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Topic: Evolution Is it Compatible With THE BIBLE?
MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 01/10/09 01:47 PM







Contradiction:

Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

Thats clearly contradictory even without the Ishmael/Issac issue



bigsmile Thanks for reminding me of that.bigsmileHe had those sons AFTER his wife died and after Isaac and Ishmael were born.flowerforyou Isaac and Ishmael are the 2 most people remember because thats what all the controversy was about.drinker


No the "contradiction" is that in the bible itself, it clearly states that Abraham has ONLY one son. Then it states that he has more than one son. That is the contradiction. I have posted this several times now. Thats why I am pointing this out since people only seem to think that there was Issac Thats because the bible is contradictory on that point.
:smile: It means that he had one HEIR.:smile:In the ancient times the oldest son by a mans lawful wife got everything and the other children didnt get much.:smile:


That is irrelevant. If that were the case, then whoever wrote this probably should have been smart enough to indicate that. Nope. Instead he wrote Abraham had ONLY one son, then in several other passages, he writes well actually Abraham has this and this and this son.

You cant do that.

Its whats referred to as a "continuity flaw." bigsmile
:smile: Whoever wrote it probably had a vested interest.:smile:


I agree with you there. I suspect it was a Jewish transcriber who wanted to place all of the emphasis on Issac.
:smile: yes Krimsa, and the Koran says it was Ishamel.:smile:

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/10/09 01:50 PM
Well their invisible man must be better then. Thats all there is too it. :tongue: Its absurd all this deference given to a ridiculous book with a whole lot of errors. Not just the bible but the Koran and the Book of Mormon as well.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 01/10/09 01:57 PM

Well their invisible man must be better then. Thats all there is too it. :tongue: Its absurd all this deference given to a ridiculous book with a whole lot of errors. Not just the bible but the Koran and the Book of Mormon as well.
:smile: (Percieved)Contradictions and riddles are part and parcel of holy scriptures.:smile: Because they were written by humans and humans are contradictory.:smile: The holy scriptures are about humans.:smile: Also a lot of this has to do with flawed translations.:smile:

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/10/09 02:02 PM
Edited by Krimsa on Sat 01/10/09 02:03 PM
Okay here is another "Perceived Contradiction". Its already been posted but no one tackled it.

Is it wrong to commit adultery?

YES

Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Hebrews 13:4
Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge

NO (At least under certain circumstances)

Numbers 31:18
But all the women children that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Hosea 1:2
And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms....

Hosea 3:1
Then said the Lord unto me, God yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress.

no photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:14 PM
I guess I don't get why you think any of those statements means that adultery is a good thing. So far as I can tell you have not given any examples of God saying that adultery is good.

no photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=80BF4534CD05C88A

A Christian geneticist explains why he is a Christian and why he believes in Evolution.

The speaker is Dr. Francis Collins, who is one of the world's most highly respected Geneticists. He was the head of the Human Genome project during their decoding of the Human Genome and has a Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry and his M.D.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:19 PM
No. I was demonstrating a contradiction. It is permissible and then it isn’t permissible in several passages.

no photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:36 PM
It's really important before one wades into a subject, that one understands the subject.

The book of Hosea doesn't propose that Adultery is right. It is clearly wrong, but Hosea was told to marry a whore to teach a lesson to Israel. It's really unfortunate that such a clear lesson of love and forgiveness is twisted in this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Hosea

Krimsa,

Please, for your sake, be intellectually honest. Read the whole book. Read the commentary written about Hosea. Then comment. It's shameful for anyone to speak with faux authority while being completely ignorant on the subject.

feralcatlady's photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:39 PM
Bible 101 to read and study and have faith and the Holy Spirit is the only way to understand it...



THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE, ONLY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE READING.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:42 PM
Then either one of you should be more than capable of explaining this contradiction since I’m merely misinterpreting in some manner. Go ahead.

no photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:51 PM

Then either one of you should be more than capable of explaining this contradiction since I’m merely misinterpreting in some manner. Go ahead.


I gave you a link, start there, IF you are interested in knowing the truth.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/24/09 05:56 PM
Edited by Krimsa on Sat 01/24/09 05:57 PM
That’s as bad as people posting 15 pages of extended exegesis with no discernable paragraphs.

The point is that it states god will judge you for it. We know it’s not the right thing to do but then well, in this case, we will come up with some reason. It’s a contradiction by definition.

no photo
Sat 01/24/09 06:00 PM

That’s as bad as people posting 15 pages of extended exegesis with no discernable paragraphs.

The point is that it states god will judge you for it. We know it’s not the right thing to do but then well, in this case, we will come up with some reason. It’s a contradiction by definition.



So you aren't interested in learning the truth. That's no surprise.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 01/24/09 06:01 PM
Its still a contradiction.

AdventureBegins's photo
Mon 01/26/09 08:09 AM


That’s as bad as people posting 15 pages of extended exegesis with no discernable paragraphs.

The point is that it states god will judge you for it. We know it’s not the right thing to do but then well, in this case, we will come up with some reason. It’s a contradiction by definition.



So you aren't interested in learning the truth. That's no surprise.

Because a person agrees not with YOUR truth...

this in no way indicates they do not believe in THE truth...

Life has many levels of meanings, layers of truths that once learned lead one again into the onion...


SharpShooter10's photo
Mon 01/26/09 10:35 AM

IS IT possible that God used evolution to make men from beasts? Did God direct bacteria to develop into fish and then to continue developing through reptiles and mammals, so that finally a race of apes became humans? Some scientists and religious leaders claim to believe both the theory of evolution and the Bible. They say that the Bible book of Genesis is a parable. Perhaps you have wondered, ‘Is the theory that man evolved from animals compatible with the Bible?’

The apostle Paul told educated Greeks: “God . . . made out of one man every nation of men”

Understanding our origin is vital to understanding who we are, where we are going, and how we should live. Only with knowledge of man’s origin can we understand God’s permission of suffering and his purpose for man’s future. We cannot enjoy a fine standing with God if we are not sure that he is our Creator. So let us examine what the Bible says about man’s origin, his present condition, and his future. Then we will see if the theory of evolution is compatible with the Bible.

When There Was One Man

Evolutionists generally claim that a population of animals gradually developed into a population of humans, denying that there was once only one man. However, the Bible presents a very different picture. It says that we originate from one man, Adam. The Bible account presents Adam as a historical person. It gives us the names of his wife and some of his children. It tells us in detail what he did, what he said, when he lived, and when he died. Jesus did not consider that account as just a story for uneducated people. When addressing well-educated religious leaders, he said: “Did you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female?” (Matthew 19:3-5) Jesus then quoted the words about Adam and Eve recorded at Genesis 2:24.

A woman reading the Bible

Luke, a Bible writer and a careful historian, presented Adam as a person who was as real as Jesus. Luke traced Jesus’ genealogy back to the first man. (Luke 3:23-38) Also, when the apostle Paul spoke before an audience that included philosophers who were educated in the famous Greek schools, he told them: “The God that made the world and all the things in it . . . made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth.” (Acts 17:24-26) Clearly, the Bible teaches that we descended from “one man.” Is what the Bible says about man’s original condition compatible with evolution?

Man’s Slide From Perfection

According to the Bible, God made the first man perfect. It is impossible for God to make things any other way. The creation account says: “God proceeded to create the man in his image . . . After that God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” (Genesis 1:27, 31) What is a perfect man like?

Evolution presents modern man as an improving animal. The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man

A perfect man has free will and is able to imitate God’s qualities completely. The Bible says: “The true God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans.” (Ecclesiastes 7:29) Adam chose to rebel against God. By his rebellion, Adam lost perfection for himself and his offspring. Man’s fall from perfection explains why we often disappoint ourselves, even though we want to do what is good. The apostle Paul wrote: “What I wish, this I do not practice; but what I hate is what I do.”—Romans 7:15.

A perfect man would live forever in perfect health, according to the Bible. It is evident from what God said to Adam that if the first man had not disobeyed God, he would never have died. (Genesis 2:16, 17; 3:22, 23) God would not have declared the creation of man to be “very good” if the man had a tendency to get sick or to rebel. The fall from perfection explains why the human body, though marvelously designed, is susceptible to deformities and disease. Evolution is therefore incompatible with the Bible. Evolution presents modern man as an improving animal. The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man.

The idea that God directed evolution in order to produce man is also incompatible with what the Bible says about God’s personality. If God guided the process of evolution, it would mean that he guided mankind into its present diseased and distressed state. However, the Bible says of God: “The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he. They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own.” (Deuteronomy 32:4, 5) Therefore, mankind’s present suffering is not the result of God-directed evolution. It is the result of one man’s losing perfection for himself and his offspring by rebelling against God. Now that we have considered Adam, we can turn to Jesus. Is evolution compatible with what the Bible says about Jesus?

Can You Believe in Both Evolution and Christianity?

“Christ died for our sins.” As you probably know, that is one of the basic teachings of Christianity. (1 Corinthians 15:3; 1 Peter 3:18) To see why evolution is incompatible with that statement, we first need to understand why the Bible calls us sinners and what sin does to us.

We are all sinners in the sense that we cannot perfectly imitate God’s glorious qualities, such as his love and justice. Therefore, the Bible says: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) The Bible teaches that sin is the cause of death. “The sting producing death is sin,” says 1 Corinthians 15:56. Our inheritance of sin is also the underlying cause of sickness. Jesus indicated that there is a link between sickness and our sinful condition. He said to a paralytic, “Your sins are forgiven,” and the man was healed.—Matthew 9:2-7.

How does Jesus’ death help us? The Bible contrasts Adam with Jesus Christ and says: “Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:22) By laying down his life, Jesus paid the price for the sin that we inherited from Adam. Thus, all who exercise faith in Jesus and obey him will receive what Adam forfeited—the prospect of everlasting life.—John 3:16; Romans 6:23.

Do you see, then, that evolution is incompatible with Christianity? If we doubt that “in Adam all are dying,” how can we hope that “in the Christ all will be made alive”?

Why Evolution Attracts People

The Bible reveals how such teachings as evolution become popular. It says: “There will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3, 4) Although evolution is usually presented in scientific language, it is really a religious doctrine. It teaches a philosophy of life and an attitude toward God. Its beliefs are subtly attractive to mankind’s selfish, independent tendencies. Many who believe in evolution say that they also believe in God. However, they feel free to think of God as one who has not created things, does not intervene in man’s affairs, and will not judge people. It is a creed that tickles people’s ears.

Teachers of evolution are often motivated, not by the facts, but by “their own desires”—perhaps a desire to be accepted by a scientific community in which evolution is orthodox doctrine. Professor of biochemistry Michael Behe, who has spent most of his life studying the complex internal functions of living cells, explained that those who teach the evolution of cell structure have no basis for their claims. Could evolution occur at this tiny, molecular level? “Molecular evolution is not based on scientific authority,” he wrote. “There is no publication in the scientific literature—in prestigious journals, specialty journals, or books—that describes how molecular evolution of any real, complex, biochemical system either did occur or even might have occurred. . . . The assertion of Darwinian molecular evolution is merely bluster.”

1. Flowers; 2. A gazelle

“Molecular evolution is not based on scientific authority”

If evolutionists lack explanations, why do they preach their ideas so loudly? Behe explains: “Many people, including many important and well-respected scientists, just don’t want there to be anything beyond nature.”

The doctrine of evolution attracts many clergymen who want to appear wise. They are similar to those described in the apostle Paul’s letter to Christians in Rome. Paul wrote: “What may be known about God is manifest among them . . . His invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened. Although asserting they were wise, they became foolish.” (Romans 1:19-22) How can you avoid being deceived by false teachers?

Evidence-Based Faith in the Creator

The Bible stresses the importance of evidence when it defines faith. It says: “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Hebrews 11:1) True faith in God should be based on evidence that demonstrates the reality of the Creator. The Bible shows where you can find the evidence.

“I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.” (Psalm 139:14) Taking time to reflect on the amazing design of our own body and of other living things fills us with awe at the wisdom of our Maker. Every part of the thousands of systems that cooperate to keep us alive is ideally designed. Also, the physical universe displays evidence of mathematical precision and order.
"The heavens are declaring the glory of God; and of the
work of his hands the expanse is telling.”—Psalm 19:1.

The amazing design of living things fills us with awe at the wisdom of our Maker

The Bible itself is a rich source of evidence about the Creator. Taking the time to examine the consistency of its 66 books, the superiority of its moral standards, and the unfailing fulfillment of its prophecies will provide you with abundant evidence that its author is the Creator. Understanding the Bible’s teachings will also give you confidence that the Bible is, indeed, the Word of the Creator. For example, when you understand such Bible teachings as the cause of suffering, the Kingdom of God, the future of mankind, and the way to find happiness, you will see an evident demonstration of God’s wisdom. You may come to feel as Paul did when he wrote: “O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and past tracing out his ways are!”—Romans 11:33.

A bird

As you examine the evidence and your faith grows, you will become convinced that when you read the Bible, you are listening to the Creator himself. He says: “I myself have made the earth and have created even man upon it. I—my own hands have stretched out the heavens, and all the army of them I have commanded.” (Isaiah 45:12) Surely you will never regret making the effort to prove to yourself that Gpd is the Creator of all things.

Adam and Eve were NOT the first two people on earth. The ethnos, or mankind were created on the sixth day. The Man Adam after the seventh to till the garden and care for it and be the bloodline for Christ. Eve would be the mother of all living, meaning those in Christ. Two people did not make all the cultures and races.

Krimsa's photo
Mon 01/26/09 10:55 AM
Here we go again. laugh Its like arguing who was created first, Santa or the Easter Bunny. happy

TBRich's photo
Mon 01/26/09 11:15 AM
1. Santa was first, from a clearly historical perspective, even before Saint Nickolas. In fact our modern conception comes from the 1800s. Whereas, the Easter Bunny was an adaption of the use of the rabbit as a symbol for the fertility of Spring.

2. Another problem with evolution discussion: I used to ask my students- did man evolve from apes? and most of them would get that wrong. Each creature alive today is the end point of its own evolution. No where did Darwin say man evolved from apes. However, this concept is utilized as a proof for the need of a Meritocracy and/or Social Darwinism. These are arguments which contain the Logical Fallacy of Ranking.

Krimsa's photo
Mon 01/26/09 11:17 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Mon 01/26/09 11:19 AM
1. Santa was first, from a clearly historical perspective, even before Saint Nickolas. In fact our modern conception comes from the 1800s. Whereas, the Easter Bunny was an adaption of the use of the rabbit as a symbol for the fertility of Spring.


You understand who you are speaking with right now don’t you? happy It was a rhetorical statement meant to poke fun. Lighten up.

TBRich's photo
Mon 01/26/09 11:22 AM
Smacks self in head, D'Uh!! Well what about the second part?

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