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do you think if he would have reported to the police and not confronted the kid that the kid would still be alive? We do not know who confronted who. So that is an element which must be answered to answer this question.
Feelings have no bearing on the facts. You hear a 911 tape and think oh yea this guy confronted the other one, you dont know that. Knowing that takes more. This is what is called circumstantial evidence. I want to know more before judging the events of that night. i thought we knew that.. he was following the kid, not the other way around...all he had to do is follow the kid till the police got there, it was not his job to detain or harass the boy, just watch him till the police got there. you cannot detain someone that has not broken any laws... what law did the kid break again? It is just as likely that Martin recognized him from being followed earlier and decided to confront Zimmerman. Please let me know if you have additional facts. but what if he did? you seriously consider that a man 200+ pounds could make a kid 140 pounds feel threatened enough to run when he followed him? but felt his life in danger when confronted by this same kid? it just doesnt add up billy, no matter how diplomatic or reserved a judgment one tries to have,,, |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 03/20/12 03:54 PM
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do you think if he would have reported to the police and not confronted the kid that the kid would still be alive? We do not know who confronted who. So that is an element which must be answered to answer this question.
Feelings have no bearing on the facts. You hear a 911 tape and think oh yea this guy confronted the other one, you dont know that. Knowing that takes more. This is what is called circumstantial evidence. I want to know more before judging the events of that night. but how do you 'know' at this point, people are going to either say what they saw or what they heard and how do you 'know' they are right or honest either....? we have a girl who says she was on the phone with him and thats verified by the times on his call log,, that doesnt prove she had the conversation she said she had though,,,, so what would make us 'know' which witnesses, accounts are actually true and accurate? unless she has a recording, her testimony about what initiated the scuffle shouldnt be valid but the neighbors dont need recordings for us to consider their accounts of the scuffle accurate? dont we usually put the onus of responsibility on adults in situations where there is an adult and a child? if the adult was in the safety of his car and told not to pursue the boy, wouldnt the responsible thing be to sit in his car by the mailboxes until police arrived , he was the ADULT he shot and killed a KID after the KID got the upperhand on him in a scuffle (fist fight) Im judging that hasty and irresponsible decisions on this ADULTS part led to this childs death,,,and there should be some accountability for it,,,, |
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Topic:
Cheating
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Im curious who thinks watching porn is cheating?
I kind of put that and sexting, cyber sex, phone sex,,etc,,,,all in the same boat of 'fantasy' |
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there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? You really think this is evidence of manslaughter?
msharmony, you have no business determining guilt with such poor critical thinking skills. should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? This illustrates you do not even know how the law works.
murder is illegal, billy... no matter how you think you justify it... the boys death was caused by the others gun... and you wanna blame the boy? really? try this definition Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. so, would you not consider it 'reckless' to follow someone in the rain at night after being instructed by a police dispatcher not to? no, a paralegal though,, if it matters which it doesnt, when people are sharing opinions,,, Anything less is biased. man, i'll go riot in flordia if they let him off with self defence...i have seen nothing even close to it... That would be dumb. You are going to threaten other peoples lives because you think an injustice has been carried out when you dont even have the facts yet . . .
the witness testimony only backs up that they fought,, and stand your ground would give that boy every right to fight some man following him in the dark ESPECIALLY if he happened at some point to see the man had a gun and had tried FIRST to run from the man (also, the mans own words) Not true. You have no right to physical touch another person. Whoever initiated violence was the attacker. If you find evidence it was Zimmerman, than that is important, otherwise your still making stuff up.
do you think if he would have reported to the police and not confronted the kid that the kid would still be alive? personally, yes I think the kid would recognize police officers as official authorities carrying guns and there would be no scuffle, he would tell them where he was headed, and it would be overwith,,, |
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there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? You really think this is evidence of manslaughter?
msharmony, you have no business determining guilt with such poor critical thinking skills. should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? This illustrates you do not even know how the law works.
murder is illegal, billy... no matter how you think you justify it... the boys death was caused by the others gun... and you wanna blame the boy? really? try this definition Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. so, would you not consider it 'reckless' to follow someone in the rain at night after being instructed by a police dispatcher not to? no, a paralegal though,, if it matters which it doesnt, when people are sharing opinions,,, Anything less is biased. man, i'll go riot in flordia if they let him off with self defence...i have seen nothing even close to it... That would be dumb. You are going to threaten other peoples lives because you think an injustice has been carried out when you dont even have the facts yet . . .
the witness testimony only backs up that they fought,, and stand your ground would give that boy every right to fight some man following him in the dark ESPECIALLY if he happened at some point to see the man had a gun and had tried FIRST to run from the man (also, the mans own words) Not true. You have no right to physical touch another person. Whoever initiated violence was the attacker. If you find evidence it was Zimmerman, than that is important, otherwise your still making stuff up.
its noble and a pretty cliche but 'all facts' are rarely ever available let alone disclosed or discovered,,, as far as physically touching another person, if that person has followed you and approached you and has a gun? your only right is to risk being shot while you are standing or while you are running? interesting,,,,that seems to contradict stand your ground law,,, |
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Topic:
Cheating
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Shouldn't you define what cheating is for you and your partner, first of all? *Sighs* One of my biggest problems in a relationship... Yes, because I know a lot of guys who think sexting is not cheating. interesting, for me sexting is not cheating, its scandalous and its insulting but not cheating cheating are the things that have potential to bring me a disease or create another life (and even condoms arent 100 percent safe, so cheating still has the potential to bring disease , even if protection is used) |
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As far as I'm concerned, this boy better have walked up and stuck a stick in this other guy's eye to have his life snuffed out like this.. ......somehow I don't think that happened. seems pretty open and shut to me, and i cannot figure out why this zimmerman dude is not in jail right now. i guess they need their due process... as long as he is charged at some point seemed ludacris that they would wrap it up so quickly as a case of 'self defense'... |
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there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? You really think this is evidence of manslaughter?
msharmony, you have no business determining guilt with such poor critical thinking skills. should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? This illustrates you do not even know how the law works.
murder is illegal, billy... no matter how you think you justify it... the boys death was caused by the others gun... and you wanna blame the boy? really? try this definition Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. so, would you not consider it 'reckless' to follow someone in the rain at night after being instructed by a police dispatcher not to? You have not establishes that he was following Martin, but you want to arrest him with that as your central theme of arrest? The PA has all the available facts, and he has not arrested Zimmerman. Unless you think its some kind of conspiracy then its becuase the facts, and the witness testimony all back up Zimmerman. I have established he followed him, with his own words. You are debating whether he 'continued' to follow him which would be irrelevant to the state of mind of a young boy after he had BEGUN to be followed by someone. it also leaves another question about why he could not give a location where he would meet the police , as opposed to suggesting they call him to 'find out' where he was... the witness testimony only backs up that they fought,, and stand your ground would give that boy every right to fight some man following him in the dark ESPECIALLY if he happened at some point to see the man had a gun and had tried FIRST to run from the man (also, the mans own words) The DA will charge him, no doubt, and thats the best place to start, as opposed to just wrapping it up as 'self defense' like they were originally trying to do. |
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Police recordings made the night a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain allegedly shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy outside his stepmother's home sent the boy's mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, "He killed my son," according to a family representative. The series of emergency and non-emergency calls to police depict the apparent progression of events on Feb. 26 that led to the watch captain, George Zimmerman, 28, who is white, allegedly shooting Trayvon Martin, a high-school junior who is black, as the teen made his way home with a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. The contents of the calls and the family's reaction to them were recounted to ABC News by a representative of the boy's family, Ryan Julison, and ABC News affiliate WFTV published excerpts from the 911 calls. On one call to a non-emergency dispatch number, according to Julison, Zimmerman says, "He's checking me out," and then, "This guy looks like he's on drugs, he's definitely messed up." "There's a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something," Zimmerman can be heard telling the dispatcher. "These a**holes always get away," he adds. The dispatcher is heard trying to discourage Zimmerman, asking, "Are you following him?.. Okay, we don't need you to do that." Within minutes, however, 911 calls are being made to police reporting the two are fighting. "They're wrestling right in the back of my porch," one frantic caller says. "The guy's yelling help and I'm not going out." On a second call someone's screams for help can be heard and what sounds like two gunshots. The caller's boyfriend shouts, "Get down," and after the second apparent gunshot the shouts for help cease, Julison told ABC News. "There's gun shots. Uh, I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out here, holy sh**," a caller says into the phone. One witness describes Zimmerman after the shooting. "He's out there with a flashlight. The guy is raising his hands up saying he shot the person," the caller said more at : http://abcnews.go.com/US/treyvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-shooting-911-tapes-send/story?id=15937881 my heart goes out to these families, their lives have been uprooted senselessly,,,, What a sick example of many problems in our society still today. People who legally but not legally have weapons using them in their own sick form of hatred. I dont even know if its hatred Dragoness. I just know that that boy being followed by a grown man exiting a car, had EVERY BIT the right to feel a threat as that grown man sitting in the comfort of his car with a gun did. And the moment that man got out his car to follow the boy, he set in motion a chain of events where he had the upper hand with a deadly weapon,, a chain that was totally unnecessary and tragic. and with stand your ground laws,, who was legally 'required' to stand down? or do we just let all the people out there threatened by other peoples presence have at it,,,,no charges, no risk of consequence unless you are the one who dies? ,,,so sad,,, |
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there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? You really think this is evidence of manslaughter?
msharmony, you have no business determining guilt with such poor critical thinking skills. should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? This illustrates you do not even know how the law works.
murder is illegal, billy... no matter how you think you justify it... the boys death was caused by the others gun... and you wanna blame the boy? really? try this definition Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. so, would you not consider it 'reckless' to follow someone in the rain at night after being instructed by a police dispatcher not to? no, a paralegal though,, if it matters which it doesnt, when people are sharing opinions,,, |
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there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? You really think this is evidence of manslaughter?
msharmony, you have no business determining guilt with such poor critical thinking skills. should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? This illustrates you do not even know how the law works.
really? try this definition Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. so, would you not consider it 'reckless' to follow someone in the rain at night after being instructed by a police dispatcher not to? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 03/20/12 03:18 PM
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Right now on tv I'm watching the story... talking of the boy being on the phone with his girlfriend and hearing him (the boy) being confronted. Then a scuffle and the phone goes dead. The police have the phone, should be easy enough to verify. Thank you Ladylid. However it remains to be seen if a recording was retrieved. what would constitute 'hard evidence'? are you serious ? should 'hard evidence' be needed to prove he used self defense or to prove he didnt? is the girlfriends testimony just speculation too,, or would that be hard enough evidence? the only two people with HARD evidence , would be the two involved and one is dead, so we have to go with circumstantial evidence, which is what wins many more cases than the 'hard' evidence that is much harder to gather (especially in a neighborhood where noone went out to help someone crying for help) this was a senseless death, regardless of what other debate goes on,,,and as a mother it outrages me that people are so nonchalantly willing to just accept its validity,,, |
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sorry, not gonna happen, I hear this man on the phone call to a dispatcher, I hear him calling the boy an *******, I hear him complaining that they always get away, I hear him saying he is following the boy
on the 911 tape you hear him say he WAS following Martin. He did not say he was going to continue to follow him.
by his OWN words and actions, he hunted this boy,, whathever his reason, and now a boy is dead.,.. The statement the police have from Zimmerman has been corroborated by witnesses. (A statement we do not have available for our own conversation) THAT is more powerful evidence than your speculations. . . and we wonder why we have such a travesty of a justice system. Here we have outrage, and emotion guiding the public response. Asking to arrest a man based on emotions, and imagination, not facts. there is a grown man with a gun, who has been directed NOT to follow the boy, and then they arrive and the boy is unarmed and DEAD,,,what other facts should be needed to not blanketly label it self defense? |
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sorry, not gonna happen, I hear this man on the phone call to a dispatcher, I hear him calling the boy an *******, I hear him complaining that they always get away, I hear him saying he is following the boy
on the 911 tape you hear him say he WAS following Martin. He did not say he was going to continue to follow him.
by his OWN words and actions, he hunted this boy,, whathever his reason, and now a boy is dead.,.. The statement the police have from Zimmerman has been corroborated by witnesses. (A statement we do not have available for our own conversation) THAT is more powerful evidence than your speculations. witnesses corraborated they fought, big deal my speculation is based upon this mans words and actions, whether he was 'continuing' to follow him (Which would be a reason for him to ask that the police call him to find out where he is when they get there, as opposed to just meeting them by the mail box) or not his words imply he had a strong urge to not let someone 'get away' and that someone didnt,,, |
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Topic:
Believe in Dreams?
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I had a fearful dream last night and it spoilt my day. How much should christians believe in the efficacy of dreams. Who's the author of dreams, God or the devil? I personally think our dreams are the way our brain continues to function while we sleep and they are just stories our subconscious strings together from things that are on our mind or things we have been listening to or seeing ,,,, |
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Before weighing the story... Whos gun was it? (my watch carries only spray and speak techology). Who cried 'help'? the reports say the teen had just a cell phone, skittles and a pop, after returning from the store to try to finish watching the ball game my guess is , it was the 'watchmans' gun its not clear who cried help, but the watchman had 100 pounds on the teen and followed him,,,and (so far it seems) had a gun,,,, my guess would be that poor kid was crying out after some grown man followed and assaulted or tried to restrain him,,, the police also said not to bother the kid too...that would be a matter for the police, not a "watchman" The whole point of neighborhood watch is to watch people acting suspicious or people your not familiar with being in the neighborhood. What if this guy didn't follow him as instructed by the police and he broke into someones house and stole money, a gun to be used in a crime later or raped a woman who was home alone? Then everybody would be looking at this Zimmerman dude, its a lose lose situation for him at this point. they are not police, they are WATCHPEOPLE... they do not have any authority to act out as the police would. whether the kid was up to something or not, it would be a police matter, not a killing someone matter. all he had to do, which is his job anyway, is call the police and let them handle it. he was way out of bounds on this, and it should be charged as a hate crime. I don't know about FL law but here you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, your property or aid in the defense of a 3rd party. Again police only arrive after the fact 99.999% of the time. flordia is about the same, they are very self-protectant there... i have read stories were the car owners have shot people breaking in their car and was justified in the shooting... But i have to agree with MS on this, the watchman was being a cop wannabe. he had the police on the phone, all he had to do was stay back till the police got there, while still following. he never needed to confront the kid.. thank you. I feel so bad for his father who probably thought he lived in a 'safe' neighborhood and this boy who was walking from a store and being followed by some strange man,,,, Unless you two were there and in Zimmerman's shoes all I hear is speculation. I'm not defending him and know that the outrage is because a kid got killed, now I am waiting for the fraud in chief and his punk holder to jump on the bandwagon and the race card get pulled. oh come now, people dont just assume its 'speculation' when any other story breaks,, about what a bill says, or what or who a politician was doing or associated with, or any other of the thousands of issues we discuss here but this,, we should reserve speculation,,,,,, sorry, not gonna happen, I hear this man on the phone call to a dispatcher, I hear him calling the boy an *******, I hear him complaining that they always get away, I hear him saying he is following the boy by his OWN words and actions, he hunted this boy,, whathever his reason, and now a boy is dead.,... |
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yeah, this kid had the coward on his back after he followed and confronted him with a weapon, and because the kid ends up the one dead,, this grown man can claim he was just defending himself Who the hell are you to judge this situation? Where you there? Do you really have any facts, or are you just expressing outrage over the stories you have read which have imagined what happened without regard to the facts?
I am a mother with a son near his age who could have been walking home from that store and looking to this man like a 'suspicious' '*******' , whom he had the right to confront with a gun,,, thats who I am,,,, |
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Before weighing the story... Whos gun was it? (my watch carries only spray and speak techology). Who cried 'help'? the reports say the teen had just a cell phone, skittles and a pop, after returning from the store to try to finish watching the ball game my guess is , it was the 'watchmans' gun its not clear who cried help, but the watchman had 100 pounds on the teen and followed him,,,and (so far it seems) had a gun,,,, my guess would be that poor kid was crying out after some grown man followed and assaulted or tried to restrain him,,, the police also said not to bother the kid too...that would be a matter for the police, not a "watchman" The whole point of neighborhood watch is to watch people acting suspicious or people your not familiar with being in the neighborhood. What if this guy didn't follow him as instructed by the police and he broke into someones house and stole money, a gun to be used in a crime later or raped a woman who was home alone? Then everybody would be looking at this Zimmerman dude, its a lose lose situation for him at this point. they are not police, they are WATCHPEOPLE... they do not have any authority to act out as the police would. whether the kid was up to something or not, it would be a police matter, not a killing someone matter. all he had to do, which is his job anyway, is call the police and let them handle it. he was way out of bounds on this, and it should be charged as a hate crime. I don't know about FL law but here you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, your property or aid in the defense of a 3rd party. Again police only arrive after the fact 99.999% of the time. flordia is about the same, they are very self-protectant there... i have read stories were the car owners have shot people breaking in their car and was justified in the shooting... But i have to agree with MS on this, the watchman was being a cop wannabe. he had the police on the phone, all he had to do was stay back till the police got there, while still following. he never needed to confront the kid.. thank you. I feel so bad for his father who probably thought he lived in a 'safe' neighborhood and this boy who was walking from a store and being followed by some strange man,,,, |
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the gun is not irrelevant if it is the cause of the death the likeliness of this grown man, 100 pounds heavier than the teen and carrying a gun, telling a dispatcher that he is watching this boy, and following this boy, and then having this boy attack HIM , is low and even then, it wouldnt justify a shooting, if you are the person pursuing someone when they decide to defend THEMSELF thats why stand your ground is too vague,, which male had more of a right to do so in this case the teen walking from the store and not bothering the man or the man, departing from his car in the rain with a gun to follow the teen ? why shouldnt the teen have been scared too, or felt threatened,, if he felt threatened why wouldnt he be justified in defending himself too (without a weapon, the old fashioned way)? no,, the likelihood here is that an overvigilant man with a gun saw someone his mind said was 'suspicious' and wanted to make sure he didnt 'get away' yeah, this kid had the coward on his back after he followed and confronted him with a weapon, and because the kid ends up the one dead,, this grown man can claim he was just defending himself |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 03/20/12 02:57 PM
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The whole point of neighborhood watch is to watch people acting suspicious or people your not familiar with being in the neighborhood. What if this guy didn't follow him as instructed by the police and he broke into someones house and stole money, a gun to be used in a crime later or raped a woman who was home alone? Then everybody would be looking at this Zimmerman dude, its a lose lose situation for him at this point. no they wouldnt, they would look at police whose job it is to respond when neighborhood watch calls them if he had not been so aching to catch someone , he would not have imagined some possible crime scenario and approached a kid with a gun and the risk of taking that kids life,,,, Maybe 50 years ago, but today police are stretched too thin and show up after the fact 99.999% of the time so it is up to us to protect ourselves. thats exactly the kind of thinking that will get more innocent people killed ,, because they 'could' be on their way to commit a crime,,,,, That's your opinion! http://z6mag.com/featured/trayvon-martin-911-call-from-neighbors-and-zimmerman-audio-166633.html ;have them call me and I will let them know where Im at' implies he IS FOLLOWING , not remaining in one spot to wait for police yeah,, 'suspicious' people beware,, citizens are armed to protect themself from you (After they follow you,,,,) shame |
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