Topic: The difference between ISIS and Muslims
msharmony's photo
Thu 04/14/16 07:50 PM



Saying you're a Christian, but not living like a Christian, doesn't make you a Christian.
Same goes for all other religions. Though IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah claim to be participants of the Islam, I can assure you they are not. Because any human who claims to be above God and judge, kill, demolish, terrorize another human being, country or such is not a religious person/group. Its a s simple as that.

It is funny and amazing to read how times have changed.
In the civil war in Ireland, between the protestants and the catholics, never once did I read (as a child) IRA "name of religion" terrorists. They were just called terrorists.
But now since other terrorist groups say to kill and punish in the name of, we call them by their religion.
Shameful.
A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions to spread more chaos and divided hatred, simply because it's not the religious (christian, catholic, islamic, buddist, hinduist, jewish, atheist) thing to do!

Ya'll need to do some soulsearching, some world traveling and such! Don't buy into the hype the news, the papers, the groups of terror, your government is trying to sell you. Educate yourself and search for the knowledge and truth yourself!

Oh, and before you start calling me names of come out your mouth:
Im the only Christian in my Islamic family and we are all living happily ever after with each other! They've accepted the path that I've chosen and I love being a Christian.


I only wish people would unite around such loving hearts in every religion as the example, instead of insistence on focusing on the hateful and deadly

flowerforyou



the "loving hearts" aren't the ones that are chopping people heads off...



I know, though they are lumped in as if they are

LUNG1954's photo
Sat 04/16/16 12:04 AM

IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah claim to be participants of the Islam, I can assure you they are not. Because any human who claims to be above God and judge, kill, demolish, terrorize another human being, country or such is not a religious person/group. Its a s simple as that.

A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions to spread more chaos and divided hatred, simply because it's not the religious (christian, catholic, islamic, buddist, hinduist, jewish, atheist) thing to do!

Ya'll need to do some soulsearching, some world traveling and such! Don't buy into the hype the news, the papers, the groups of terror, your government is trying to sell you. Educate yourself and search for the knowledge and truth yourself!


Christian terrorist group
The early modern period in Britain saw religious conflict resulting from the Reformation and the introduction of Protestant state churches.The beginnings of modern terrorism can be traced back to England and the Gunpowder Plot of 1605.
Orthodox Christian movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, which have been characterized as anti-semitic and fascist, respectively, were responsible for involvement in the Bucharest pogrom, and for political murders during the 1930s.
After the American Civil War of 1861–1865, members of the Democratic Party (United States) organized the Protestant-led Ku Klux Klan (KKK) organization and began engaging in arson, beatings, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, whipping and intimidation via such means as cross burning. They targeted African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.
Vehemently anti-Catholic, Klan members had an explicitly Protestant Christian terrorist ideology, basing their beliefs in part on a "religious foundation" in Protestant Christianity. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time onward, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible". From 1915 onward, Klansmen conducted cross-burnings not only to intimidate targets, but also to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the ritual of lighting crosses was steeped in Christian symbolism, including prayer and singing hymns. Within Christianity the Klan directed hostilities against Catholics. Modern Klan organizations remain associated with acts of domestic terrorism in the US.
Contemporary
Mark Juergensmeyer, a former president of the American Academy of Religion, has argued that there has been a global rise in religious nationalism after the Cold War due to a post-colonial collapse of confidence in Western models of nationalism and the rise of globalization. Juergensmeyer categorizes contemporary Christian terrorists as being a part of "religious activists from Algeria to Idaho, who have come to hate secular governments with an almost transcendent passion and dream of revolutionary changes that will establish a godly social order in the rubble of what the citizens of most secular societies regard as modern, egalitarian democracies."
Central African Republic
Christian militia groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest. In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.
India
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribes people in Tripura to Christianity.
Nagaland
The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is also a Christian
Naga nationalist Militant group operating in North India. The main aim of the organization is to establish a sovereign Christian state, "Nagalim" unifying all the areas inhabited by the Naga people in Northeast India and Burma. The organization's slogan is "Nagaland for Christ". Its manifesto is based on the principle of Socialism for economic development and a Baptist Christian religious outlook ‘Nagaland for Christ’.
Assam
In 2009, several newspapers in Assam reported that about fifteen armed Hmar militants, members of the Manmasi National Christian Army, tried to force Hindu residents of Bhuvan Pahar, Assam to convert to Christianity
Lebanon
Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.
Uganda
The Lord's Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves. A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism, it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.
United States
Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology. Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ. Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as on non-Christians.
After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".
In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.
In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.
In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York. Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with "500 rounds of ammunition" that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying "if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds."
Global ideologies
Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology which asserts that North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God's chosen people. It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Army of God, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. It has been cited as an influence on a number of terrorist attacks around the world, including the 2002 Soweto bombings. These groups are estimated to have 2,000 members in the United States, and an unknown number in Canada and the rest of the British Commonwealth. Due to the promotion of Christian Identity doctrines through radio and later the Internet, an additional 50,000 unaffiliated individuals are thought to hold Christian Identity beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Historical
6 modern-day Christian terrorist groups our media conveniently ignores
They don't get the coverage of ISIS or Boko Haram, but organizations like "The Army of God" are no less dangerous
Below are six extreme Christianist groups that have shown their capacity for violence and fanaticism.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_modern_day_christian_terrorist_groups_our_media_conveniently_ignores_partner/
WATCH: Christian Extremists Mass Behead Muslims in Africa
Published 12:49 pm EDT, December 20, 2015 Updated 8:37 am EDT, December 22, 2015 25 Comments By Sam Prince
Christian terrorism is a bigger threat to U.S. freedom than Islamic extremism
November 27, 2015 by Dan Arel 205
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/christian-terrorism-is-a-bigger-threat-to-u-s-freedom-than-islamic-extremism/#sthash.6uzImohV.dpuf




Frankk1950's photo
Sat 04/16/16 02:34 AM
Lung1954,you have endorsed the comments of elle 381 which unless I am mistaken state that the atrocities committed by IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah and by terrorist groups in general,regardless of their claimed religious affiliations are purely the actions of terrorists.She asks people to do their own research (which she has failed to do on the Irish question) and not listen to the propaganda trotted out by governments,newspapers and other groups with hateful agendas,although how the ordinary citizen can do this eludes me.You then proceed to list the actions of dozens of minority groups,many,I am sure most people never heard of.Is this not the anththesis of what you have just endorsed ?

Conrad_73's photo
Sat 04/16/16 05:25 AM


IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah claim to be participants of the Islam, I can assure you they are not. Because any human who claims to be above God and judge, kill, demolish, terrorize another human being, country or such is not a religious person/group. Its a s simple as that.

A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions to spread more chaos and divided hatred, simply because it's not the religious (christian, catholic, islamic, buddist, hinduist, jewish, atheist) thing to do!

Ya'll need to do some soulsearching, some world traveling and such! Don't buy into the hype the news, the papers, the groups of terror, your government is trying to sell you. Educate yourself and search for the knowledge and truth yourself!


Christian terrorist group
The early modern period in Britain saw religious conflict resulting from the Reformation and the introduction of Protestant state churches.The beginnings of modern terrorism can be traced back to England and the Gunpowder Plot of 1605.
Orthodox Christian movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, which have been characterized as anti-semitic and fascist, respectively, were responsible for involvement in the Bucharest pogrom, and for political murders during the 1930s.
After the American Civil War of 1861–1865, members of the Democratic Party (United States) organized the Protestant-led Ku Klux Klan (KKK) organization and began engaging in arson, beatings, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, whipping and intimidation via such means as cross burning. They targeted African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.
Vehemently anti-Catholic, Klan members had an explicitly Protestant Christian terrorist ideology, basing their beliefs in part on a "religious foundation" in Protestant Christianity. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time onward, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible". From 1915 onward, Klansmen conducted cross-burnings not only to intimidate targets, but also to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the ritual of lighting crosses was steeped in Christian symbolism, including prayer and singing hymns. Within Christianity the Klan directed hostilities against Catholics. Modern Klan organizations remain associated with acts of domestic terrorism in the US.
Contemporary
Mark Juergensmeyer, a former president of the American Academy of Religion, has argued that there has been a global rise in religious nationalism after the Cold War due to a post-colonial collapse of confidence in Western models of nationalism and the rise of globalization. Juergensmeyer categorizes contemporary Christian terrorists as being a part of "religious activists from Algeria to Idaho, who have come to hate secular governments with an almost transcendent passion and dream of revolutionary changes that will establish a godly social order in the rubble of what the citizens of most secular societies regard as modern, egalitarian democracies."
Central African Republic
Christian militia groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest. In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.
India
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribes people in Tripura to Christianity.
Nagaland
The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is also a Christian
Naga nationalist Militant group operating in North India. The main aim of the organization is to establish a sovereign Christian state, "Nagalim" unifying all the areas inhabited by the Naga people in Northeast India and Burma. The organization's slogan is "Nagaland for Christ". Its manifesto is based on the principle of Socialism for economic development and a Baptist Christian religious outlook ‘Nagaland for Christ’.
Assam
In 2009, several newspapers in Assam reported that about fifteen armed Hmar militants, members of the Manmasi National Christian Army, tried to force Hindu residents of Bhuvan Pahar, Assam to convert to Christianity
Lebanon
Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.
Uganda
The Lord's Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves. A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism, it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.
United States
Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology. Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ. Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as on non-Christians.
After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".
In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.
In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.
In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York. Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with "500 rounds of ammunition" that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying "if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds."
Global ideologies
Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology which asserts that North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God's chosen people. It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Army of God, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. It has been cited as an influence on a number of terrorist attacks around the world, including the 2002 Soweto bombings. These groups are estimated to have 2,000 members in the United States, and an unknown number in Canada and the rest of the British Commonwealth. Due to the promotion of Christian Identity doctrines through radio and later the Internet, an additional 50,000 unaffiliated individuals are thought to hold Christian Identity beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Historical
6 modern-day Christian terrorist groups our media conveniently ignores
They don't get the coverage of ISIS or Boko Haram, but organizations like "The Army of God" are no less dangerous
Below are six extreme Christianist groups that have shown their capacity for violence and fanaticism.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_modern_day_christian_terrorist_groups_our_media_conveniently_ignores_partner/
WATCH: Christian Extremists Mass Behead Muslims in Africa
Published 12:49 pm EDT, December 20, 2015 Updated 8:37 am EDT, December 22, 2015 25 Comments By Sam Prince
Christian terrorism is a bigger threat to U.S. freedom than Islamic extremism
November 27, 2015 by Dan Arel 205
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/christian-terrorism-is-a-bigger-threat-to-u-s-freedom-than-islamic-extremism/#sthash.6uzImohV.dpuf





still trying to convince that it is Rain what I am feeling on my Leg,Lung?laugh

LUNG1954's photo
Mon 04/18/16 09:38 PM

Lung1954,you have endorsed the comments of elle 381 which unless I am mistaken state that the atrocities committed by IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah and by terrorist groups in general,regardless of their claimed religious affiliations are purely the actions of terrorists.She asks people to do their own research (which she has failed to do on the Irish question) and not listen to the propaganda trotted out by governments,newspapers and other groups with hateful agendas,although how the ordinary citizen can do this eludes me.You then proceed to list the actions of dozens of minority groups,many,I am sure most people never heard of.Is this not the anththesis of what you have just endorsed ?


elle381 said;
Because any human who claims to be above God and judge, kill, demolish, terrorize another human being, country or such is not a religious person/group…
But now since other terrorist groups say to kill and punish in the name of, we call them by their religion.
Shameful…
A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions to spread more chaos and divided hatred, simply because it's not the religious (christian, catholic, islamic, buddist, hinduist, jewish, atheist) thing to do!

I agree with her and listed groups of Christian terrorists to support her idea.



isaac_dede's photo
Mon 04/18/16 10:24 PM
Lung,

I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?

Will you actually say the word

"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?

Frankk1950's photo
Tue 04/19/16 12:20 AM


Lung1954,you have endorsed the comments of elle 381 which unless I am mistaken state that the atrocities committed by IS/ISIS/Hezbollah/Taliban/AlQaidah and by terrorist groups in general,regardless of their claimed religious affiliations are purely the actions of terrorists.She asks people to do their own research (which she has failed to do on the Irish question) and not listen to the propaganda trotted out by governments,newspapers and other groups with hateful agendas,although how the ordinary citizen can do this eludes me.You then proceed to list the actions of dozens of minority groups,many,I am sure most people never heard of.Is this not the anththesis of what you have just endorsed ?


elle381 said;
Because any human who claims to be above God and judge, kill, demolish, terrorize another human being, country or such is not a religious person/group…
But now since other terrorist groups say to kill and punish in the name of, we call them by their religion.
Shameful…
A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions to spread more chaos and divided hatred, simply because it's not the religious (christian, catholic, islamic, buddist, hinduist, jewish, atheist) thing to do!

I agree with her and listed groups of Christian terrorists to support her idea.



There may be reason for confusion here in that I believe there is a word missing in elle381'S post."A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should use the name of religion they use to justify their actions".I believe she meant to say was A terrorist group is just a terrorist group and we should NOT use the name of the religion they use to justify their actions.In any case what is the point of naming nondescript minoity gangs and ascribing their actions to mainstream Christianity.Any real Christian will condemn their rhetoric and actions as nonchristian.So you agree with her and then happily proceed to label them Christian terrorists to support her idea. ?????

Frankk1950's photo
Tue 04/19/16 04:25 AM

Lung,

I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?

Will you actually say the word

"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?


There is one inherent problem in your challenge Isaac.It is permissable under Islamic law to lie if is done with the intention of promoting Islam.There are many passages in the Koran which permit lying to non-muslims.In the Koran,Allah is described as the greatest of all deceivers,as if deception is a virtue.Christianity in principle condemns lying buy unfortunately when it comes to practice there are many supposedly Christian groups who apparently indulge in all sorts of deception.

isaac_dede's photo
Tue 04/19/16 05:13 AM


Lung,

I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?

Will you actually say the word

"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?


There is one inherent problem in your challenge Isaac.It is permissable under Islamic law to lie if is done with the intention of promoting Islam.There are many passages in the Koran which permit lying to non-muslims.In the Koran,Allah is described as the greatest of all deceivers,as if deception is a virtue.Christianity in principle condemns lying buy unfortunately when it comes to practice there are many supposedly Christian groups who apparently indulge in all sorts of deception.

I'm confused is this topic about Christianity? Or is this a poor attempt at a redirect? Regardless not going there.

Still j would like an answer from the person my question was directed at....


Frankk1950's photo
Tue 04/19/16 05:50 AM
No intention whatsoever to redirect.I too would love to see Mr Lung condemn the actions of ISIS.However,how sincere such a condemnation would be in view of the practice of Taqiyya is another matter.As I'm sure Conrad would agree Mr Lung is rather evasive when it comes to laying the blame where it needs to be laid.

LUNG1954's photo
Wed 04/20/16 10:43 PM

No intention whatsoever to redirect.I too would love to see Mr Lung condemn the actions of ISIS.However,how sincere such a condemnation would be in view of the practice of Taqiyya is another matter.As I'm sure Conrad would agree Mr Lung is rather evasive when it comes to laying the blame where it needs to be laid.


Taqiyya
Taqiya means: "Concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury.”A one-word translation would be "dissimulation."
Taqiyya holds a central place in Twelver Shia Islam. This is sometimes explained by the minority position Shias had under the political dominance of Sunni Muslims, requiring them to protect themselves through concealment and dissimulation. In Shia legal literature, there is a range of situations in which taqiyya may be used or even required. For Shia Muslims, taqiyya is to conceal their association with their faith when revealing it would result in danger. Taqiyya is done for reasons of safety. For example, a person may fear that he might be killed or harmed if he does not observe taqiyya. In this case, taqiyya is allowed. However, in some circumstances taqiyya may lead to the death of an innocent person; if so, it is not permissible; it is forbidden to kill a human being to save one's own life.
Al-Taqiyya According To The Sunnis
Some Sunnis assert that al-Taqiyya is an act of pure hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth and reveal that which is the exact opposite (of the truth). Furthermore, according to those Sunnis, al-Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in Allah because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from eminent danger is fearful of humans, when, in fact, he should be fearful of Allah only. As such, this person is a coward.
Although some Wahhabis, aggressively defame the Shi’a and refute their doctrines, they have failed to explain the validity of their argument vis-a-vis the existence of these same doctrines in their own books.
Raymond Ibrahim wrote;
Taqiyya offers two basic uses. The better known revolves around dissembling over one's religious identity when in fear of persecution. Such has been the historical usage of taqiyya among Shi'i communities whenever and wherever their Sunni rivals have outnumbered and thus threatened them. Conversely, Sunni Muslims, far from suffering persecution have, whenever capability allowed, waged jihad against the realm of unbelief; and it is here that they have deployed taqiyya—not as dissimulation but as active deceit. In fact, deceit, which is doctrinally grounded in Islam, is often depicted as being equal—sometimes superior—to other universal military virtues, such as courage, fortitude, or self-sacrifice.
Ironically, however, Sunnis living in the West today find themselves in the place of the Shi'a: Now they are the minority surrounded by their traditional enemies—Christian infidels—even if the latter, as opposed to their Reconquista predecessors, rarely act on, let alone acknowledge, this historic enmity. In short, Sunnis are currently experiencing the general circumstances that made taqiyya integral to Shi'ism although without the physical threat that had so necessitated it.
In March 2009—Saudi legal expert Basem Alem publicly echoed this view:
As a member of the true religion, I have a greater right to invade [others] in order to impose a certain way of life [according to Shari'a], which history has proven to be the best and most just of all civilizations. This is the true meaning of offensive jihad. When we wage jihad, it is not in order to convert people to Islam, but in order to liberate them from the dark slavery in which they live.
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/al-taqiyya-dissimulation-part-1


Frankk1950's photo
Thu 04/21/16 05:44 AM


No intention whatsoever to redirect.I too would love to see Mr Lung condemn the actions of ISIS.However,how sincere such a condemnation would be in view of the practice of Taqiyya is another matter.As I'm sure Conrad would agree Mr Lung is rather evasive when it comes to laying the blame where it needs to be laid.


Taqiyya
Taqiya means: "Concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury.”A one-word translation would be "dissimulation."
Taqiyya holds a central place in Twelver Shia Islam. This is sometimes explained by the minority position Shias had under the political dominance of Sunni Muslims, requiring them to protect themselves through concealment and dissimulation. In Shia legal literature, there is a range of situations in which taqiyya may be used or even required. For Shia Muslims, taqiyya is to conceal their association with their faith when revealing it would result in danger. Taqiyya is done for reasons of safety. For example, a person may fear that he might be killed or harmed if he does not observe taqiyya. In this case, taqiyya is allowed. However, in some circumstances taqiyya may lead to the death of an innocent person; if so, it is not permissible; it is forbidden to kill a human being to save one's own life.
Al-Taqiyya According To The Sunnis
Some Sunnis assert that al-Taqiyya is an act of pure hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth and reveal that which is the exact opposite (of the truth). Furthermore, according to those Sunnis, al-Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in Allah because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from eminent danger is fearful of humans, when, in fact, he should be fearful of Allah only. As such, this person is a coward.
Although some Wahhabis, aggressively defame the Shi’a and refute their doctrines, they have failed to explain the validity of their argument vis-a-vis the existence of these same doctrines in their own books.
Raymond Ibrahim wrote;
Taqiyya offers two basic uses. The better known revolves around dissembling over one's religious identity when in fear of persecution. Such has been the historical usage of taqiyya among Shi'i communities whenever and wherever their Sunni rivals have outnumbered and thus threatened them. Conversely, Sunni Muslims, far from suffering persecution have, whenever capability allowed, waged jihad against the realm of unbelief; and it is here that they have deployed taqiyya—not as dissimulation but as active deceit. In fact, deceit, which is doctrinally grounded in Islam, is often depicted as being equal—sometimes superior—to other universal military virtues, such as courage, fortitude, or self-sacrifice.
Ironically, however, Sunnis living in the West today find themselves in the place of the Shi'a: Now they are the minority surrounded by their traditional enemies—Christian infidels—even if the latter, as opposed to their Reconquista predecessors, rarely act on, let alone acknowledge, this historic enmity. In short, Sunnis are currently experiencing the general circumstances that made taqiyya integral to Shi'ism although without the physical threat that had so necessitated it.
In March 2009—Saudi legal expert Basem Alem publicly echoed this view:
As a member of the true religion, I have a greater right to invade [others] in order to impose a certain way of life [according to Shari'a], which history has proven to be the best and most just of all civilizations. This is the true meaning of offensive jihad. When we wage jihad, it is not in order to convert people to Islam, but in order to liberate them from the dark slavery in which they live.
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/al-taqiyya-dissimulation-part-1




You still fail to answer the question asked by Isaac.Your reply is further confirmation of your evasiveness.I acknowledge that you are in an invidious position to the extent that condemnation of ISIS could put you in danger and because of the practice of taqiyya most people would not believe your answer even if you did condemn their actions.Perhaps this just highlights the insidious nature of the Islamic cult.I wonder on what basis Basem Alem claimed to be a member of "the true religion" and what criteria he used to judge that Sharia law led to "the best and most just of all civilizations".I'm quite sure some people would question his judgement on both issues.

isaac_dede's photo
Thu 04/21/16 05:56 PM

Lung,

I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?

Will you actually say the word

"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?


ok, apparently something was lost in translation. ..let's try this again. With yes/no

Lung,

1. Do you consider Al Queda and ISIS true Muslims? Yes/no

2. Do you regard Al Queda and ISIS as brothers in the Muslim community? Yes/no

3. Do you believe the actions of Al Queda and ISIS are in contradiction to Islamic teaching? Yes/no

4. Do you agree that Al Queda and ISIS should be stopped at any cost? Yes/no



LUNG1954's photo
Fri 04/22/16 12:30 AM


Lung,
I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?
Will you actually say the word
"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?

ok, apparently something was lost in translation. ..let's try this again. With yes/no
Lung,
1. Do you consider Al Queda and ISIS true Muslims? Yes/no
2. Do you regard Al Queda and ISIS as brothers in the Muslim community? Yes/no
3. Do you believe the actions of Al Queda and ISIS are in contradiction to Islamic teaching? Yes/no
4. Do you agree that Al Queda and ISIS should be stopped at any cost? Yes/no



Al Queda and ISIS are not true Muslims. They are brothers in the Muslim and non Muslim communities. Their actions of are in contradiction to Islamic teaching.
Islamic terrorism is, by definition, terrorist acts committed by Muslim groups or individuals who profess Islamic or Islamist motivations or goals. Islamic terrorists have relied on the tenets of the Quran and the Hadith, citing these scriptures to justify violent tactics including mass murder, genocide, child molestation and slavery.
One ideology that plays a role in terrorism by using the name of Islam, is Wahabism. Wahabism and its allies including Salafism (Salafi jihadism) supports war against any one and every one who is not like them.
The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab (militant group), Boko Haram, Indonesian Mujahedeen Council,Taliban, Sipah Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Hizbul Mujahideen follow intolerant Wahabi or Salafi ideology which is opposed by other Muslims.
Fethullah Gülen, a prominent Turkish Islamic scholar, has claimed that "a real Muslim," who understood Islam in every aspect, could not be a terrorist. There are many other people with similar points of view such as Karen Armstrong, Prof. Ahmet Akgunduz (tr), Harun Yahya and Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. Huston Smith, an author on comparative religion, noted that extremists have hijacked Islam, just as has occurred periodically in Christianity, Hinduism and other religions throughout history.
Ali Gomaa, former Grand Mufti of Egypt, stated not only for the Islam but in general: "Terrorism cannot be born of religion. Terrorism is the product of corrupt minds, hardened hearts, and arrogant egos, and corruption, destruction, and arrogance are unknown to the heart attached to the divine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Economic_motivations
So I agree that Al Qaeda, ISIS and all terrorists should be stopped at any cost.


Conrad_73's photo
Fri 04/22/16 12:38 AM
There is no difference!
They are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Koran!

LUNG1954's photo
Fri 04/22/16 09:57 PM

There is no difference!
They are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Koran!


anti-Islam groups are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Bible!
Israeli police shooting Palestinian children under the name of God!

mightymoe's photo
Sat 04/23/16 12:03 AM


There is no difference!
They are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Koran!


anti-Islam groups are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Bible!
Israeli police shooting Palestinian children under the name of God!




that's BS and you know it... the muslims are using the children as shields and then use their deaths as media fodder...the same way they store weapons in hospitals and schools... that whole situation would stop over there if the muslims would just stop invading, killing and lobbing bombs into Israel...

Conrad_73's photo
Sat 04/23/16 01:04 AM


There is no difference!
They are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Koran!


anti-Islam groups are just the most consistent Practitioners of the Bible!
Israeli police shooting Palestinian children under the name of God!


aha,now we are coming to the Crux of the Matter,and you are still way off Beam!

It is still NOT raining!laugh

Frankk1950's photo
Mon 04/25/16 07:27 AM



Lung,
I have just one question will publicly denounce Al Queada, and IsIS?
Will you actually say the word
"Isis and Al Queada are not muslims, and I don't regard them as part of the Muslim community, and what they are doing is in direct contradiction to Islam, and they should be stopped at any cost"?

ok, apparently something was lost in translation. ..let's try this again. With yes/no
Lung,
1. Do you consider Al Queda and ISIS true Muslims? Yes/no
2. Do you regard Al Queda and ISIS as brothers in the Muslim community? Yes/no
3. Do you believe the actions of Al Queda and ISIS are in contradiction to Islamic teaching? Yes/no
4. Do you agree that Al Queda and ISIS should be stopped at any cost? Yes/no



Al Queda and ISIS are not true Muslims. They are brothers in the Muslim and non Muslim communities. Their actions of are in contradiction to Islamic teaching.
Islamic terrorism is, by definition, terrorist acts committed by Muslim groups or individuals who profess Islamic or Islamist motivations or goals. Islamic terrorists have relied on the tenets of the Quran and the Hadith, citing these scriptures to justify violent tactics including mass murder, genocide, child molestation and slavery.
One ideology that plays a role in terrorism by using the name of Islam, is Wahabism. Wahabism and its allies including Salafism (Salafi jihadism) supports war against any one and every one who is not like them.
The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab (militant group), Boko Haram, Indonesian Mujahedeen Council,Taliban, Sipah Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Hizbul Mujahideen follow intolerant Wahabi or Salafi ideology which is opposed by other Muslims.
Fethullah Gülen, a prominent Turkish Islamic scholar, has claimed that "a real Muslim," who understood Islam in every aspect, could not be a terrorist. There are many other people with similar points of view such as Karen Armstrong, Prof. Ahmet Akgunduz (tr), Harun Yahya and Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. Huston Smith, an author on comparative religion, noted that extremists have hijacked Islam, just as has occurred periodically in Christianity, Hinduism and other religions throughout history.
Ali Gomaa, former Grand Mufti of Egypt, stated not only for the Islam but in general: "Terrorism cannot be born of religion. Terrorism is the product of corrupt minds, hardened hearts, and arrogant egos, and corruption, destruction, and arrogance are unknown to the heart attached to the divine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#Economic_motivations
So I agree that Al Qaeda, ISIS and all terrorists should be stopped at any cost.




Thank you for your answer Mr. Lung.I believe you have answered the question sincerely and honestly and I commend you for doing this.

no photo
Fri 05/13/16 09:30 AM

The Salafi movement was [revived] by Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab in the Arabian Peninsula, and was instrumental in the rise of the House of Saud to power. Salafism (Wahhabism) [ ...] and is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism is, in general, opposed to Sufism and Shi'a Islam, as well as Christians. ISIS and all the terroristic groups are originated from Wahabbi movement.


You are 100% right

Key:
Wahab is over 1300 years after Prophet Muhammad
Taymia is 700 years after Prophet Muhammad

I am the co-founder of Allah.com Muhammad.com the first Islamic sites on the Internet with over 13 million visitors and 1 million free downloads, I speak with good credibility of co authoring over 330 books in English and over 200+ in Arabic with 800 mb largest Koran and Prophetic sayings concordance of 36000 words ... big head smile!

You are 100% right excepted (what I market [] below), I might add that Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab following Ibn Taymia the outlawed Khawariji militia thinker

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_of_Arabia_%28film%29
movie on youtube to fully understand the terror nature of wahabis founding fathers

Remember their cheating statements such as [a puritanical and legalistic Islamic movement under the Sunni umbrella] are all BS

This statement is due to Imam Shafi'i not these terrors

However ISIS are smart in marketing to people everywhere
Let me explain: all wahabi succeess in marketing do to over $70 billion dollars invested by the Saudies in spreading Salafis later they realized they raised their dog too big now is going after their nick! Believe it or not Western middles east studies departments like yale, Harvard and oxford, Chicago ... revived Taymia thought via many PhD degrees

Finally puritanical Salafi vs [wahabi] Salafi: In a one word: wahabi follow the faith of idols they crafted like the malehood of god, the setting physically on 60 ft thrown in the upper direction idol .. etc

in Egypt they used to be about 10000 followers in 1960, now over 2 millions because of the 70 billion dollars investment

cheers