Community > Science & Philosophy

Topic: Does time truly exist?
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 08:06 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 08:08 AM
1) What is it that is vibrating? What is the medium through which the waves are propagated? 2) What is causing it to vibrate? What is the source of the vibrations? Sky, I am attempting to find the answer to your questions above. 1a. What is it that is vibrating? a. Matter vibrates. I found this on my favorite website: Space itself is very very rigid (to explain such high velocity waves). It does not 'flow' like water - it is a continuously connected wave medium (there are no parts / particles in its structure). Matter is really just spherically vibrating Space. This is why all matter vibrates and has a resonant frequency 1b.)What is the medium through which the waves are propagated? b. Space 2) What is causing it to vibrate? What is the source of the vibrations? The source of the vibrations in matter are waves. ********************************************* The Motion of the Wave-Center 'Particle' For a moving wave center 'particle' the spherical in-wave forms in one position in space (as waves combine), then disappears (as waves cancel) then the next spherical in-wave forms in a slightly different position, and so on .... So matter really moves in discrete little steps (like frames of a film) but it appears continuous due to the high 'frame rate' / frequency. This is what quantum theory discovered - but never understood! ******************************************* Sounds like we are inside of a 3D holographic movie of light and sound to me. *********************************************** According to that website, space is the medium, Space vibrates and matter is made up of the standing waves (i.e. interactions of waves) within the medium of space. So it’s not matter that vibrates. It is the medium (space) that vibrates. I understand all that. But I still don’t understand what it is that causes all the waves. What is it that causes the medium to vibrate? All of the pictorial models show waves travelling through a medium. But there’s nothing that tells where or from what the waves emanate. You said it was matter, but that can’t be true because the whole theory is based on the idea that matter is the manifestation of the interactions of opposing waves. Matter is the effect of the waves, not the cause. So I still don’t get what it is that is creating the waves. I'm glad you asked that question. I said that matter vibrates. It vibrates because the standing waves are all interacting. What causes the waves? My theory: Consciousness. Thoughts are waves. The waves are the movement of consciousness throughout the body of the universe which is alive. ITS ALIVE!!!

freeonthree Joined Tue 06/19/07 Posts: 2407	Sat 12/20/08 08:08 AM Edited by freeonthree on Sat 12/20/08 08:10 AM
Does time as we know it truly exist? Only until the battery goes dead.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 10:53 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 10:55 AM
SKY, I believe that the universe that we live in is alive. Just as our body is alive, and millions of bacteria live in it. In fact, our body is loaded with both beneficial and harmful bacteria. The universe is alive. It thinks. It's inhabitants also think. That life is consciousness. ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE!ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE!ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE!

quiet_2008 Joined Sat 08/30/08 Posts: 11138	Sat 12/20/08 10:58 AM
strong with you the force is

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Sat 12/20/08 11:29 AM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Sat 12/20/08 11:34 AM
SKY, I believe that the universe that we live in is alive. Just as our body is alive, and millions of bacteria live in it. In fact, our body is loaded with both beneficial and harmful bacteria. The universe is alive. It thinks. It's inhabitants also think. That life is consciousness. I understand that viewpiont. (Well, I don't really understand it, but I accept the expression of it.) When I think of "alive" I equate "life" with what amounts to free will. That is, in order for something to be "alive" it must posess the ability to decide or to choose or to form an opinion. "The universe" cannot do that. Only "people" can do that. Now if you are defining life as simply "motion", then ok, I can see how the universe would be "alive" simply because all sub-atomic particles are constantly in motion. And as far as "thinking" goes... Well, if you believe that a computer program "thinks", then I guess you could say the universe "thinks". But to me "thinking" is not a thing that life does. It is a thing that the stimulus-response mechanism called "the mind" does, under the direction of "life".

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Sat 12/20/08 12:21 PM Edited by creativesoul on Sat 12/20/08 12:22 PM
Nevermind watering the trees then? ...all in good fun...

quiet_2008 Joined Sat 08/30/08 Posts: 11138	Sat 12/20/08 12:26 PM
I said that matter vibrates. It vibrates because the standing waves are all interacting. it's the Raman Effect

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 12:32 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 12:36 PM
SKY, I believe that the universe that we live in is alive. Just as our body is alive, and millions of bacteria live in it. In fact, our body is loaded with both beneficial and harmful bacteria. The universe is alive. It thinks. It's inhabitants also think. That life is consciousness. I understand that viewpiont. (Well, I don't really understand it, but I accept the expression of it.) When I think of "alive" I equate "life" with what amounts to free will. That is, in order for something to be "alive" it must posess the ability to decide or to choose or to form an opinion. "The universe" cannot do that. Only "people" can do that. How do you know that the Universe cannot decide or choose or form opinions? I think it can and does. 1.) I believe that the will is just the will. It is always "free" if it chooses to be. 2. I define "alive" as the will to exist, the will to be. ("To be or not to be,that is the question!") 3. The Universe is a body that is alive. It has a mind. Its mind is the "Universal mind." Just like us, who have a body and mind, the universe has a soul or spirit. This spirit is conscious and it can decide and choose and form opinions. Now if you are defining life as simply "motion", then ok, I can see how the universe would be "alive" simply because all sub-atomic particles are constantly in motion. And as far as "thinking" goes... Well, if you believe that a computer program "thinks", then I guess you could say the universe "thinks". But to me "thinking" is not a thing that life does. It is a thing that the stimulus-response mechanism called "the mind" does, under the direction of "life". You are right, the mind does not think. Its type of thinking is automated and automatic. Just like the thinking that our unconscious does. A mind, and a computer processes information. That information comes from all kinds of sources and programs that are put into use. The unconscious is a mind that gathers information and processes it for use. I agree with you that "life" is what thinks. Therefore the thinker (where a computer is concerned) is the user. (not the initial programer.) With the body, (our body and the body of the universe) spirit is the user, and spirit is consciousness. That is "life." There are many kinds of "thinking," on all levels. The more complex the machine (or body) the more different levels of thinking, both conscious and unconscious is going on. Probably some that would be hard pressed to be defined as "thinking" as we define it because it is limited in information and consciousness which occupies bodies (and matter) in degrees.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Sat 12/20/08 01:01 PM
When I think of "alive" I equate "life" with what amounts to free will. That is, in order for something to be "alive" it must possess the ability to decide or to choose or to form an opinion. "The universe" cannot do that. Only "people" can do that. How do you know that the Universe cannot decide or choose or form opinions? I think it can and does. 1.) I believe that the will is just the will. It is always "free" if it chooses to be. 2. I define "alive" as the will to exist, the will to be. ("To be or not to be,that is the question!") 3. The Universe is a body that is alive. It has a mind. Its mind is the "Universal mind." Just like us, who have a body and mind, the universe has a soul or spirit. This spirit is conscious and it can decide and choose and form opinions. Ok, let me rephrase my statement: I have not observed the universe doing anything like what I would call deciding or choosing or forming opinions. All I have observed is a strictly deterministic stimulus-response mechanism.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 01:26 PM
When I think of "alive" I equate "life" with what amounts to free will. That is, in order for something to be "alive" it must possess the ability to decide or to choose or to form an opinion. "The universe" cannot do that. Only "people" can do that. How do you know that the Universe cannot decide or choose or form opinions? I think it can and does. 1.) I believe that the will is just the will. It is always "free" if it chooses to be. 2. I define "alive" as the will to exist, the will to be. ("To be or not to be,that is the question!") 3. The Universe is a body that is alive. It has a mind. Its mind is the "Universal mind." Just like us, who have a body and mind, the universe has a soul or spirit. This spirit is conscious and it can decide and choose and form opinions. Ok, let me rephrase my statement: I have not observed the universe doing anything like what I would call deciding or choosing or forming opinions. All I have observed is a strictly deterministic stimulus-response mechanism. Then you are saying that you can only believe or surmise or consider those things which you have personally observed? My theory arises from my own personal logic and from the belief that "as above, so below." And that life comes from life. If the universe were dead, then how might it support life? So I decide that the universe must be alive. As my body is not the true me, and I have a mind, so I decided that the body of the universe is not the entire or truth of the universe..so it must also have a mind. And as my mind is not the true me, I feel I have a soul or spirit, so too must the universe have a soul or spirit to be truly alive. As I am a universe unto myself with many living things finding life on and within my body, (bacteria etc.) so must the universe be a living self.

Jess642 Joined Sat 03/31/07 Posts: 22732	Sat 12/20/08 01:29 PM
How old is time? >.< this old.

quiet_2008 Joined Sat 08/30/08 Posts: 11138	Sat 12/20/08 01:36 PM
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today And then one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 02:28 PM
Nevermind watering the trees then? ...all in good fun... I only water the baby trees that I planted in my yard. The big ones seem to find their own water.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 02:29 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 02:30 PM
ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE!ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE!ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! NEVER MIND ME... I get a big kick out of myself sometimes.

burgundybry Joined Mon 03/05/07 Posts: 8084	Sat 12/20/08 02:31 PM
at the tone, the time will be...(insert your chosen time here)

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Sat 12/20/08 03:23 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Sat 12/20/08 03:27 PM
Then you are saying that you can only believe or surmise or consider those things which you have personally observed? No, not at all. I also believe things that I have extrapolated from things I have observed. (Note: receiving information via communication from others is included under the heading of "observation".) My theory arises from my own personal logic and from the belief that "as above, so below." And that life comes from life. Ok, our beliefs are different there. If the universe were dead, then how might it support life? The same way a sandbox “supports” play. The sandbox is there because it was put there and it has its attributes and properties and mechanism because it was created that way. Yes, the sandbox “supports” play by providing a place in which to play. But the sandbox does not “play”. The sandbox has no “life”. “Life” is a quality of the people who play in the sandbox. So I decide that the universe must be alive. As my body is not the true me, and I have a mind, so I decided that the body of the universe is not the entire or truth of the universe..so it must also have a mind. And as my mind is not the true me, I feel I have a soul or spirit, so too must the universe have a soul or spirit to be truly alive. As I am a universe unto myself with many living things finding life on and within my body, (bacteria etc.) so must the universe be a living self. I differentiate between the deterministic nature of the universe and the non-deterministic nature of life. To me life is not a physical thing at all. The physical manifestations that science calls “life” are, to me, no more “life” than is a car that is being driven down the road. Life is in control of the car and is directing the cars actions, but the car is not “life”. The car is a machine. The driver is “life”.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 03:27 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 03:29 PM
I don't think it is easy to divide what is life from what is not life. I don't think anything is dead. I guess I am like the native Americans, to me, everything is alive. ITS ALL ALIVE! ITS ALL ALIVE! ITS ALL ALIVE! ITS ALL ALIVE! ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE I SAY!

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Sat 12/20/08 03:48 PM
I don't think it is easy to divide what is life from what is not life. I don't think anything is dead. I guess I am like the native Americans, to me, everything is alive. Ok, I can see we have different definitions for "life". So I assume then that to you, some life is deterministic and some life is non-determinstic. Is that correct?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 12/20/08 03:56 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 12/20/08 04:04 PM
I don't think it is easy to divide what is life from what is not life. I don't think anything is dead. I guess I am like the native Americans, to me, everything is alive. Ok, I can see we have different definitions for "life". So I assume then that to you, some life is deterministic and some life is non-determinstic. Is that correct? Yes. Lower forms of life serve as building blocks. Not so much deterministic as useful.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Sat 12/20/08 04:11 PM
I don't think it is easy to divide what is life from what is not life. I don't think anything is dead. I guess I am like the native Americans, to me, everything is alive. Ok, I can see we have different definitions for "life". So I assume then that to you, some life is deterministic and some life is non-determinstic. Is that correct? Yes. Lower forms of life serve as building blocks. So I assume that "lower life forms" refers to the determinisitic life. Then, as the lower (deterministic) life forms combine into more and more complex systems (life forms), at some point, the entire system becomes non-deteministic. Is that right?