaulting home buyers; they are siccing their private collection agency, the IRS on many of the homeless and jobless of America.

Many beleaguered, debt-ridden, jobless Americans have lost, or are about to lose, what they had left of the great American Dream: owning their own home. Lending institutions, all over the US are foreclosing on our hopes and dreams for ourselves and children with malice aforethought. These premeditated crimes of the banksters will not, however, go unrewarded by the US government, with increased income taxes, sales and value-added taxes, banker bail-outs, and "stimulus" packages, all paid for by those who are living the American Nightmare - a dark dream of intense, inescapable fear, horror, and distress.

After losing their homes to the foreign controlled Banking Cartel, many Americans will be assaulted with unexpected income taxes: Enter the Banking Cartel's collection agency - the IRS.

With such stress from Cartel banks, and their IRS collection agents, some Americans have mentally snapped; and understandingly, many more may snap. Terry Hoskins, from Ohio, bulldozed his home, thus denying its full value to the bank that refused to work with him on a reasonable restructured payment plan. ( )

The IRS functions through fear; but, the Cartel's collection agency is pushing some Americans into madness. Joe Stack, of Austin, Texas, was apparently so thrust to the upper edge of a steep declivity into insanity, by the IRS, that he set fire to his home, thus leaving the Cartel a largely empty lot, littered with some burnt debris. Then, Mr. Stack decided to give his own pounds of flesh in exchange for some from those who collect money for their Cartel masters: He flew a light aircraft into an office building that housed some IRS offices. But soon many of us will have some idea of the frustration Messrs. Stack and Hoskins felt.

Jobless Americans, who lose their homes to bank foreclosures, may be in for yet a greater shock than losing their job and home, with something banks call a "deficiency judgment," which can haunt former home buyers for years. Such a "judgment" is the difference between what a home buyer owed on their mortgage, and what the bank sells the auctioned house for during a very depressed housing market.

A board-certified real estate attorney in West Palm Beach, FL, Richard Zaretsky said, "Once they [banks] have a judgment, they can pursue you anywhere. They can ask for financial records, have your wages garnished and, if you fail to respond, a judge can put you in jail."

--(for failure to respond- contempt of court)

In an attempt to save their credit ratings, and stay out of jail, some besieged home buyers, surrounded with aggressive predators, will allow real estate salespeople to talk them into doing "short sales." A short sale is a made-up name for lending institutions agreeing to selling de-faulted properties to qualified buyers, for usually far less than the mortgaged amounts, rather than foreclosing on them.

A short sale is potentially doubled-barrel trouble: Unless a lending institution releases a de-faulted borrower from any further financial obligation, they can pursue such a former home-buyer for years (usually 20 years in most states) for the difference in the original mortgage and the short sale selling price, plus mounting interest costs. But wait, the horror gets even more horrible.

If the bank discharges the debt, they will "kindly" provide the IRS, and the defaulted home buyer, a statement of earnings, called a 1099-C, which could be far worse than the bank hounding someone with a deficiency judgment for 20 years. Depending on the amount of the discharged debt, a person could be struck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxable income.

Please note, that thanks to our policy-makers in Washington, the issuance of a 1099-C is a statement of ordinary income, which precludes the favorable capital gains provisions, that are taxed at lower rates. The Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007 may, however, provide some assistance in such cases, but would require the help of an attorney ... if one can afford one.

If you are insolvent (your liabilities exceed the fair market value of your assets) there might not be a tax liability arising from a Form 1099-C, if you file a Form 982 and attach it to your Form 1099; but best to check with your accountant.

"Our" government has established such a 3rd-world police state, we all need accountants and lawyers to try to stay out of jail, with ever dwindling incomes to be able to afford such protection.

J. Speer-Williams

jsw4@mac.com

more insults? just prove something your babbling about, and we can go from there... you talk, i talk... you show proof, i'll show proof... but enough with the condescending insults already...

You are the one who has the burden of proof.
Show me the law that will put me in prison for not paying a bill if I have the money to pay it.

Now show me the Debtor's prisons.

Put up or shut up.

I don't have to Prove that debtor's prisons DON'T EXIST because that is trying to prove a negative.

It is also very common knowledge that they no longer exist. (They used to a long time ago.)

But you implied that you can go to jail for not paying a bill - if you have the money to pay that bill.

That is ridiculous and it is just not true. It is a bald faced false statement.

i'm not asking you to prove me wrong, i'm asking you to prove that taxation is illegal... that is what YOU started this whole thread about... when you can show me how taxation is illegal, i'll start proving to you about debtors prison and anything else you want.. so until then, you can just keep on with the insults, condensations, and the whole "put up or shut up" when you have put nothing on the table but your ridiculous claims...

had to edit for the 2 words 'AS USUAL' for the end here...

I did not actually say that "taxation is illegal." I said that income tax was and is a voluntary system.

Unfortunately, when the people running the asylum are all criminals, they will enforce only what they claim legal.

The constitutional amendment that supposedly gives congress the right to pass the federal tax laws contained in the Internal Revenue Code is amendment 16 which according to evidence suggests that the 16th Amendment was not legally ratified in 1913. It required 36 states to properly ratify it and it only had proper ratification by 27 states out of 48.

But as the founding fathers have done time and time again, they screwed us.

Here is the story of what they did to the poor man who discovered this evidence and brought it to light:

http://www.givemeliberty.org/features/taxes/19990709_xcdfr_is_income.htm

You can either deny the truth of it, or not, that is entirely up to you.

The entire story about the so-called "laws" passed by congress called "The Internal Revenue Code" while it may be true, does not make it legal. The 16th amendment was not properly ratified. That is the giant fraud.

But since they have convinced everyone it was, and is the law, and they enforce it, and repeatedly tell the people that it is the law, the people just accept it because they don't know what else they can do.

They tormented and jailed the man who discovered the fraud. His name was William J. Benson, author of a two-volume investigative report on the ratification of the 16th Amendment entitled "The Law That Never Was."

The entire income tax system in (most of?) the "west" runs by "lawful presumption". The deception depends on the presumptions made by both the Country and by the individual. In very literal terms the "law" with respect to you becomes what the country presumes about you. Whether or not you "get along" with your government or not depends on whether your presumptions are the same as the country's; If they are not, but you don't refute their presumptions, you will be classed as a "sovereign citizen, domestic terrorist, tax protestor, etc.

The whole crooked business arises from a misunderstanding between the individual and the country. If the misunderstanding can be cleared up with friendly, good faith negotiations between the parties, there should be no grief or problem at all...except that your tax freedom might leave the government open to criminal charges and/or a foreclosure on the bankruptcy that would cause the de facto government to fold up and not pay the creditors, which are the people of the country, not the banks.

It is quite literally the de facto government that owes the banks, not the people it tries to force to make the payments thru taxation, so all that really happens when the country goes belly up is that the final accounting will show either or both of provable fraud & conspiracy against the government and the banks it borrows from, and since the government uses the private estates (labour) of the people as security on the loans without the free consent of the people, it leaves itself open to charges of human trafficking & slavery. (It tries to maintain a plausible deniability by dealing in legal fictions called "strawmen", but since most people don't know about the strawmen, they create a joinder between themselves and their estates, so they are in very real terms, slaves.)

IMO, it's time to end this stupid game that Stefan Molyneux calls "human farming" and bring in a truly free society...a free republic, where the government governs the affairs of the people and not the people themselves.

Snippit from: The Underground economy.
Washington, take note.

Over the past year in particular, the public has become aware that many in Washington who advocate higher taxes and argue that everyone has a responsibility to pay taxes are themselves not complying with the tax laws and regulations.

When you have a secretary of the Treasury and the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee (the tax writing committee) accused of cheating on their taxes, it greatly undermines the moral authority of the tax collectors, making the common citizens feel like chumps and, hence, much more willing to try to legally avoid or illegally evade taxes themselves.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/new-underground-economy

Never mind.

Wesley Snipes



He was arrested and was faced up to 16 years in prison. This is a man with enough funds to hire the best tax lawyers around. If income taxes were illegal, he wouldn't have paid. But, he did.

Yes, he tried the 'Freeman on the Land' defence and it blew up in his face.

Well, we all know why that is the case. I suppose this vacuous comment proves your point?

Let me clarify. It was as an example of hyperbole for a small group of Senior English students under my tutelage. I took the liberty of appropriating it anyway. Thank you.