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trained by whom?
"The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php |
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the choice is not always easy but it IS always there,,,,, I will usually choose not taking a life, unless reason to believe someone intends to take mine ( a fist fight with a teen wouldnt count,,,,) like, saying they will kill me and then physically assaulting me with a weight or strength advantage, or with potential weapons around, or actual weapons (materials DESIGNED to cause physical harm) like guns and knives. Im not gonna shoot someone dead over a fight. Makes me not much better than a gang banger except I will have done it quicker. thats true, something is definitely wrong with the woman at FAU -based upon video and the man on retreevil lane(zimmerman) -based upon audio |
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Topic:
Another School Shooting
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I agree, people should help each other. I wonder if he offered to 'help' that boy or just assumed he should treat him with criminal suspicion? the boy was part of the 'community' a new part, but a part just the same I dont know him personally either, but Im glad they at least are going to INVESTIGATE instead of just wrapping it up as 'self defense' |
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Topic:
Another School Shooting
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I agree, people should help each other.
I wonder if he offered to 'help' that boy or just assumed he should treat him with criminal suspicion? |
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the choice is not always easy
but it IS always there,,,,, I will usually choose not taking a life, unless reason to believe someone intends to take mine ( a fist fight with a teen wouldnt count,,,,) like, saying they will kill me and then physically assaulting me with a weight or strength advantage, or with potential weapons around, or actual weapons (materials DESIGNED to cause physical harm) like guns and knives. Im not gonna shoot someone dead over a fight. Makes me not much better than a gang banger except I will have done it quicker. |
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his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,, no, COPS have a job to seek out people who are breaking laws this man was breaking no law by minding his business and walking in the rain at night,,, If a cop had pursued him (unless there is a curfew there), there would have been issues,, let alone if he had killed him,,, |
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thats an embarassment for sure violence isnt an answer to anything, had she been on the street, she may have been shot for being so threatening,,, With so many people around willing to get involved and prevent her from seriously injuring anyone there is no need for deadly force. This is what good citizens can do. But if she where alone with you, and beating on you despite your cries for help for minutes at a time, then that would be a different story . . . I guess we would both walk away bruised, unless she had a gun. Because I dont. Im saying, Id rather be responsible for injuring someone because they injured me than KILLING someone because they injured me,,, |
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his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,, |
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thats an embarassment for sure violence isnt an answer to anything, had she been on the street, she may have been shot for being so threatening,,, With so many people around willing to get involved and prevent her from seriously injuring anyone there is no need for deadly force. This is what good citizens can do. But if she where alone with you, and beating on you despite your cries for help for minutes at a time, then that would be a different story . . . I guess we would both walk away bruised, unless she had a gun. Because I dont. |
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http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman.html The only lucid article I have read yet. Wednesday, March 21, 2012
The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman Shooting and "Stand Your Ground" law. The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman Shooting and the Stand Your Ground Law by jon gutmacher The death of Trayvon Martin in a shooting by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida has reached circus proportions – largely because of a lack of information from the police, and a plethora of mis-information about the "Stand Your Ground" law. Let me try to set some things straight from a legal and practical standpoint. First – while a grand jury will hear the case in April – there is no law that prevented the Sanford Police Department from releasing information on why no arrest was made. True – the Public Records Law would “protect” the police department from releasing that information – but it never “forbade” the release of that information – especially if the release would be in the best interest of the public. It’s been obvious that the staunch refusal to do that – has blown this case totally out of proportion, and caused it to go “viral” on a national level. In my opinion – this continued "behind closed doors" attitude was and continues to be a serious mistake on the part of law enforcement, and information needs to be released as to why an arrest was not initially made. Next – let's talk about the “Stand your Ground Law”. Contrary to all the anti-gun hype – this law does not protect George Zimmerman if he was the aggressor. In fact – if he misused his firearm – the law is quite clear that he is looking at a MINIMUM mandatory prison sentence of 25 years – and as much as LIFE imprisonment! That’s mandatory, folks – and every day of the 25 years must be served if convicted! No early release. No parole. Sound like the “easy gun laws” everyone is complaining about on TV? Twenty five years to life??? No way! The facts are that the "Stand Your Ground" law simply says that if you have an objectively reasonable belief that you are in imminent danger (ie: “immediate”) of death or a substantially serious injury (ie: “great bodily harm”) , or there is a reasonably objective belief that a forcible felony is taking place, AND it appears reasonable to use deadly force in the situation – then deadly force may be used, and you need not retreat before using deadly force. But . . . if you make an unreasonable decision or unreasonable mistake in judgment – then -- go directly to jail – for a long, long time! The only thing the “Stand Your Ground Law” really changed from earlier law was to correct a serious problem in the self defense law – because forcing someone to retreat in the myriad of impossible situations that arose in self defense – and especially in trying to stop a forcible felony – made it very difficult to legally defend yourself no matter how justified the lethal force situation was. Quite frankly, Florida law is a lot tougher on penalties than most other states -- and is very similar to the self defense laws of other states -- except that the "retreat rule" has been eliminated. (which -- is also the trend, and has been passed in many other states besides Florida). So. . . was George Zimmerman acting lawfully? Damn if I know – quite frankly – doesn’t look good for George at this point. But, without the vital information that you would expect to have been released weeks ago – we’re all standing out here guessing – and worst of all – the anti-gunners, and those who can gain something by being in the media spotlight – are having a field day with misinformation about our laws – and your rights. Spread the word! This is not a copyrighted article -- and you have full permission to use it anyway you like. It is all about showing evidence that Zimmerman started the confrontation, and was the aggressor. Anything else is immaterial at this point. We do not have ANY information (to my knowledge) about the events that took place prior to the struggle. Everything else is agenda fodder. his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, |
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http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman.html The only lucid article I have read yet. Wednesday, March 21, 2012
The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman Shooting and "Stand Your Ground" law. The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman Shooting and the Stand Your Ground Law by jon gutmacher The death of Trayvon Martin in a shooting by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida has reached circus proportions – largely because of a lack of information from the police, and a plethora of mis-information about the "Stand Your Ground" law. Let me try to set some things straight from a legal and practical standpoint. First – while a grand jury will hear the case in April – there is no law that prevented the Sanford Police Department from releasing information on why no arrest was made. True – the Public Records Law would “protect” the police department from releasing that information – but it never “forbade” the release of that information – especially if the release would be in the best interest of the public. It’s been obvious that the staunch refusal to do that – has blown this case totally out of proportion, and caused it to go “viral” on a national level. In my opinion – this continued "behind closed doors" attitude was and continues to be a serious mistake on the part of law enforcement, and information needs to be released as to why an arrest was not initially made. Next – let's talk about the “Stand your Ground Law”. Contrary to all the anti-gun hype – this law does not protect George Zimmerman if he was the aggressor. In fact – if he misused his firearm – the law is quite clear that he is looking at a MINIMUM mandatory prison sentence of 25 years – and as much as LIFE imprisonment! That’s mandatory, folks – and every day of the 25 years must be served if convicted! No early release. No parole. Sound like the “easy gun laws” everyone is complaining about on TV? Twenty five years to life??? No way! The facts are that the "Stand Your Ground" law simply says that if you have an objectively reasonable belief that you are in imminent danger (ie: “immediate”) of death or a substantially serious injury (ie: “great bodily harm”) , or there is a reasonably objective belief that a forcible felony is taking place, AND it appears reasonable to use deadly force in the situation – then deadly force may be used, and you need not retreat before using deadly force. But . . . if you make an unreasonable decision or unreasonable mistake in judgment – then -- go directly to jail – for a long, long time! The only thing the “Stand Your Ground Law” really changed from earlier law was to correct a serious problem in the self defense law – because forcing someone to retreat in the myriad of impossible situations that arose in self defense – and especially in trying to stop a forcible felony – made it very difficult to legally defend yourself no matter how justified the lethal force situation was. Quite frankly, Florida law is a lot tougher on penalties than most other states -- and is very similar to the self defense laws of other states -- except that the "retreat rule" has been eliminated. (which -- is also the trend, and has been passed in many other states besides Florida). So. . . was George Zimmerman acting lawfully? Damn if I know – quite frankly – doesn’t look good for George at this point. But, without the vital information that you would expect to have been released weeks ago – we’re all standing out here guessing – and worst of all – the anti-gunners, and those who can gain something by being in the media spotlight – are having a field day with misinformation about our laws – and your rights. Spread the word! This is not a copyrighted article -- and you have full permission to use it anyway you like. It is all about showing evidence that Zimmerman started the confrontation, and was the aggressor. Anything else is immaterial at this point. We do not have ANY information (to my knowledge) about the events that took place prior to the struggle. Everything else is agenda fodder. that is a good point in the STAND YOUR GROUND state,, who would be considered the 'aggressor' the man reasonably perceived as a threat when he leaves the safety of his car to FOLLOW a young man in the dark and in the rain or the boy reasonably perceived as a threat when he fights for his life against the inital threat that HE perceived? |
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http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/blogs/beth-kassab/os-trayvon-martin-sg-20120315,0,3117109.special if anyone can look at those two pictures and tell me the man with the gun had a reasonable expectation that the kid without one could kill him in a physical fight,,,, I dont know what else to say,,, msharmony, how do you get a man who weighs 200+ lbs on the ground on his back, get into a mounted position on top of him? I was in mixed martial arts, and you do it with a take down. Football players call it a tackle. Terminology doesn't matter, its required. How does bleeding injuries to the back of the head occur? How does a bloody nose occur? Martin was violently attacking Zimmerman, a witness who identified them by what they where wearing explained how the person in red on the bottom was crying for help, how the person on top in the grey sweat shirt was beating him without pause. Anyone who is trying to paint Martin as a saint needs to deal with the fact that he was unrelenting in his attack on Zimmerman, he was at least 160 lbs of athlete viciously attacking the man, may have been hitting in the back of the head, or pounding his head into the ground, no other ways to get that kind of wound really and did not stop when onlookers, and Zimmerman pleaded with him to stop. ALL allegedly before the gun came into play. This paints a story of a teen who wanted to hurt someone for following him and questioning him. The media, and the bandwagon "think of the children" types are just trying to make Zimmerman out to be some rogue wanna be cop becuase it makes there crusade seem all the more plausible, and it helps ratings. The facts however do not support that account of events. The girlfriend on the phone actually backs up Zimmerman's account that he lost track of Martin. Sadly it does not help us understand how they came back together, so all we have is zimmermans side (unless additional witness testimony is available and not released) I hope that all of the available facts will be release some time soon. I doubt that will happen, chances are it will not be until October, or December. Also it does matter what he was suspended for, everyone wants to make use of Zimmermans past to show he was violent, we need to know if martin was violent, was he suspended for fighting? Makes you wonder. ==== Edit, you mention martins cell phone. I wonder why he did not call the police? Zimmerman called the police. If zimmerman wanted to hurt someone he would not have called the police. From this we can glean that zimmermans motivations where not to harm anyone, but to have the police question the suspicious person. We do not know Martins motivations, everyone is assuming they where good, but we know nothing about martin expect the biased accounts of the distraught family. For us in the public, we need to make sure not to jump to conclusions based on bad information. 140 lbs child is bad info, he was a 160+ lbs 6 foot 3 inch young man. The skittles, the tea and the phone are not facts unless he used the tea to strike zimmerman and that was what caused the wounds to the back of his head, otherwise its inconsequential. The phone is important, why did he not call for help, unless he was not frightened for his life, and maybe his motive was to ambush zimmerman. If someone is following me all I have to do is hide, and then wait. When I see him move past where he saw me, then I spring my ambush. This is not speculation, its actually Zimmermans account of events which the actually statement has not been released for yet so it may differ slightly but this is the theme. if the police were seen as on his side, he would certainly call them, (as he had almost fifty times before) especially in a 'stand your ground' state,, it would give him an alibi,, as it apparently seems to be doing,,, as far as 'hiding', like I said before, thats the problem with stand your ground, THEIR LAWS say you dont have to hide,,and fighting for your life is reasonable,,,, his statement was the boy attacked him suddenly AFTER having run from him initially, and apparently while on a phone call where his girlfriend says she heard the two have an exchange of words FIRST |
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thats an embarassment for sure
violence isnt an answer to anything, had she been on the street, she may have been shot for being so threatening,,, |
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No, no username is given, so it's not a violation, since it could be anyone. Topics which are started with the intent to denigrate, belittle, disparage, or exclude another Mingle2 member or members, or specific groups or classifications of Mingle2 members, either directly named or through enough descriptive commentary to be possibly identified, are prohibited. Such topics will be instantly deleted and may result in the banning of the original poster. This includes following another poster around in the forums, posting about past events gone sour, divulging personal information, spreading gossip or rumors, posting email exchanges between users, etc. Keep the drama off the forums! it was a general post, not directed at anyone specifically in mingle, in fact, it was ABOUT someone I know outside of mingle personally if some of the hundreds of minglers happen to fit the generalization,,,,thats noones fault |
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mine too,,,, |
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Awesome, I was hoping someone would post this, Thanks msharmony. I like your opening statement! I do think both parties "larger" issues for the other, are among these lists, though exaggerated. 
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 03/21/12 06:41 PM
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when people try to disprove bigotry by alluding to exceptions they have made to befriend some individuals within the group they are bigoted against?
or when people try to prove bigotry by alluding to discussions about race relations or bigotry? I knew once, a person who hated another race(or at least STRONGLY looked down upon), they met someone of that race who also hated that race, and once they became a couple (lust and common ground can conquer mountains), the former constantly alluded to the latter as proof they werent racist even though, the latter was a perfect and constant way for them to VALIDATE their racism (After all, if even a member of the hated group can see what I see I must be right,,,,) |
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those jokes are around about both parties, although I dont personally believe any candidate falls squarely and completely in a political box when it comes to what they do or dont support
here is the joke for republicans TOP 12 REASONS TO VOTE REPUBLICAN 1. I don't want my hard-earned tax dollars spent on those in need, like seniors, the homeless, or people without health care. Not when we have wars to fight and people to convert. Those tanks and body bags are expensive, you know. 2. I think we should give up our freedom of speech by passing laws like "The Patriot Act." Every real American should be willing to have their phones tapped as part of their patriotic duty to their "Fatherland." 3. I believe we should stay in Iraq until every last Muslim accepts our democratic (Christian) way of life, even if it takes 100 years. You tell them, Mr. McCain! 4. I believe our bottom-line profits are more important then a few meaningless creatures. If they were important to God, He would have given them guns like us. They don't serve any real purpose anyway! 5. I agree that we should drill for oil offshore and in Alaska. If the fish and wildlife don't like it, we can move them to reservations. 6. Our government has a right to pass anti-abortion laws. Women should understand that the Republicans know what is best for their bodies. It's not like we need to limit our population. But if we did, the Republicans have a great plan. It's called war! So ladies, do your duty and have your babies. We will need them for our future wars. 7. I believe no death row inmate has a right to appeal. (Where is that in our constitution anyway?) If it's good enough for Mr. Bush and Texas, then it's good enough for me! 8. No business should be forced to give any benefits to its workers no matter how much it makes off them. (Let them eat cake!) 9. The Republicans are the only ones that should be allowed to interpret our Constitution because, after all, Lincoln was a Republican. 10. I believe every "American" should own a few guns because if Iraq ever invades us, our nuclear missiles may not be enough to stop them. 11. The Republicans will stop those gay people from making our children gay. 12. And finally, I am voting Republican in November because in the past month gas dropped to under $4 per gallon. Vote Republican in November. Keep the status quo. P.S. God help us all. I mean, God bless America! http://forums.nicoclub.com/12-reasons-to-vote-republican-funny-t367991.html |
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Topic:
Another School Shooting
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Well hear in Northeast ohio a few miles from chardon things are finaly settling down a bit. The red and black plastic ribbons (Chardons school colors) are all fadeing and tearing away from werever some kind hearted soul thought to put them thinking they would do some good. The future remains bleak for most american kids. Hug them if you got em. amen, and dont let them walk alone at night if they live in Florida or Texas... In Most states at age 18 you can open carry a firearm as long as you have obtained it legally. thats ok. I am raising my children to value human life, even others.... yes, thats unfortunate and explains your logic based upon what your perception of 'real world' is but its still not logical to ME based upon what my 'real world' experience has been |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 03/21/12 06:11 PM
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The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot. "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." ..this proves nothing but that they were fighting and at some point the boy had the better of the man who started crying for help it says nothing about him being 'tackled' , if the gun had not been in the situation, the odds of a death would have decreased greatly,,,, and it matters not what he was suspended for , because THAT night he was not threatening anyone with skittles, a pop, and a cell phone that he was apparently USING at the time,,,, |
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