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| Topic: Preaching, discussion, or argument? | |
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Choice of what to believe is free but the consequence is inevitable.Wish you well sure glad you call it Freedom!  Others would call it Catch-22!  Some Freedom in:"You either believe in God(Whatever The Preacher Tells you),or he will punish the crap out of you"!  |
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you either decide not to put the gun to your head,, or play Russian roulette
screaming it is is 'unfair' that you will die if the bullet goes off,, doesn't change the reality of action and consequence and choice |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Wed 10/30/13 02:04 AM
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you either decide not to put the gun to your head,, or play Russian roulette screaming it is is 'unfair' that you will die if the bullet goes off,, doesn't change the reality of action and consequence and choice I couldn't have put it better!
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If you are serious let me recommend a book by stormer non-beliver by the name of Josh McDowell. Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
Faith is difficult thing to define, it is hope in a promise not fulfilled. An interesting thing is that in Spanish hope and wait are the same root word,, "espero ". I attended Ministry School yet don't find myself qualified to answer most questions from adamant non-belivers. The book I recommended is available at most libraries and possibly on kindle/nook. I do enjoy or discussions because you make me think and search. I can't prove quantitavely that God exiss. The same goes for Love. |
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Edited by
bibarnes
on
Fri 11/08/13 09:45 AM
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interesting question it occurs to me that because something is legal though, doesn't make it mandatory its legal to smoke, yet I don't, I don't know that church, but following the lead of Christ , I wouldn't imagine such a thing would not be frowned upon , even if our mortal flesh and blood government did decide to make it 'legal' Well, as you know, the old Testament does not follow the lead of Christ. So when a preacher asks, "What does the Bible say?" and he does not exclude the Old Testament, I have to wonder if he is following the lead of Christ by including the Old Testament. my understanding is the old testament is before Christ and therefore cannot be following his teaching but the old testament, meant for the chosen people, was fulfilled upon Christs return when he eliminated the chosen status, and the new testament became the law John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. OK that said I will add that in other places in the NT. Christ said "I am the Word." Christ has never not existed nor has the Holy Spirit. Given that claim from Christ the OT does follow Jesus. Do I understand all this? Not completely but something deep inside speaks to me and says it is true. I have the freedom to speak and act on my beliefs just as all others do. It is not my intention to "cram" anything down anybody's throat. This forum is geared towards Christianity and by default Judaism. Like it or not the two are linked. Jesus is a Jew. |
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when will people realize the traits of respect or mutual agreement don't equate to being 'told how to think' ?? there is not a church I have attended which doesn't have bible study time for those questions people may have should someone disrupt a card reading, spell casting, or other occasion with questions? there is a time and place, there is nothing that should be particularly disturbing or new about that fact What does my post have to do with card readings? (Those are one on one two way conversations, like therapy.) Specifically, I am referring to people here on mingle who will preach the gospel (according to them) but will not discuss or debate the reasoning of what they are preaching, and comparing it to a preacher on Sunday standing behind a pulpit preaching to a crowd. He does not want to discuss anything, he just wants to influence people to agree with him. Its why I don't go to church. "Bible Study" is a better approach, but all is still subject to the interpretation of the Church or the preacher in charge. If you don't agree with them or him, you are free to go to another church or start your own church. That is why there are so many different denominations. So preachers who say, "It's my way or the highway" are the cause of so much separation of people and religions. I agree, prechers who say its any way but the bibles way, or Gods way contribute to separation doesn't that lend itself to separation too? There's still a problem there, as Christians, no matter what denomination you subscribe to, the Bible is treated as the ULTIMATE authority on right and wrong....you cannot question it or challenge it without it coming on you as not having enough faith or whatever way you wish to put it. If that doesn't limit discussion and debate I don't know what does. How can you freely talk about the validity of something when you HAVE to agree ahead of time that what you're challenging is true as written or you are wrong? You can't. No that is not true at all. You just do not understand who they are who who is? Christians? Christian is a term non believers called them. kind of like what you may like to call us and we say huh that sounds good we will call ourselves Christians Acts 11:25-26 25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch NKJV Antioch were not believers. This is like what you all call believers and other names. The Way is closer to what the people /believers called themselves John 14:6-7 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." NIV He is the WAY the TRUTH and THE LIFE. Yahshua never said he was the Christ u could say anointed on. But Yahshua said himself he was THE WAY. Their have been groups who have called them this yet they seemed to have passed somewhat. bad religion. So would are the People on earth they are THe Way The Truth and THE LIFE. They also preach this as Prophecy has said EliYah must come. They will proclaim not only this but also the for runner to Yahshua's coming back and this WAY will be hated by all most all. Luke 4:18-19 18 "The Spirit of Yahweh is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of Yahweh's favor." NIV John taught Repentance the new EliYah will preach compassion, will preach to the poor and will pray or provide thoughs who they can to get medical care. This is the WAY of Yahshua. I am a Yahwists. It means Yahweh's Wisdom. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Into days world most people who are serious will find the WAY as the original language is their and not that hard to study. Knowledge comes from questioning. from having to go through... Believers know they will have to be killed asa witness to the world. Matt 5:10 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. NKJV Have to have a pretty strong in your faith to be willing to be killed for your faith. Rev 6:9-11 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying,"How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. NKJV Many Believers will be killed and they know why they were killed. Christian in my self is an insult but used to it. I am a Yahwists because we do question and each of us prove the scriptures to ourselves not just because the preacher said so. Most find us as the Holy Spirit leads them and they see more and more what the world teaches is a LIE |
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Love is the way, the truth and the life.
LOVE. |
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Paul addressed that in one of his letters and I am paraphrasing here. "I am permitted to all things but, all things are not profitable." I am trying to find it with no luck. Probably about 2amI'll wake and say "That's it" then go back to sleep and forget again.
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So many people who post here who want to preach or "spread the gospel" (according to them) have said that they do not want to have a discussion or debate about what they spew as truth. This is why I don't go to church. The preacher stands up there on his pulpit or stage and preaches what he wants or interprets to a somewhat captive audience and there is no discussion, no debate etc. If anyone dares to question the preacher they are viewed as disruptive or argumentative. Sometimes even "anti-God." How dare they question God or the Bible. News flash, that preacher is not God, and the Bible is used by hundreds of sects and religions who are at war with each other. I will question all of it. When are people going to come into their own power and start thinking for themselves and stop letting religious leaders on pulpits tell them how to think and believe? When? This is a "Christian forum". What did you expect to find? We are certainly not going to be extolling the tenets of Islam, or Hindu or atheism. I am perfectly willing to discuss questios and if I don't no the answer (too many times for a Ministry School Graduate) I will say so and try to find a suitable answer, or sent you in a direction to get that answer. Arguing is fruitless. When I meet someone who says, "You can't make me a believer." I agree, it ain't my job. Doesn't change what I know to be the truth. If someone doesn't believe in gravity they are still going to get hurt when they fall off a 10ft ledge on their head. Yes, I did say "know to be the truth." It took me a long time and a lot of research to realize this. We are not an accident. There is too much empirical evidence that gets swept under the rug but is still out there, to not believe. |
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Choice of what to believe is free but the consequence is inevitable.Wish you well sure glad you call it Freedom! Others would call it Catch-22! Some Freedom in:"You either believe in God(Whatever The Preacher Tells you),or he will punish the crap out of you"! God does not punish. You punish yourself. If you are drowning and I throw you a green life preserver and you don't like green and ignore it and drown. I did not drown you, you let yourself drown. God is the same way, He gave us a life preserver. Grab it and live or say I want a different color and die. |
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when will people realize the traits of respect or mutual agreement don't equate to being 'told how to think' ?? there is not a church I have attended which doesn't have bible study time for those questions people may have should someone disrupt a card reading, spell casting, or other occasion with questions? there is a time and place, there is nothing that should be particularly disturbing or new about that fact What does my post have to do with card readings? (Those are one on one two way conversations, like therapy.) Specifically, I am referring to people here on mingle who will preach the gospel (according to them) but will not discuss or debate the reasoning of what they are preaching, and comparing it to a preacher on Sunday standing behind a pulpit preaching to a crowd. He does not want to discuss anything, he just wants to influence people to agree with him. Its why I don't go to church. "Bible Study" is a better approach, but all is still subject to the interpretation of the Church or the preacher in charge. If you don't agree with them or him, you are free to go to another church or start your own church. That is why there are so many different denominations. So preachers who say, "It's my way or the highway" are the cause of so much separation of people and religions. ************************ Most of the differences in the protestant denominations lie in the sacraments. Should we have wine or grape juice? Should we baptize infants or adults? Should we ban dancing and alcohol? The one common thread that ties us all together (like it or not) is our faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the only path to eternal life. All the rest is window dressing. I expect to see many people from different denominations when I die and the differences we had previously will not even be remembered. *************************** I agree, prechers who say its any way but the bibles way, or Gods way contribute to separation doesn't that lend itself to separation too? There's still a problem there, as Christians, no matter what denomination you subscribe to, the Bible is treated as the ULTIMATE authority on right and wrong....you cannot question it or challenge it without it coming on you as not having enough faith or whatever way you wish to put it. If that doesn't limit discussion and debate I don't know what does. How can you freely talk about the validity of something when you HAVE to agree ahead of time that what you're challenging is true as written or you are wrong? You can't. No that is not true at all. You just do not understand who they are who who is? Christians? Christian is a term non believers called them. kind of like what you may like to call us and we say huh that sounds good we will call ourselves Christians Acts 11:25-26 25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch NKJV Antioch were not believers. This is like what you all call believers and other names. The Way is closer to what the people /believers called themselves John 14:6-7 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." NIV He is the WAY the TRUTH and THE LIFE. Yahshua never said he was the Christ u could say anointed on. But Yahshua said himself he was THE WAY. Their have been groups who have called them this yet they seemed to have passed somewhat. bad religion. So would are the People on earth they are THe Way The Truth and THE LIFE. They also preach this as Prophecy has said EliYah must come. They will proclaim not only this but also the for runner to Yahshua's coming back and this WAY will be hated by all most all. Luke 4:18-19 18 "The Spirit of Yahweh is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of Yahweh's favor." NIV John taught Repentance the new EliYah will preach compassion, will preach to the poor and will pray or provide thoughs who they can to get medical care. This is the WAY of Yahshua. I am a Yahwists. It means Yahweh's Wisdom. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Into days world most people who are serious will find the WAY as the original language is their and not that hard to study. Knowledge comes from questioning. from having to go through... Believers know they will have to be killed asa witness to the world. Matt 5:10 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. NKJV Have to have a pretty strong in your faith to be willing to be killed for your faith. Rev 6:9-11 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying,"How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. NKJV Many Believers will be killed and they know why they were killed. Christian in my self is an insult but used to it. I am a Yahwists because we do question and each of us prove the scriptures to ourselves not just because the preacher said so. Most find us as the Holy Spirit leads them and they see more and more what the world teaches is a LIE |
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If you are serious let me recommend a book by stormer non-beliver by the name of Josh McDowell. Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Faith is difficult thing to define, it is hope in a promise not fulfilled. An interesting thing is that in Spanish hope and wait are the same root word,, "espero ". I attended Ministry School yet don't find myself qualified to answer most questions from adamant non-belivers. The book I recommended is available at most libraries and possibly on kindle/nook. I do enjoy or discussions because you make me think and search. I can't prove quantitavely that God exiss. The same goes for Love. I meant to say Former. You would think that after 20+ years programming computers I could touch type but I can't. I have to look at the key board. If I look up I freeze. Looking down my fingers move fairly fast. |
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