Actually what has always confused me. It is not just the book that seems to be required, it is also the Holy Spirit that is needed in order to INTERPRET, PROPERLY, the scriptures.

Perhaps this idea would hold a lot more power if, indeed, interpretation by those who insist they are guided by the HS, actually all came out the same.

But it doesn't - and it only takes a quick look at the all the various sects and denominations to see that the differences in "guidance" from the HS are significant enought to divide allegances.

Actually, I rather believe that there are 'leaders' (very few) who have determined how to translate and what spin to put on scripture and it's not even so much the Bible that is believed as it is THESE people in power, who have LED the interpretation.

Then all people have to do is say the Holy Spirit guided them, when in fact they simply followed the interpretation of another.

Two ideas that need each other to function, properly, and no possible way to back either one up.

I once asked my little brother a question and he surprisingly had the correct answer. (I don't even remember the question.)

The I asked him "How did you know that?"

He looked at me directly and very calmly said,

"I was born with the knowledge."

He was only five years old.

Many on here have stated that they "dont need or put their trust or faith" in the bible, that there trust/faith is in god through JC.

1) If, your faith and trust is in jesus then explain how you found out how to have faith and trust in him without the bible, or without ""someone who had read it"", passing that information on to you or other's?

after all - the christian new testament is only found within christianity? the muslims do not have it - the jew's neither? Neither of there concepts see JC as anymore than a man or a prophet at most?? so you certainly would not have gotten this faith and trust from there writing's?

2) Isn't it really true , that without the bible you read - you would not know anything of that which you put your faith and trust in?

3) Isn't it also just as true that as a christian you by your own belief's have to have trust and faith that the bible is "the word of god/JC/holy spirit?

and as you think on this - is the truth really that the only reason you believe in god/christ and all else is because you "first" "believed " in the ""word's of the book""? come on - be honest now, not with me - but yourselves. come on - YOU "need the book" - to support your own faith and trust and all else, why don't you just admit it instead of all the " my faith and trust is in JC/GOD - don't you realize how foolish and ignorant that appears to non christian's???

Oh My Tribo...This should be an interesting thread you devil.

As I told you before. You are more than welcome to come to my house and burn all my bibles. (I'll get the coffe going, we would have a lot to talk about while you are getting your flame thrower ready )



Even though my education in what I now believe started from the teachings in the Bible, you could take my Bible away today and my faith would remain the same. I can't unlearn what I already learned. Damage already done. I've been brain washed and have become completely sold out. I can learn more to add to what I already know.



Yes that is true. We all have to learn someplace. I learned from home and church. I was fortunate to have been raised in a Christian home. Christianity is what I was TAUGHT to believe. As a teenager, I HATED it so as soon as I was out of the house, I renounced Chriatianity. Eventually, once I pulled my nose out of the Bible, I found my way back. (Difficult to explain we will talk about it when you come over for coffee with your flame thrower)



No. Even though I DO believe that the Bible is the word of God. I do not believe you have to have trust and faith that the Bible is "the word of God" it just helps in most cases. I personally belive that you can read the Bible, consider them just stories but if you understand what is being taught and you take it to heart, I believe that people are capable of making the leap of faith that their is a God out there that does love and care for you and if you choose to live your life the way the Bible teaches, you will have a better life hear on earth. The rest...going to heaven...BONUS!



In order to have the belief system that I have today...yes I needed the Bible or someone who read the Bible to get me here. BUT now that I have already read the book, I don't have to have a physical copy on my coffee table for my faith to stand.

Now time to get really radical. I'm sure I'm gonna get kicked out the the Christian club now...

I don't think the Bible matters at all.

I read these threads and I see over and over again the lines being drawn in the sand. Christian / Non-Christian And never the twain shall meet. I think that is soooo foolish. I personally don't care what "God" you believe in or worship. It doesn't matter to me in the least because I am CONVINCED that there is only ONE GOD and if you wanna call him Budda, I AM, Alla or Zeus, I don't think it matters a hill of beans to Him either. I just think that he would like for you to call him. I think he would really like it if you recognized what he has done for you just like any other father. BUT just like any other father...if you don't...it doesn't matter cause he will love you anyway. I will even go a step further. Even though I am CONVINCED that there is only one God and the Biblical God is it but you were to prove me wrong and show me that that could not be possible that the only God that exists is Alla and Jesus was just a profit...or worse yet...never existed. OK...I'm wrong. I don't fear being wrong about what his name is or if Jesus actually did or did not die on that Cross. I know that I know that I know... GOD DOES EXIST and he LOVES ME. Anything above and beyond that is icing on the cake. It breaks my heart to heart non-Christians and Christians alike talk about my God as this big bully that is going to throw everyone to the pits of Hell because they don't "believe". I don't see God that way at all. He doesn't need anyone to believe in Him. HE KNOWS who he is. I don't think anyone needs to find Jesus...JESUS isn't LOST. There is only ONE God. That God loves ALL his children and that includes those who do not call themselves "Christian".


Peace and Love

cherub:

As I told you before. You are more than welcome to come to my house and burn all my bibles. (I'll get the coffe going, we would have a lot to talk about while you are getting your flame thrower ready )

tribo:

how are you going to make cofee til im there with the torch?? do you make fire with sticks my injun? bibles donot burn well they donot produce enough heat to warm womans feet - need much wampum to to buy good fire material.
Will we talk of the prarie tribes or cherokee - me - or how the civilized white christian killed all my people? hmmm? we will need many baked or fried goods to consume during battle strategies, much fire water and arrow's, and white mans fire sticks - and plenty of peace pipe smokes.

cherub:

Even though my education in what I now believe started from the teachings in the Bible, you could take my Bible away today and my faith would remain the same. I can't unlearn what I already learned. Damage already done. I've been brain washed and have become completely sold out. I can learn more to add to what I already know.

tribo:

you speak with forked tongue - white woman - book is not education - book is white man's story, not unlike false tales of shamuk the upright apeman, like him in our tradition's he has been handed down thru stories for centuries, but no one has seen him for many many moons now. we have strong medicines to take care of your damages - the root of the beer plant is one of many. yes we sold out also we had no choice, your chritian means of killing us off - were to strong - to many of you, with powerful lightning sticks, but you did not wipe us out completely, we still have our beliefs also - it is to late for you my non ""cherubkee"" you are no longer one of us to roam the open plain's and hunt for buffalo - you are up to your eye's in bull - hahaha

you have made your own personal point's cherubkee, may the wolves protect you as you continue your path to the great white god of the killer's of my people -

ps remember that's just you talking that is not what most have posted on here in the past-

QS:

God says heaven & earth will pass away but My words will remain forever.


if your god actually "spoke "word's" then he would be correct - in that sense when that is used in the book - it is meant that his vebalizations would not pass away - not that the words in the book would not - but the main thing here is that you would not know to state this without the book having contained the words you write. you say it's a road map and you dont worship it but god, yet without it you would not know how to worship your god or what he say's or how to worship him - your book is more than a road map - it is the very foundation on which you base your belief's - without it you would not know of god or jesus - get honest QS - you cant be a christian if it were not for "the book"

WOW! Actually...that's a profound thought. BINGO! Throughout time God revealed Himself to people who ANSWERED His call out to them. It's what I like to call "the road to Damascus" experience. That's what I'm talkin' about. Just because you haven't experienced that yet doesn't mean you won't. Faith....the substance of things HOPED FOR!!! That is exactly why God says to be patient with others who's eyes have not been opened yet.

my point is - you would not know of god/jesus to even reply to me "without the books content's" or someone repeating those things you write from the book! Again your "foundation" is the "book first"- all else comes after.

Well... the book would mean nothing if I didn't experience the life of His word. Did I grow up in the church...yes, but it has to have meaning for me to believe it. Don't think I didn't have struggles & doubts. It has to MEAN something to the reader. I get that about you. You can't believe what you haven't experienced. I get that. BTW...we have evolved...why shouldn't there be a compilation of God's word? You will never get rid of God...never. The devil thought so when he killed Christ... we all know what happened there.

QS:

Others can only point the way through - their example - & sharing "their faith". God instructs people of faith to share it with the world.

tribo:

dont you even look at what your posting????
all this is an after the fact - ok look this is how i read what you just posted- other's (who have read the words in the book) can only point the way ( that's stated within the book) through their example (which is written in the book) and sharing their "faith" ( which came about from reading or hearing what is in the book) to share (what is in the book) with the world. get my point now QS ???

Again... it means nothing to a person unless God reveals it to them. That's why God tells us to pray for people, even our enemies. ALL people.


QS:I never saw anyone say they don't need the bible..other than the pagans here

tribo:

and i've never seen a bible thumping believer not use it to do just what you've written here - thump the pagans as you say. and this is supposed to a) make us feel like your correct? b) make us feel your way is something we would choose to foolow by your example? c) make us listen to anything you would have to say and take you seriously? d) all of the above??

Well tribo...your gripe about what God is saying about other gods is not hate on my part. You, like many others here fail to realize that God's word is what it is. If you knew me you would not say such a thing... I keep it real in everything I do. I can't help that you don't like it when we Christians quote scripture. It's not only what we believe but experience in the spirit. That's why we know it's real. You seem to think we are thumbing our noses down on you...not the case...at all.

In any case...God bless...

cherub:

As I told you before. You are more than welcome to come to my house and burn all my bibles. (I'll get the coffe going, we would have a lot to talk about while you are getting your flame thrower ready )

tribo:

how are you going to make cofee til im there with the torch?? do you make fire with sticks my injun? bibles donot burn well they donot produce enough heat to warm womans feet - need much wampum to to buy good fire material.
Will we talk of the prarie tribes or cherokee - me - or how the civilized white christian killed all my people? hmmm? we will need many baked or fried goods to consume during battle strategies, much fire water and arrow's, and white mans fire sticks - and plenty of peace pipe smokes.

cherub:

Even though my education in what I now believe started from the teachings in the Bible, you could take my Bible away today and my faith would remain the same. I can't unlearn what I already learned. Damage already done. I've been brain washed and have become completely sold out. I can learn more to add to what I already know.

tribo:

you speak with forked tongue - white woman - book is not education - book is white man's story, not unlike false tales of shamuk the upright apeman, like him in our tradition's he has been handed down thru stories for centuries, but no one has seen him for many many moons now. we have strong medicines to take care of your damages - the root of the beer plant is one of many. yes we sold out also we had no choice, your chritian means of killing us off - were to strong - to many of you, with powerful lightning sticks, but you did not wipe us out completely, we still have our beliefs also - it is to late for you my non ""cherubkee"" you are no longer one of us to roam the open plain's and hunt for buffalo - you are up to your eye's in american bull - no more tonka for you - hahaha

you have made your own personal point's cherubkee, may the wolves protect you as you continue your path to the great white god of the killer's of my people -

ps remember that's just you talking that is not what most have posted on here in the past-

TRIBO!!!!!!!!!!This could be up for interpretation but I think I have you flat cold busted on something.

You stated that the bible is white man's story, but this is incorrect. Technically it is the story of an olive, tan, or brown man, stolen and altered by white man, and then further adapted by white man to eventually exclude the belief and culture of everyone but these white men, following what was the story of a non "white" man.

ok so that is a somewhat complicated statement and possibly inaccurate, but it holds truth.

i was just joking with cherubkee anyway hahaha - she's worth talking to - not so ingrained in the mistakes of her betheren so to say. she is good person accept for jesus hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

i was speaking as a cherokee my friend hahaha you are totally correct in your response - but the indians only knew of the "bobble" as a white mans book - they had no real knowledge of other races per e outside of spanish etc, when we really came and settled we were the white man who told of a white god even the pics were not of middle eatern looks but of european looks - so that's why i used the phraseology - i was just joking with cherubkee anyway hahaha - she's worth talking to - not so ingrained in the mistakes of her betheren so to say. she is good person accept for jesus hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thank you BB. Much respect right back at ya!

Time for me to hit the sack. Night all!

you sure your not a gnostic? - sounds like you believe you have "inside revelation" that all other's lack? funny that's a warning sign christians use to claim other's cultist- be careful with your secret knowledge oh high priestess, man thinks of himself more highly than he ought - or do you believe as other misleaders in your cult that you are a god also kenneth copeland benny hinn, hagan, and all the other fakes.

qs:

hahahahahahahaha Is that the best you can do? Call me a cultist???? LOL YOU! ARE TOO FUNNY

TRIBO

qs YOUR NOT WORTH MY TIME I HAVE BETER MORE ENJOYABLE THINGS TO DO THAN TALK WITH YOU ABOUT NOTHING IMPORTANT BYEEEEEEEE