Topic: Relax
TBRich's photo
Tue 10/28/14 07:09 AM
Why Do Women Guess Wrong About Men's Perception of Beauty?

Considering how much time we spend thinking about the opposite sex and their desires, we're awful at predicting them.

October 20, 2014 |

My husband likes to squeeze onto what I’ve been taught to call my “muffin top,” the bit of “extra” flesh just above my hips. Recently, he planted a hand on it, squeezed and made a desirous grunting noise that made me think he might eat me alive. “Baby, no!” I protested, batting his hand away. “Don’t squeeze my fat.” His face softened. “But I love it. I love this juicy little oyster,” he said, referencing the tender, most delicious part of a chicken. “It’s the best.”

Funny, I thought it was the worst.

This isn’t just a case of my particular insecurities and my husband’s sexual idiosyncrasies. Studies have shown that straight women overestimate the importance of thinness in heterosexual men’s perception of female beauty. That is to say, women think men prefer ladies much thinner — and “oyster”-less — than they actually do.

It started with a study in 1985, which had men and women use a set of figure drawings to indicate “their current figure, their ideal figure, the figure that they felt would be most attractive to the opposite sex, and the opposite sex figure to which they would be most attracted.” They found that “women thought men would like women thinner than men reported they like.” Similarly, men “thought women would like a heavier stature [in men] than females reported they like.” In other words, both sexes were wrong about what was attractive to the opposite sex — but this misperception only hurt women. That’s because men, unlike women, chose “current, ideal and most attractive” figures that were “almost identical.” The researchers wrote, ”Overall, men’s perceptions serve to keep them satisfied with their figures, whereas women’s perceptions place pressure on them to lose weight.”

Three years later, the same research team found that “mothers and daughters believed that men (of their own generation) prefer much thinner women than these men actually prefer.”

This discrepancy has also attracted the attention of pseudo-scientific surveys. A headline in the Daily Mail captured it well, “Men love Kim Kardashian’s curves while women want Emma Watson’s slim hips: Infographic shows the sexes have VERY different ideas about the body beautiful.” The emphasis isn’t always on the figure. In 2011, the media went nuts over a study commissioned by a beauty retailer (ehem), which found differences between men’s and women’s perceptions of the ideal female face.

These findings make headlines because they’re surprising: Given the enormous industry around self-improvement, shouldn’t we have an accurate sense of what the opposite sex wants? It also seems to go against what evolutionary psychologists like to call “mate selection theory,” which suggests that women should have an accurate perception of what men find attractive, so as to judge their relative “mate value” (which is such a depressingly dehumanizing term, isn’t it?).

Psychologist David Buss, author of “The Evolution of Desire,” tells me, ”Why women are a bit off in what they think men want is a weird modern phenomenon,” he told me. “My speculation is that it is distorted by media images of repeated exposure to ultra-thin female models that have even been photoshopped to make them look thinner than they really are.”

It is possible to explain in evolutionary terms, though. “One ‘input’ into women’s mating psychology is rival women in their ‘social environment,’” he said. “Ancestrally, of course, women would not have been exposed to hundreds of images of these ultra-thin women; small-group living meant that women had perhaps a dozen or two other women of reproductive age that would have effective same-sex mating rivals.” He speculates that “the thinness oddity” began with “the notion that clothes on models ‘hang better’ if the models are thin.” He explains, “Once the models started to get thin, this provided weird, modern, novel input that hijacked women’s sense of who their effective mating rivals were.”

That is to say, “If women perceive their competition to be multitudes of thin models, or their psychology tricks them into thinking that these are their effective rivals, then that could cause this female misperception of what men find attractive.”

There’s another element here, which is the whole “women dress for other women” thing. A 1986 study reported, “For some women, the anticipated reactions of same-sex peers may be of greater importance in their pursuits of slimness than are the anticipated reactions of male peers.” Interestingly, research has shown that women also overestimate the thinness of female peers’ sense of the ideal body. Buss adds that “women compete not just to attract men but also for a position in women’s status hierarchies.” So, it isn’t all about the guys.

Even if straight women could accurately predict what most hetero men find attractive, it would only be true for the average man — and who wants “average,” anyway? For that matter, who wants to live in a world where we are no more than our evolutionarily defined mate value?

There’s evidence to back up Buss’s theory of media brainwashing. Earlier this year, a study found that women’s perception of female beauty varied depending on the images they were exposed to beforehand. Women who were exposed to photos of attractive plus-size models before being surveyed chose a higher BMI as ideal than those who were exposed to attractive “lightweight” models. Men’s perceptions, on the other hand, were not affected by what they were exposed to prior to being surveyed. Simple acts, like publishing plus-size models in advertisements, could actually change women’s bodily ideal — and, as a consequence, move their perception of straight male desire closer to reality. In that case, everybody wins, right?

Well, everyone except advertisers who want to maintain an unrealistic ideal to which women can strive via purchasing an endless array of products.

Tracy Clark-Flory is a staff writer at Salon. Follow @tracyclarkflory on Twitter and Facebook

navygirl's photo
Tue 10/28/14 09:19 AM
Because when a man says to you " I can't date you as I am used to dating prettier women", then there is no wrong guess of perception. Or when he cranes his neck to look at another woman when he is with you; that tells me he doesn't think much of your looks. Or when he dumps you for a younger prettier woman; it doesn't do much for your self esteem. Men can make women feel very unattractive and I know that first hand.

Moonlitgemini's photo
Tue 10/28/14 11:06 AM
As woman, we should be assertive and yes even though men look and it can effect how we feel, we need to remember it's part of their nature...what matters is that they spend the day and nights with you.

I think ....when a man is not truly happy with what he has...then he is bound to let his eye wander, and he lets his mind drift to what could be...I don't think it has as much to do with the woman he is with as much as it has to do with what is going on with him as a whole.

I understand where your coming from..been there and heard all the stories as to why a man can look and it does not mean anything..but experience has taught me, a secure woman is a happy woman, and so is her man.

no photo
Tue 10/28/14 11:54 AM
Why Do Women Guess Wrong About Men's Perception of Beauty?

Because most of what any individual person is going to be attracted to is beyond their conscious control. To manipulate or understand.

Because most people want to simply accept their conventional wisdom and opinion rather than actually research the answer. Which is readily available but not popular on google searches because it's not accepted conventional wisdom so it doesn't receive as many clicks bringing it to the top of the page.

So they "guess."

And "guessing" is an attempt to force it into something understood, and therefore controllable.

When people "guess" then they have crappy and incomplete information.

When people have crappy and incomplete information they fill in the missing information with their insecurities, fears, and desires.

It's why communication is so important to relationships.
So there is less guessing, therefore less fear, insecurity, and unrealistic expectations in place of actual feedback and information.

So at best this article is simply highlighting that the author has crappy communication in her/his relationship.

I mean
My husband likes to squeeze onto...my muffin top...
squeezed and made a desirous grunting noise that made me think he might eat me alive...I thought it (muffin top) was the worst... I 'love it I love this juicy little oyster,' he said..."

They are MARRIED. Long relationship
He has squeezed her muffin top more than once. He "likes" to squeeze it. She's aware of this.
She is very self conscious about it.
He communicates desire for her about it.
So he never stopped after her communication of "disgust" over her fat being grabbed.
She never stopped feeling insecure even though he desires her after handling it.

....That's pretty sucky communication for a MARRIAGE relationship.



no photo
Tue 10/28/14 12:06 PM
Because most people want to simply accept their conventional wisdom and opinion rather than actually research the answer. Which is readily available but not popular on google searches because it's not accepted conventional wisdom so it doesn't receive as many clicks bringing it to the top of the page.



LOL laugh

Are you saying Google has all the answers to perceptions?

Complete horsechit! Meh!



no photo
Tue 10/28/14 12:11 PM

Because most people want to simply accept their conventional wisdom and opinion rather than actually research the answer. Which is readily available but not popular on google searches because it's not accepted conventional wisdom so it doesn't receive as many clicks bringing it to the top of the page.



LOL laugh

Are you saying Google has all the answers to perceptions?

Complete horsechit! Meh!





Ciretom will not get back to you shortly.

no photo
Tue 10/28/14 12:12 PM


Because most people want to simply accept their conventional wisdom and opinion rather than actually research the answer. Which is readily available but not popular on google searches because it's not accepted conventional wisdom so it doesn't receive as many clicks bringing it to the top of the page.



LOL laugh

Are you saying Google has all the answers to perceptions?

Complete horsechit! Meh!





Ciretom will not get back to you shortly.


tears

navygirl's photo
Tue 10/28/14 12:23 PM
Edited by navygirl on Tue 10/28/14 12:32 PM

As woman, we should be assertive and yes even though men look and it can effect how we feel, we need to remember it's part of their nature...what matters is that they spend the day and nights with you.

I think ....when a man is not truly happy with what he has...then he is bound to let his eye wander, and he lets his mind drift to what could be...I don't think it has as much to do with the woman he is with as much as it has to do with what is going on with him as a whole.

I understand where your coming from..been there and heard all the stories as to why a man can look and it does not mean anything..but experience has taught me, a secure woman is a happy woman, and so is her man.


Sorry not buying into the crap that it is their nature. It's rude and very poor manners. To me; it says a man doesn't think I am worthy of his attention or doesn't find me attractive if he needs to gawk at another woman. I don't care if he does it but not when I am with him. I am a secure woman but that doesn't mean a man has the right to treat me that way. When I talk to anyone; they have my undivided attention and don't gawk at anyone else while being in their company. Its all about respect for the other person. Sorry reading crap like that makes me glad to be and stay single.

no photo
Tue 10/28/14 03:01 PM

Because when a man says to you " I can't date you as I am used to dating prettier women", then there is no wrong guess of perception. Or when he cranes his neck to look at another woman when he is with you; that tells me he doesn't think much of your looks. Or when he dumps you for a younger prettier woman; it doesn't do much for your self esteem. Men can make women feel very unattractive and I know that first hand.



Any man who would treat a hottie like you that way has definitely got problems.


no photo
Tue 10/28/14 03:11 PM
If you squeeze my fat too roughly, I'm going to bruise. :tongue:

motowndowntown's photo
Tue 10/28/14 04:45 PM
Some skinny azz anorexic woman isn't gonna keep warm on a winter night when the furnace quits.

SparklingCrystal 💖💎's photo
Tue 10/28/14 05:10 PM
The most sexy woman I've ever known was huge .. I actually envied her at the time .. She always had younger partners, danged good looking ones at that

Women status hierarchy .. yes .. I do believe that doesn't help .. Women can be cruel to one another

As for the rest .. my own survey taught me that.. just present the boobs right, and Bob's your uncle :tongue: shades

And gawking .. indeed not very nice .. as if we don't see great looking guys .. I agree that you cannot always help it, but you can be subtle about it.

navygirl's photo
Tue 10/28/14 11:50 PM
Edited by navygirl on Tue 10/28/14 11:54 PM


Because when a man says to you " I can't date you as I am used to dating prettier women", then there is no wrong guess of perception. Or when he cranes his neck to look at another woman when he is with you; that tells me he doesn't think much of your looks. Or when he dumps you for a younger prettier woman; it doesn't do much for your self esteem. Men can make women feel very unattractive and I know that first hand.



Any man who would treat a hottie like you that way has definitely got problems.




You are kind to say that to an old gal like me. flowerforyou