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| Topic: The oldest bible has contradictions!! | |
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From the BBC website
What is probably the oldest known Bible is being digitised, reuniting its scattered parts for the first time since its discovery 160 years ago. It is markedly different from its modern equivalent. What's left out? The world's oldest surviving Bible is in bits. For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery, until it was found - or stolen, as the monks say - in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany and Britain. Now these different parts are to be united online and, from next July, anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access will be able to view the complete text and read a translation. For those who believe the Bible is the inerrant, unaltered word of God, there will be some very uncomfortable questions to answer. It shows there have been thousands of alterations to today's bible. The Codex, probably the oldest Bible we have, also has books which are missing from the Authorised Version that most Christians are familiar with today - and it does not have crucial verses relating to the Resurrection. Anti-Semitic writings The fact this book has survived at all is a miracle. Before its discovery in the early 19th Century by the Indiana Jones of his day, it remained hidden in St Catherine's Monastery since at least the 4th Century. It survived because the desert air is ideal for preservation and because the monastery, on a Christian island in a Muslim sea, remained untouched, its walls unconquered. Today, 30 mainly Greek Orthodox monks, dedicated to prayer, worship there, helped as in ages past by the Muslim Bedouin. For this place is holy to three great religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam; a land where you can still see the Burning Bush where God spoke to Moses. The monastery itself has the greatest library of early manuscripts outside the Vatican - some 33,000, and a collection of icons second to none. Not surprisingly, it is now a World Heritage Site and has been called a veritable Ark, bringing spiritual treasures safely through the turbulent centuries. In many people's eyes the greatest treasure is the Codex, written in the time of the first Christian Emperor Constantine. When the different parts are digitally united next year in a £1m project, anyone will be able to compare and contrast the Codex and the modern Bible. Firstly, the Codex contains two extra books in the New Testament. One is the little-known Shepherd of Hermas, written in Rome in the 2nd Century - the other, the Epistle of Barnabas. This goes out of its way to claim that it was the Jews, not the Romans, who killed Jesus, and is full of anti-Semitic kindling ready to be lit. "His blood be upon us," Barnabas has the Jews cry. Discrepancies Had this remained in subsequent versions, "the suffering of Jews in the subsequent centuries would, if possible, have been even worse", says the distinguished New Testament scholar Professor Bart Ehrman. And although many of the other alterations and differences are minor, these may take some explaining for those who believe every word comes from God. Faced with differing texts, which is the truly authentic one? Mr Ehrman was a born again Bible-believing Evangelical until he read the original Greek texts and noticed some discrepancies. The Bible we now use can't be the inerrant word of God, he says, since what we have are the sometimes mistaken words copied by fallible scribes. "When people ask me if the Bible is the word of God I answer 'which Bible?'" The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief. Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be "angry" as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with "compassion". Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone. Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". Fundamentalists, who believe every word in the Bible is true, may find these differences unsettling. But the picture is complicated. Some argue that another early Bible, the Codex Vaticanus, is in fact older. And there are other earlier texts of almost all the books in the bible, though none pulled together into a single volume. Many Christians have long accepted that, while the Bible is the authoritative word of God, it is not inerrant. Human hands always make mistakes. "It should be regarded as a living text, something constantly changing as generation and generation tries to understand the mind of God," says David Parker, a Christian working on digitising the Codex. Others may take it as more evidence that the Bible is the word of man, not God. |
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WHAT?! THE BIBLE?! CONTRADICTIONS?!
omg. DO THE AUTHORITIES KNOW ABOUT THIS?!  How could the inerrant word of God have inconsistencies? Easy! To make us think. So, there will never be an end to such silliness. Have at it. Just do so respectfully and learn something about yourself, others, and God. Then it's all good. God told me it was "OK". 
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Like when the DVD comes out, with the
gag reel, and different endings, and deleted scenes. |
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Others may take it as more evidence that the Bible is the word of man, not God. It never ceases to amaze me that anyone in their right mind could have every believed that the Bible was the word of the supreme being that created this universe. What kind of a "God" would ask people to stone each other to death all the time for a myriad of reasons? What kind of a "God" would instruct people to mass murder heathens including their women and children and even the entire towns from whence they came? These words are clearly the words of men, not any ultra intelligent surpreme being. How anyone could believe that God is as rude, crude, and as outright as ignorant as the Bible suggests is totally beyond me. The mere fact that people in the 21st century are still considering that this ancient crude account of God might have any validity at all is truly depressing. It's scary that people in such a highly technological age are this naive. To think that the person who has access to armies with nuclear warheads actually beleves in a God who directs people to mass murder heathens is something that should be a serious concern for all mankind. This is beyond stupid. 
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 10/06/08 08:20 PM
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Even the bible itself states, that there would not be enough books in the world, to contain all the miracles and good works and all that happened....
However the bible ALSO states, that any who add or take away from this book.... Remember reading that part,Belushi? ( In Revelations..I 'll let you find it). The Bible ( the Divinely Inspired Word of God) has survived (and not all these other writings)for a reason.... Think Belushi... There are NO Contradictions in God's Word. EVERY Question has a Answer, IF You take the Time to Study and Rightly Divide the Word of God. God Makes NO Mistakes in His Word. Man just makes mistakes INTERPRETING God's Word. God is a BIG ENOUGH GOD to WATCH OVER His WORD !!!! God IS the WORD. Be Blessed Now... 
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Even the bible itself states, that there would not be enough books in the world, to contain all the miracles and good works and all that happened.... However the bible ALSO states, that any who add or take away from this book.... Remember reading that part,Belushi? ( In Revelations..I 'll let you find it). The Bible ( the Divinely Inspired Word of God) has survived (and not all these other writings)for a reason.... Think Belushi... There are NO Contradictions in God's Word. EVERY Question has a Answer, IF You take the Time to Study and Rightly Divide the Word of God. God Makes NO Mistakes in His Word. Man just makes mistakes INTERPRETING God's Word. God is a BIG ENOUGH GOD to WATCH OVER His WORD !!!! God is the WORD. Be Blessed Now... if every question has an answer why does god let atrocities be committed in his name? |
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God gave man a free will...to interfere with man's free will that God gave him, God would have to go against His Word.
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thats fine. why doesnt he come down and say hey" stop killing in my name, keep killing, but leave me out of it." and why does he let little babies die of sicknesses? why do we have cancer and HIV and any other number of deadly diseases?
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He already came down and left us a legacy..His Word....
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im sorry but that does not answer my question, i read the bible loved the bible, it has awesome stories in it, but it doesnt answer crap for me. lol. no offense. i have a very philisophical mind and i can understand the basis of every religion but christianity and buddhism and judaeism and islam.
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The Bible ( the Divinely Inspired Word of God) has survived (and not all these other writings)for a reason.... The reason the current version has become so popular is because the men who wrote that version enforced it with the sword and the threat of death to anyone who might question it. The fact that it has been so brutally enforced has nothing at all to do with any divine cause. Do have any clue at all MorningSong about reality? Do you realize that only a few centuries ago a very brilliant man named Isaac Newton discovered that that the Bible could not be true as it was currently being interpreted? Do you realize that only a few centuries ago Isaac Newton could not make his discoveries known because had he done so he could have risked being hung, or at the very least imprisoned? Freedom of religion is something that you now see around you in today's world. But it wasn't always like that. In fact, for the vast majority of the past 2000 years you would risk death to even suggest that the Bible might not be the word of God. That's not divine power keeping the religion going MorningSong. That's the threats of very egotistical men who won't stand for anyone to question their authority. It's has nothing to do with God's authority. Moreover, historians have discovered that in the years after the Jesus rumor began there were many different "Christians". There were many different views on who Jesus was. Many of them saw Jesus much like Buddha. Just a man, not a divine being. They were "Christians" who followed the teachings of Jesus just like "Buddhists" following the teachings of Buddha. There were many different rumors. It is believed by man historians that when the "gospels" that we know of today were actually written, they were written for the purpose of lending creedence to a specific rumor that was favored by the authoritarians who had the most control over the people. The Christianity that you believe you know today may very well have had nothing at all to do with the actual man named Jesus! That's a fact MorningSong. Sure, it's possible that the version in the Bible is true. But it's actually highly unlikely. More to the point, know one can know. So why do you insist on claiming that the Bible is the word of God when in fact you can't know this? If you choose to believe it yourself, that's one thing. But to tell other people that it is the word of God is to claim to know something that you can't possibly know. Why would you even do a thing like that? Why would you claim that a book that is over 2000 years old is the word of God when you can't possibly know this to be true? It's entirely a faith-based belief system. If you want to believe that it is a true story verbatim that's certainly your perogative. But to tell other people that this book is the infaliable word of the creator of this universe when you can't possible know that this is true, it genuinely not a nice thing to do. You're making claims that you can't possible know are true. That's lying MorningSong. Think about it! God is a BIG ENOUGH GOD to WATCH OVER His WORD !!!! You might like to believe that, but the truth is that historians are discovering that there were many different versions. So which one was God supposedly watching over? The one that was used as an excuse by authoritarians to slaughter heathens? Is that what God is like? A bloodthirsty deity who is out to kill anyone who doesn't believe in his book? That's not a very pretty picture of a God MorningSong. If you want to claim that God is responsible for the popularity of the most popular version of the Bible, then you must also believe that God is directly responsible for the crusades, the witch hunts, and even slavery! If that's what God is like, then he isn't much better than Adolf Hitler IMHO. Clearly men are responsible for forcing the Bible down the throats of their victims and slaves. Not God. The Bible has nothing to do with God. No one in their right mind should want the biblical portrait of God to be true. That would be horrible. It's a terrible picture of a bigoted angry male chauvanistic God. Let's all pray to the powers that be that this is indeed the case! We don't need a male chauvanistic God who lusts for atrocities and tells people to stone each other to death. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 10/06/08 08:49 PM
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Bergeia....read it again and THIS time, ask God to open up your eyes and ears of Understanding of His Word..and God Will....Promise.
 The Bible is Sooooo Deep and Rich in Meaning and Wisdom and Understanding....one could study it for a lifetime, and never get all the rich meaning out of this book called the Bible.... There is LIFE in the Word... Goodnite Precious....Be Blessed Now..
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K. I got curious and Googled.
Codex Sinaiticus The New Testament Translated from the Sinaitic Manuscript Discovered by Constantine Tischendorf at Mt. Sinai By H. T. Anderson (1861) Including The Shepherd of Hermas, The Epistle of Barnabas http://www.sinaiticus.com/ |
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From the BBC website What is probably the oldest known Bible is being digitised, reuniting its scattered parts for the first time since its discovery 160 years ago. It is markedly different from its modern equivalent. What's left out? The world's oldest surviving Bible is in bits. For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery, until it was found - or stolen, as the monks say - in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany and Britain. Now these different parts are to be united online and, from next July, anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access will be able to view the complete text and read a translation. For those who believe the Bible is the inerrant, unaltered word of God, there will be some very uncomfortable questions to answer. It shows there have been thousands of alterations to today's bible. The Codex, probably the oldest Bible we have, also has books which are missing from the Authorised Version that most Christians are familiar with today - and it does not have crucial verses relating to the Resurrection. Anti-Semitic writings The fact this book has survived at all is a miracle. Before its discovery in the early 19th Century by the Indiana Jones of his day, it remained hidden in St Catherine's Monastery since at least the 4th Century. It survived because the desert air is ideal for preservation and because the monastery, on a Christian island in a Muslim sea, remained untouched, its walls unconquered. Today, 30 mainly Greek Orthodox monks, dedicated to prayer, worship there, helped as in ages past by the Muslim Bedouin. For this place is holy to three great religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam; a land where you can still see the Burning Bush where God spoke to Moses. The monastery itself has the greatest library of early manuscripts outside the Vatican - some 33,000, and a collection of icons second to none. Not surprisingly, it is now a World Heritage Site and has been called a veritable Ark, bringing spiritual treasures safely through the turbulent centuries. In many people's eyes the greatest treasure is the Codex, written in the time of the first Christian Emperor Constantine. When the different parts are digitally united next year in a £1m project, anyone will be able to compare and contrast the Codex and the modern Bible. Firstly, the Codex contains two extra books in the New Testament. One is the little-known Shepherd of Hermas, written in Rome in the 2nd Century - the other, the Epistle of Barnabas. This goes out of its way to claim that it was the Jews, not the Romans, who killed Jesus, and is full of anti-Semitic kindling ready to be lit. "His blood be upon us," Barnabas has the Jews cry. Discrepancies Had this remained in subsequent versions, "the suffering of Jews in the subsequent centuries would, if possible, have been even worse", says the distinguished New Testament scholar Professor Bart Ehrman. And although many of the other alterations and differences are minor, these may take some explaining for those who believe every word comes from God. Faced with differing texts, which is the truly authentic one? Mr Ehrman was a born again Bible-believing Evangelical until he read the original Greek texts and noticed some discrepancies. The Bible we now use can't be the inerrant word of God, he says, since what we have are the sometimes mistaken words copied by fallible scribes. "When people ask me if the Bible is the word of God I answer 'which Bible?'" The Codex - and other early manuscripts - do not mention the ascension of Jesus into heaven, and omit key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief. Other differences concern how Jesus behaved. In one passage of the Codex, Jesus is said to be "angry" as he healed a leper, whereas the modern text records him as healing with "compassion". Also missing is the story of the woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned - until Jesus rebuked the Pharisees (a Jewish sect), inviting anyone without sin to cast the first stone. Nor are there words of forgiveness from the cross. Jesus does not say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". Fundamentalists, who believe every word in the Bible is true, may find these differences unsettling. But the picture is complicated. Some argue that another early Bible, the Codex Vaticanus, is in fact older. And there are other earlier texts of almost all the books in the bible, though none pulled together into a single volume. Many Christians have long accepted that, while the Bible is the authoritative word of God, it is not inerrant. Human hands always make mistakes. "It should be regarded as a living text, something constantly changing as generation and generation tries to understand the mind of God," says David Parker, a Christian working on digitising the Codex. Others may take it as more evidence that the Bible is the word of man, not God. Or maybe it is the Word of God tampered with by men. There are countless volumes on record at the Hammadi Library that were written by the Apostles that were also not listed in the final canon. |
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Bergeia....read it again and THIS time, ask God to open up your eyes ans ears of understanding to His Word..and God Will....Promise. The Bible is sooooo deep and rich in meaning and wisdom and understanding....one could study it for a lifetime, and never get all the rich meaning out of this book called the Bible.... Goodnite Precious....Be Blessed Now.. im touched by how concerned you are, truly. but honey, thats a weakness in this day. lol. if god's real let him show me, just the tiniest sign. that hes real. move a pencil off a desk, let me see a true ghost of a relative. im not one to give my self easily, im not a sheep i refuse to give my soul,my money, and my life to something that probably doesnt exist. believeing in something does not make it real! lol. it just doesnt! religion was formed because man had a need to explain things, well now we have science, god can take a back seat and relax,lol. we need to realize there is no afterlife, no god, no angels no devil. theyre all euphamisms. they filled their role, made the sun rise and set, now its the earth's rotations turn,lol. |
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Bergeia....read it again and THIS time, ask God to open up your eyes and ears of Understanding of His Word..and God Will....Promise. The Bible is Sooooo Deep and Rich in Meaning and Wisdom and Understanding....one could study it for a lifetime, and never get all the rich meaning out of this book called the Bible.... There is LIFE in the Word... Goodnite Precious....Be Blessed Now.. I tend to agree with you to a degree. But how could anyone deny the credibility of books written by the Apostles. Hermas I might have issues with as he was a convert long after the time of Christ. But how can any Christian deny the words of men who walked and sat at the feet of Jesus. Were there are those who would question how any "thinking" person could believe the Bible...I would question their person views when as bergeia pointed out God (whatever the form) does give signs to individuals all the time. I wouldn't got so far as a pencil falling, but there are still signs big and small all the time. Where the view of the organized church of today seems skewed in their beliefs....I do take my hat off to anyone who professes faith and actually lives by the commissions of that belief system. |
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Edited by
bergeia
on
Mon 10/06/08 09:26 PM
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Bergeia....read it again and THIS time, ask God to open up your eyes and ears of Understanding of His Word..and God Will....Promise. The Bible is Sooooo Deep and Rich in Meaning and Wisdom and Understanding....one could study it for a lifetime, and never get all the rich meaning out of this book called the Bible.... There is LIFE in the Word... Goodnite Precious....Be Blessed Now.. I tend to agree with you to a degree. But how could anyone deny the credibility of books written by the Apostles. Hermas I might have issues with as he was a convert long after the time of Christ. But how can any Christian deny the words of men who walked and sat at the feet of Jesus. Were there are those who would question how any "thinking" person could believe the Bible...I would question their person views when as bergeia pointed out God (whatever the form) does give signs to individuals all the time. I wouldn't got so far as a pencil falling, but there are still signs big and small all the time. Where the view of the organized church of today seems skewed in their beliefs....I do take my hat off to anyone who professes faith and actually lives by the commissions of that belief system. what signs though? i see none, i see science and life and physics. nothing more. as for those great apostles, didnt one of them betray jesus? seems theyre not infallible either..... hmmmmmmmmmmm btw are those space marines in your pic? lol |
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Bergeia....read it again and THIS time, ask God to open up your eyes and ears of Understanding of His Word..and God Will....Promise. The Bible is Sooooo Deep and Rich in Meaning and Wisdom and Understanding....one could study it for a lifetime, and never get all the rich meaning out of this book called the Bible.... There is LIFE in the Word... Goodnite Precious....Be Blessed Now.. I tend to agree with you to a degree. But how could anyone deny the credibility of books written by the Apostles. Hermas I might have issues with as he was a convert long after the time of Christ. But how can any Christian deny the words of men who walked and sat at the feet of Jesus. Were there are those who would question how any "thinking" person could believe the Bible...I would question their person views when as bergeia pointed out God (whatever the form) does give signs to individuals all the time. I wouldn't got so far as a pencil falling, but there are still signs big and small all the time. Where the view of the organized church of today seems skewed in their beliefs....I do take my hat off to anyone who professes faith and actually lives by the commissions of that belief system. what signs though? i see none, i see science and life and physics. nothing more. as for those great apostles, didnt one of them betray jesus? seems theyre not infallible either..... hmmmmmmmmmmm btw are those space marines in your pic? lol glad ya like da pic lol I enjoy it as well. The facts are these yes Judas did betray Jesus....but Jesus also foretold it. As for signs well they are there if you seek them. I don't discount anyones right to believe what they wish but then again to that becomes a two way street. On that street each to his or her own. As I said before anyone who has faith and applies the teachings my hat is off to them. What I can't handle people who say oe thing and do the direct opposite |
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well i agree, i ahte people who do that also, none the less every 'gift" and sign as you said can be explained rationally with science, where is the completely unexplainable miracle that makes me jump for joy and KNOW that there is something beyond this life? ive never seen nor heard of it.
(thats like a 1st edition pic,lol, i only been in it since 2nd) |
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well i agree, i ahte people who do that also, none the less every 'gift" and sign as you said can be explained rationally with science, where is the completely unexplainable miracle that makes me jump for joy and KNOW that there is something beyond this life? ive never seen nor heard of it. (thats like a 1st edition pic,lol, i only been in it since 2nd) I sincerly hope someday you get some level of evidence that you haven't seen yet 
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