Youre right baygurl..........and not just the USA, but the rest of the world.

She was an advocate to western ways..........she knew this was to come eventually.......her own father was executed in 1979, and she fought a great fight.....


This is a major tragedy......

Just read that her husband and her teenage son(19year old) was elected as chairman and co-chair for her party. I'm sure they will continue her very important work and maybe bring about much needed change for the people of Pakistan

Wow! Hope is a good thing..but "reality" is what you have to face.

Father and son will step in, exact same results. The enemies from WITHIN that country will attempt to assasinate both and will most likely be, as with her, a matter of time.

That is PAKASTAN...NOT AMERICA. The do NOT have to "conform" to the American way of thinking!! It's none of the USA's business how they live!

Too many Americans "THINK" the American way is the "best" way to live. Well folk's, there are BETTER places to live in the world! (not saying Pakastan is one)

But fix OUR problems here at home FIRST, then help the others.

fate is determined

Benazir Bhutto thought it wsa a great way to be. That's why she wanted to bring it to her country.

As for better places to live:

If you’re looking for the best country in the world to live, head to Iceland. The UN just came out with its annual best places to shack up list and Iceland finally passed Norway, which had topped the list the previous 6 years. Apparently the salmon tastes better in Iceland these days. But really, when you look at all these people hanging out in those funky natural spring baths, how could you not want to live in Iceland? Look at how happy the girl with cream on her face looks!

Anyways, the UN compiles their annual list with boring statistics that include how much money people make, the cost of their dwellings, air quality and a lack of AIDS, people without clothing and human waste present on the ground.

So this year’s top 5 came out like this:

1)Iceland

2)Norway

3)Australia

4)Canada

5)Ireland

The USA came in 12th, dropping from 8th last year. Although, I think they should categorize Alaska separately from the rest of the USA because after the sea levels rise it will become a whole lot more desirable to live there!

Sumthingdifferent...
You keep bashing America and making opinionated statements as if they are fact. But you simple do not have your FACTS right. Your doom and gloom opinions have never and will never solve anything. You say there are better places to live so what's stopping you if you are not a hypocrite? Don't get me wrong, I served the US military for 20 yrs so you would have the freedom to make such ridiculous statements and I'd do it again. Freedom to speak your mind is beautiful. Now to my main thoughts. Bhutto was a great woman. Her death is a terrible tragedy. History will bare this out.

smo ..... I copied/pasted your post below

How important does a person have to be, in order to use the word assassinated instead of just killed or murdered? Oh, just something to think about, I guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------

smo ..... The termonology assassinated is very important. When that term is used, it puts the person into the category of a martyr. This is why there is such a big deal about whether she died by gunshot or whether she fell back and hit her head on the armored vehicle's sunroof.

I first will say I honor your commitment and service to this country. Nothing that follows is meant to demean that.

Well I have to keep this one light, since you have served this country, just as I have. But you must be an enlisted Marine or Army. And absolutely no offense meant by this FACT, you are trained to do as you are ORDERED and NOT to THINK OR ASK QUESTIONS of your higher authority. Now try to tell me that is NOT FACT!???

My FACTS sir are just that..FACT. And ask one and I can give you EXACT reference to either government documents and or reliable sources, such as major University studies done, regarding basically ANY topic you would like.

I do NOT bash the United States of America or my people. I do however "bash" as you call it, the corruption in the United States government that would sacrafice American lives for NOTHING BUT MONEY! I do not, nor will I ever apologize for that! Not ONE American life is worth being sacraficed in such a manner! And if you believe the we are in Iraq for anything but oil..well where are your "facts"?? We started it because of the BS of the "they have weapons of mass destruction". Did they!?? NO!!! Now its to liberate the Iraq people..BS!!! Only an IDIOT would try to "force" western civilazation into a Muslim middle east country! Because it has a snowball's chance in hell of being successful! They are TAUGHT that the "western" lifestyle is a SIN and they are the ENEMY!! Are you MENTAL!!????

I only ask this so hopefully you may THINK about this and do a little research. Because it ALL points at ONE REASON why the United States armed forces are there... OIL! (MONEY!)

That sir, is what I HATE. Again I honor and applaud EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER that is and has served this country! They are MY brothers and sisters too! But I will not sit quietly (and I do much more than post about it) and watch them being placed in harms way for nothing more than someone else's FINANCIAL GAIN!

And my point in this thread was why do we place so much energy and resources into other parts of the world, when we have MAJOR problems right here in the USA!!??

You are a soldier! Relate to this. Your platoon is injured and hurting, several things need to be fixed and repaired. Which is the smartest strategy? Pull back the platoon, fix what needs to be fixed and become a much stronger more efficient fighting force to complete your objective. Or continue as is and watch things continue to fall apart around you, risking the lives of your platoon and lessening thier chance for survival??? That sir is my point.

Oh, as to me leaving the USA, of course that is a viable option and I may do so. If the American people continue to let our government be corrupt and the people do not take back the authority as they should have, I will leave my country, because I will have become ashamed of its self centered, shelfish foundation it has created. I am hoping that will not happen. But the way things look, it must be left open as an option. As the person described a little earlier in this thread, the USA is sliding down the list rapidly on best countries to live...there is a FACT for you in itself.

Once again, I honor you, my other brothers and sisters in the armed forces. And this is in NO WAY to "bash" as you call it, those in service/have served, America, or the American people. But I do not and will not apologize for the TRUE statements I have made about the American government and its corruption.

And again the thread has nothing to do with the US placing resources anywhere. It's about the death of a woman who wanted something better for her country.

The US is not the center of the universe. The world does not revolve around The U.S.A.

And I AGREE WITH YOU!!! So why does the US government keep sticking its nose where it does NOT belong!??

This just in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bush was behind the hit!!!!!!!

































Just you wait. That'll be the next thing blamed on him.

Sumthingdifferent...
Are you suggesting a revolution in America? The changes you are talking about won't come fast enough for you any other way. I think you really are getting off topic. It is interesting so maybe you could start your own thread and we could continue this conversation there.

Because if we don't we'll have a world in absolute chaos that will come and bite us in the butt anyways. If we did not prop up Musharaff and support people like Bhutto we'd have a Pakistan run over by Islamic militants (who are the ones who most likely killed Bhutto). Do you really want Islamic militants in control of nuclear bombs? Those Pakistani Islamic militants are directly associated to al Qaeda, now let's think what al Qaeda would like to do with a nuclear device or just nuclear material....hmmmm....

In today's world everywhere is where the US belongs, the same goes for any other country with national interest and involved in the world economic market.

The whole isolationist idea by our Founding Fathers was during a time when it took weeks to get to Europe if you got there at all. Now it only takes a few hours. It throws the ability to cut ourselves off as world players. We have to stick our noses 'where they don't belong' because it protects us from getting sucker punched in the nose.

Agreed, prolly better in a different thread. A "revolution"? Well if thats what it takes. It was really not all that long ago when we had the civil war, and just before that the Boston Tea Party. But in this case, it's actually easier, because the people would not have to "fight" in the physical sense.

But again, its "off toic" in this thread. My apologies.

First and foremost, we are responsible and liable for ONE country! the United States of America and the PEOPLE of the United States of America! We are NOT Pakastan, we are NOT Iraq! You state the world would be in chaos. There have been over 500,000 people MURDERED in COLD BLOOD for ETHNIC CLEANSING (can you say HITLER?) in Africa, yet America and other countries basically do NOTHING! Again, we are in the middle east for one reason..OIL/MONEY! So where is your support for those over a HALF MILLION SLAUGHTERED IN COLD BLOOD!??? And it CONTINUES TODAY!

Yet you "boo hoo" over ONE WOMAN IN PAKASTAN! Unless you are family or close friend, then that is PATHETIC, while you sit back and do NOTHING for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED IN COLD BLOOD!! Her "assaination" was EXPECTED! EVERYONE knew this was only a matter of time! That's the REALITY of this world! Just as when her husband and son take her place..guess what, they also are EXPECTED to be KILLED by the same groups of people that hated her! Thats just REALITY! That's just FACT!

Any death of a human life is a SAD thing. I made it clear from the start, my sympathies for her family and friends. But open your eyes, because there are MUCH GREATER TRAGEDIES going on in this world! Even right here in the United States of America. So things need to be kept in proper perspective.

If you are all for America, would you not say that oil is in our interest? We do not have enough oil on our own and need it from...guess where? The Middle East. So, our interests are there, our security, our lifestyles, our stability are directly there in oil. That's just FACT!

Where did I boohoo for Bhutto? I am a staunch conservative and a realist. She was a strategic partner as is Musharraf. We NEED (ed) them both for stability in Pakistan to maintain a government heading in the direction of stability and democracy. You are talking in sensationalist terms. Not realistic, much like Ron Paul.

A 42 year old man calling me pathetic, in caps, is quite interesting as well, especially when I am talking in an educated sense, a strategic realistic sense. I suppose you want us fully removed from the Middle East, what happens as a result? I'll tell you. Iran becomes a dominant player, they roll over the Gulf Arab states we are protecting. They take sole control over the oil and we are screwed, and not just that, they fully develop nuclear weapons by working with the militant Pakistani's that run all over the place.

So, they are then in full control of the oil, which makes the world turn, and then are also in control of nuclear weapons with a bunch of people who care nothing about their own life and that of innocents. Iran has a martyr squad in its own army for goodness sake.

So, we then have Iran working with militants in Pakistan, a strange but the enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality. And then we have poppy central of Afghanistan that would fall immediately cause all they have is opium there. So, they have oil and drug money, huge profits, and then we have the interesting alliance between Sudan, North Korea, Iran, and Venezuela. North Korea and Iran have been trading weapons tech and the nuclear weapons info spread by Abdul Qadeer Khan the Pakistani.

U.S. ships months ago tracked a North Korean ship that docked in an Iranian port, they said they had peaceful items in it, yeah right.

And, one of the more interesting things that you save Darfur people seem to totally forget. Do remember we have poured billions in aid and military assistance that got us nowhere.

As to Darfur though, Iran has formed a close military partnership with the country and has said that any foreign military, be it a country or the UN who enters Sudan will be seen as a direct attack on Islam. By the way, the center of Hezbollah in Africa, with their biggest base is found in one certain country, Sudan. Plus, we have Russia who is trade partners with Sudan.

The biggest problem with Sudan is China, who gets HUGE oil imports from Sudan.

Billions, more likely trillions have been pumped into Africa by us, both federal, but mostly private money and aid and services. We have tried everything and some places are finally turning around. South Africa and Ethiopia are somewhat decent, in Africa standards. The place was the cradle of civilization, that was until civilization realized the place was a travesty.

If you care most about the US, US citizens, then you should care about our place in the Middle East and our continued role there first. Without presence and support it WILL descend into chaos and with a single day of oil supply being cut off the US economy will slide big time. Should it be cut off for a week or more, we are in the Great Depression. And, World War will follow for when our economy tanks, the world economy will absolutely collapse.

Finally, someone that speaks the FACTS. Thank you starsailor. The US economy would collapse if we did not go to war for oil. As for why is America concerned about Pakistan... does anyone remember 911? Bin Laden and his radicals ran to Pakistan for sancuary. Pakistan needs to bomb the north western mountains in Pakistan til it is level. Until they (or we) do that, we have every right to be concerned with Pakistan. Pulling our troops out of that part of the world is an invitation for another 911 or worse. You wouldn't want the Islamic radicals to get control of Pakistan's nukes, would you? So you see, a free and stable Pakistan is in the US's best interests.

OK, I'll reply to this topic first.

You call this FACT??? What you are saying is very little and only PARTIAL "FACT".

Umm where is Bin Laden from!!?? SAUDIE ARABIA! Where does Bin Laden get his money supply!? From OIL sales from SAUDIE ARABIA! 42% of ALL foriegn fighters in Iraq that are there to KILL American troops come from SAUDIE ARABIA! Who is one of the LARGEST BUYERS OF OIL FROM SAUDIE ARABIA!!?? THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! WE ARE PAYING THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL US! Now those are DOCUMENTED FACTS by the United States government! Go look them up. You want to talk "fact"..there is "fact"!

Are you people REALLY that IGNORANT!? (meaning the TRUE sense of the word..not as an insult) Do you not see the WHOLE picture here!?

Ok first name your source for your claimed "fact"! At last report, there is enough oil under the state of Alaska alone to supply the US with oil for at LEAST the next 100 years!

So where do you get your "facts"????

The United States has enough oil tables under our own soil to supply our needs for at LEAST 100 years! Even more if the American people would learn to CONSERVE, Instead of wasting so much on thier own selfishness! The dependency on oil has only developed over the last 50-60 years!

So NO! There is no legitimate reason why it is in the United States "best interest" to sacrafice American lives over OIL! If you all really believe that (and this includes everyone who has posted in this thread), then go trade places with those on the front line and YOU put YOUR LIFE on the line for OIL! Then we'll see how much "TALK" you'll be doing. It's way too easy for you to "pay lip service", instead of having to face heavy gun fire, booby-traps and roadside bombs, than to sit back behind your computer and talk smack!

Pakastan is a PUPPET country! Used by ANYONE who will pay for it! It goes to the "highest bidder". They will align themselves, with the US, Russia, China..it does not matter WHO it is..just HOW MUCH they will pay! If it becomes a "true threat" to the US, then we wipe them out. Why is that such a tough concept to grasp?

So I would be interested in what your sources of "facts" come from. CNBC maybe?????

this is the first ive heard of it.