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| Topic: Gender roles in society. | |
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen.  maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Please, do tell me more about your breeding habits.. Me!  ...You're the one going on and on about how unfair society, government and men are to brood mares, not me....
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Well said Leigh!! But if I was you I won't waist my time with her...She seems like a nice lady but also offends men in general, she seems frustrated for some reason. Is too bad she has children and probably will end up being just like her if she doesn't get professional help. Do it while you can Estelle79, because those kids of yours deserve to have "Good role model, believe me. Good luck dear! |
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Please, do tell me more about your breeding habits.. Me! ...You're the one going on and on about how unfair society, government and men are to brood mares, not me.... Wait a minute, when did horses come into the equation? No, no. I was asking how GENDER EQUALITY LAWS could be enforced so that men would be more likely to share the duties involved in creating a civilized family life. |
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Please, do tell me more about your breeding habits.. Me! ...You're the one going on and on about how unfair society, government and men are to brood mares, not me.... Wait a minute, when did horses come into the equation? No, no. I was asking how GENDER EQUALITY LAWS could be enforced so that men would be more likely to share the duties involved in creating a civilized family life. |
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Please, do tell me more about your breeding habits.. Me! ...You're the one going on and on about how unfair society, government and men are to brood mares, not me.... Wait a minute, when did horses come into the equation? No, no. I was asking how GENDER EQUALITY LAWS could be enforced so that men would be more likely to share the duties involved in creating a civilized family life. Culture, values, up bringing. Like said above, can't "enforce" in the home. You can't change people. |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Fri 02/13/15 04:03 PM
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Well said Leigh!! But if I was you I won't waist my time with her...She seems like a nice lady but also offends men in general, she seems frustrated for some reason. Is too bad she has children and probably will end up being just like her if she doesn't get professional help. Do it while you can Estelle79, because those kids of yours deserve to have "Good role model, believe me. Good luck dear!  You're probably right Maria, but I keep thinking about the kids....
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No, no. I was asking how GENDER EQUALITY LAWS could be enforced so that men would be more likely to share the duties involved in creating a civilized family life. Let's be honest here, Estelle - it's not just men that have problems: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/12/utah-mom-guilty-killing-6-newborns/23326401/ |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 02/13/15 05:19 PM
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I already provide for myself, as well as taking care of my property and needs. That's because I don't have another option at this point. However, when my wife enters the equation, does she not become equally responsible? What if my job couldn't support an entire family (as it currently couldn't)? Do I still get locked up for trying, but failing? Does my wife then have to raise our child on her own, WITHOUT my modest contribution, because what little I gave wasn't enough? That seems totally fair to all parties concerned. Or would it make more sense to share responsibility for providing AND housekeeping, since 1) we're both capable of it, 2) we'd probably both be used to it by that point, 3) marriage is a partnership (at least so I've always believed), and that implies an equitable share of work, and 4) it means more income than what I would earn alone, thus presumably making things easier on the whole family. Does this mean that when my wife becomes pregnant, and we have offspring, I'm going to force my wife to go to work and not take any time off, as well as keep up with her share of the housework? Hell no, and I think that's a ridiculous situation. While she's pregnant, I'll gladly pick up the slack when it comes to housekeeping (sort of like I already do), and if it turns out my job pays better, or offers better benefits, or is otherwise the more rewarding job, then I will keep it regardless of whether she goes back to work sooner or later. HOWEVER. I'd expect the same kind of consideration if, for example, I had to temporarily stop working because of a disability, or if we decide her job is more rewarding, and I stay home and take care of the house and children. As long as the work is divvied up fairly between one provider and one home-maker, I'm okay with that kind of "fairness". I'm just not totally sold on the idea that the former HAS to be male, and the latter HAS to be female. whatever one was going to do when they were together , should continue after they are apart the standard for 'trying' would be hard to measure I don't believe its trying just because a man sends gifts once a season(my personal case),,,,,that no more than family friends do,, and not enough for a DAD if they are working there should be regular support, whether married or not,, they should register for licenseas separated from their kids, like with a drivers license,,,,the support should be linked to that license if they make more kids BEFORE settling up with the support of the ones they have,,,, they should lose their freedom just as much as the mother who has to do it all alone has,,, I believe it is BEST when the woman nurtures and supports, and the man provides and protects , particulary if children are involved if there are no children, they should both be doing whatever they did when they met |
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I already provide for myself, as well as taking care of my property and needs. That's because I don't have another option at this point. However, when my wife enters the equation, does she not become equally responsible? What if my job couldn't support an entire family (as it currently couldn't)? Do I still get locked up for trying, but failing? Does my wife then have to raise our child on her own, WITHOUT my modest contribution, because what little I gave wasn't enough? That seems totally fair to all parties concerned. Or would it make more sense to share responsibility for providing AND housekeeping, since 1) we're both capable of it, 2) we'd probably both be used to it by that point, 3) marriage is a partnership (at least so I've always believed), and that implies an equitable share of work, and 4) it means more income than what I would earn alone, thus presumably making things easier on the whole family. Does this mean that when my wife becomes pregnant, and we have offspring, I'm going to force my wife to go to work and not take any time off, as well as keep up with her share of the housework? Hell no, and I think that's a ridiculous situation. While she's pregnant, I'll gladly pick up the slack when it comes to housekeeping (sort of like I already do), and if it turns out my job pays better, or offers better benefits, or is otherwise the more rewarding job, then I will keep it regardless of whether she goes back to work sooner or later. HOWEVER. I'd expect the same kind of consideration if, for example, I had to temporarily stop working because of a disability, or if we decide her job is more rewarding, and I stay home and take care of the house and children. As long as the work is divvied up fairly between one provider and one home-maker, I'm okay with that kind of "fairness". I'm just not totally sold on the idea that the former HAS to be male, and the latter HAS to be female. whatever one was going to do when they were together , should continue after they are apart the standard for 'trying' would be hard to measure I don't believe its trying just because a man sends gifts once a season(my personal case),,,,,that no more than family friends do,, and not enough for a DAD if they are working there should be regular support, whether married or not,, they should register for licenseas separated from their kids, like with a drivers license,,,,the support should be linked to that license if they make more kids BEFORE settling up with the support of the ones they have,,,, they should lose their freedom just as much as the mother who has to do it all alone has,,, Whatever was going on when they were together is over after they part  ...Why don't you single mothers get this?...The only thing that "should" continue is one or both of you need to care for and support the children that BOTH of you made....
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To me this is scary when nobody knows anymore. why even have a relationship then? Its like Love, is it real or fake? No wonder we have high percentages of divorces. sorry off topic. I am just a concerned citizen. maybe there are no replies because no-one is sure anymore. the subject might be too much of a hot potato.. Not a hot potato at all, it's just that the very term gender roles is pass�...Women's suffrage, the Equal Rights Amendment, birth control, financial independence and more impact the way in which couples share the responsibilities of cohabitation...Raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are no longer his or hers, they are shared responsibilities determined by each couple's unique set of circumstances...It's called equality and it works... :-) Gender roles may be passe in theory. Now let's talk about reality.. You said raising children, providing financial support, and homemaking are shared responsibilities there's one small problem with that, equality cannot be enforced at home. So, how does it work again? It works like this...Love cannot be forced...If you want a man to share the responsibilities of raising children, providing financial support and keeping a home, breed with someone who loves, trusts and respects you...Breed with someone you love, trust and respect...Breed with a man who has confidence in your ability to do everything you are 'demanding' of him...Breed with someone who is committed to being a husband and father...You act like giving birth is a job that requires compensation...How sad for you and your family... Well said Leigh!! But if I was you I won't waist my time with her...She seems like a nice lady but also offends men in general, she seems frustrated for some reason. Is too bad she has children and probably will end up being just like her if she doesn't get professional help. Do it while you can Estelle79, because those kids of yours deserve to have "Good role model, believe me. Good luck dear! You're probably right Maria, but I keep thinking about the kids.... I know Leigh I feel the same way about the kids  ...who knows they probably they have been neglected.  Hey Estelle I just wonder why do you deleted your profile picture!! |
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I agree that it is and will always be natural for women to be the caregivers and men to be the providers. It could be a good thing that women are now allowed to earn money because men have a history of financial abuse towards women. However, the only way that women can help with child support money is if men do their share...otherwise women are left to stay home and live on welfare. So, this equal right thing is not a reality. Not at home and not outside of home.
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I believe the roles are defined by the two people involved, its up to them how they interact. Two thumbs up for Chuck 
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 02/13/15 06:46 PM
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the day women hitting men makes them as much an outcast as men hitting women
Ill believe 'equality' is the goal we are different and we can acknowledge it when it suits us to not be so 'equal' |
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The government is the people, and it's not my children it's all children. If we valued them and mothers (or could be the father, I'm open minded) it would not seem so crazy. We are getting affordable healthcare for everyone, because healthy people means healthy economy. I think there would be a benefit to women and children in society. Also, it would free up the jobs that could go to more men. I just looked at your profile.....Now I understand...I guess I should have looked sooner...  ...Take care Estelle! leigh i went and looked and i'm still missing it even with all her threads |
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now to reply on topic, yes i'm a bit old fashioned. i prefer to get the check and open doors. i prefer to trust her feelings and taste in decor. but i don't see how acknowledging the differences in gender denigrtes one or the other
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Edited by
Estelle79
on
Sat 02/14/15 06:28 AM
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now to reply on topic, yes i'm a bit old fashioned. i prefer to get the check and open doors. i prefer to trust her feelings and taste in decor. but i don't see how acknowledging the differences in gender denigrtes one or the other I agree however I believe the gender roles have become much more of a burden on women than ever. When women got the right to earn a paycheck this is around the time that households needed the extra paycheck. So, it's not as though women are working to gain independence. Women are working out of the need to put food on the table. The thing is, where does hat really leave women because other than that things have remained traditional at home. So, I think in order for women to be equal, there needs to be an infrastructure that helps women manage. Some helpful possibilities would be maternity leave, government funded housekeeping, government funded childcare, affordable grocery shopping delivery (just some ideas). Having options would help women manage the impossible demands that have been put upon the female gender. We live in a modern age where women work too, so why can't we make the mundane more streamlined efficient and modern? I think it's a need even not a choice. Society is crumbling because women can't do it all. |
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All I can say is...let the World be, we can't cover the sun with one hand. Be positive and take good care of your love ones so your children can see as a "Good role model" because we need to make a difference in ourselves before we point fingers to others. When you start pointing one finger to others look at your hand and see how many of your fingers are pointing at you!!!
Happy Valentine's Day to everybody! Smile and be kind to others.  
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I already provide for myself, as well as taking care of my property and needs. That's because I don't have another option at this point. However, when my wife enters the equation, does she not become equally responsible? What if my job couldn't support an entire family (as it currently couldn't)? Do I still get locked up for trying, but failing? Does my wife then have to raise our child on her own, WITHOUT my modest contribution, because what little I gave wasn't enough? That seems totally fair to all parties concerned. Or would it make more sense to share responsibility for providing AND housekeeping, since 1) we're both capable of it, 2) we'd probably both be used to it by that point, 3) marriage is a partnership (at least so I've always believed), and that implies an equitable share of work, and 4) it means more income than what I would earn alone, thus presumably making things easier on the whole family. Does this mean that when my wife becomes pregnant, and we have offspring, I'm going to force my wife to go to work and not take any time off, as well as keep up with her share of the housework? Hell no, and I think that's a ridiculous situation. While she's pregnant, I'll gladly pick up the slack when it comes to housekeeping (sort of like I already do), and if it turns out my job pays better, or offers better benefits, or is otherwise the more rewarding job, then I will keep it regardless of whether she goes back to work sooner or later. HOWEVER. I'd expect the same kind of consideration if, for example, I had to temporarily stop working because of a disability, or if we decide her job is more rewarding, and I stay home and take care of the house and children. As long as the work is divvied up fairly between one provider and one home-maker, I'm okay with that kind of "fairness". I'm just not totally sold on the idea that the former HAS to be male, and the latter HAS to be female. whatever one was going to do when they were together , should continue after they are apart the standard for 'trying' would be hard to measure I don't believe its trying just because a man sends gifts once a season(my personal case),,,,,that no more than family friends do,, and not enough for a DAD if they are working there should be regular support, whether married or not,, they should register for licenseas separated from their kids, like with a drivers license,,,,the support should be linked to that license if they make more kids BEFORE settling up with the support of the ones they have,,,, they should lose their freedom just as much as the mother who has to do it all alone has,,, Whatever was going on when they were together is over after they part ...Why don't you single mothers get this?...The only thing that "should" continue is one or both of you need to care for and support the children that BOTH of you made.... no or because we are over doesn't end BOTH of our role as parent to the child WE made BOTH should still be legally responsible for caring for the children,, or face stiff penalties for leaving the other to do it alone,,, |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Sat 02/14/15 03:08 PM
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I already provide for myself, as well as taking care of my property and needs. That's because I don't have another option at this point. However, when my wife enters the equation, does she not become equally responsible? What if my job couldn't support an entire family (as it currently couldn't)? Do I still get locked up for trying, but failing? Does my wife then have to raise our child on her own, WITHOUT my modest contribution, because what little I gave wasn't enough? That seems totally fair to all parties concerned. Or would it make more sense to share responsibility for providing AND housekeeping, since 1) we're both capable of it, 2) we'd probably both be used to it by that point, 3) marriage is a partnership (at least so I've always believed), and that implies an equitable share of work, and 4) it means more income than what I would earn alone, thus presumably making things easier on the whole family. Does this mean that when my wife becomes pregnant, and we have offspring, I'm going to force my wife to go to work and not take any time off, as well as keep up with her share of the housework? Hell no, and I think that's a ridiculous situation. While she's pregnant, I'll gladly pick up the slack when it comes to housekeeping (sort of like I already do), and if it turns out my job pays better, or offers better benefits, or is otherwise the more rewarding job, then I will keep it regardless of whether she goes back to work sooner or later. HOWEVER. I'd expect the same kind of consideration if, for example, I had to temporarily stop working because of a disability, or if we decide her job is more rewarding, and I stay home and take care of the house and children. As long as the work is divvied up fairly between one provider and one home-maker, I'm okay with that kind of "fairness". I'm just not totally sold on the idea that the former HAS to be male, and the latter HAS to be female. whatever one was going to do when they were together , should continue after they are apart the standard for 'trying' would be hard to measure I don't believe its trying just because a man sends gifts once a season(my personal case),,,,,that no more than family friends do,, and not enough for a DAD if they are working there should be regular support, whether married or not,, they should register for licenseas separated from their kids, like with a drivers license,,,,the support should be linked to that license if they make more kids BEFORE settling up with the support of the ones they have,,,, they should lose their freedom just as much as the mother who has to do it all alone has,,, Whatever was going on when they were together is over after they part ...Why don't you single mothers get this?...The only thing that "should" continue is one or both of you need to care for and support the children that BOTH of you made.... no or because we are over doesn't end BOTH of our role as parent to the child WE made BOTH should still be legally responsible for caring for the children,, or face stiff penalties for leaving the other to do it alone,,, If women marry the man (or men) they breed with and divorce him later, he IS legally responsible for child support...Those who don't bother to marry before breeding can hire an attorney and take his azz to court if he refuses to help support his child...That is, of course, after paternity is proven.... |
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I already provide for myself, as well as taking care of my property and needs. That's because I don't have another option at this point. However, when my wife enters the equation, does she not become equally responsible? What if my job couldn't support an entire family (as it currently couldn't)? Do I still get locked up for trying, but failing? Does my wife then have to raise our child on her own, WITHOUT my modest contribution, because what little I gave wasn't enough? That seems totally fair to all parties concerned. Or would it make more sense to share responsibility for providing AND housekeeping, since 1) we're both capable of it, 2) we'd probably both be used to it by that point, 3) marriage is a partnership (at least so I've always believed), and that implies an equitable share of work, and 4) it means more income than what I would earn alone, thus presumably making things easier on the whole family. Does this mean that when my wife becomes pregnant, and we have offspring, I'm going to force my wife to go to work and not take any time off, as well as keep up with her share of the housework? Hell no, and I think that's a ridiculous situation. While she's pregnant, I'll gladly pick up the slack when it comes to housekeeping (sort of like I already do), and if it turns out my job pays better, or offers better benefits, or is otherwise the more rewarding job, then I will keep it regardless of whether she goes back to work sooner or later. HOWEVER. I'd expect the same kind of consideration if, for example, I had to temporarily stop working because of a disability, or if we decide her job is more rewarding, and I stay home and take care of the house and children. As long as the work is divvied up fairly between one provider and one home-maker, I'm okay with that kind of "fairness". I'm just not totally sold on the idea that the former HAS to be male, and the latter HAS to be female. whatever one was going to do when they were together , should continue after they are apart the standard for 'trying' would be hard to measure I don't believe its trying just because a man sends gifts once a season(my personal case),,,,,that no more than family friends do,, and not enough for a DAD if they are working there should be regular support, whether married or not,, they should register for licenseas separated from their kids, like with a drivers license,,,,the support should be linked to that license if they make more kids BEFORE settling up with the support of the ones they have,,,, they should lose their freedom just as much as the mother who has to do it all alone has,,, Whatever was going on when they were together is over after they part ...Why don't you single mothers get this?...The only thing that "should" continue is one or both of you need to care for and support the children that BOTH of you made.... no or because we are over doesn't end BOTH of our role as parent to the child WE made BOTH should still be legally responsible for caring for the children,, or face stiff penalties for leaving the other to do it alone,,, If women marry the man (or men) they breed with and divorce him later, he IS legally responsible for child support...Those who don't bother to marry before breeding can hire an attorney and take his azz to court if he refuses to help support his child...That is, of course, after paternity is proven.... What if the state cannot collect child support from him (he could be a foreigner and leave the country, he could go to prison, he could be below the poverty line, he could have had an accident and died, he could just not pay). So, why not just give mothers paid leave and other assistance such as childcare and college education if the father can't be found? Why if we live have gender equality, does the state force women and children to be under the financial control of men? |
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