The Word of God is never misleading.

The proof of a prophet is partly in keeping alive the Word as it has
been given.

I ask again what part of what you have quoted me is as it is written in
Genesis.

In the begining God created the Heavens and the Earth.

There was no need in the begining for the word. Mankind (the reason for
the word) was not created till the 6th day.

Therefore this quote is immediately suspect for it does not link with
scripture as it is but changes it to what will serve not Christ but the
Church.

AdventureBegins,

Do you ever get tired of your own words? You just talk and talk and
talk and you don't make any sense. The scriptures contradict every
single thing you type. Do a word study on Genesis 1:1. Focus on the
word "God".

I speak as I must for the Glory of God.

To Art girl heinous crimes in the name of God? How about the heinous
crimes of the ungodly? What am I talking about? Take all the "Christian
driven wars and total the casualties. You would come up with
approximately 25,000. Take Just one Country of communism,let's say
China. Why communism? because commnism holds an atheist view. OK Mao tsi
dung killed 70 million of his own people.70 million compared to 25,000.
I know us Christians mess things up and make mistakes, but all of us
do.Now Let's take Christian generousiy world wide. If all the Christian
organizations stopped giving, this world would be in utter deptivation
on a scale never seen. Thank you but i'll trust in God and his word that
is also in the epistles. Spider is right adventure,You are an apostate
and i'm tired of lstening to your drivel. Don't worry i'll not interject
my opinions in anything you have to say any longer. You are an
apostate!! In the book of Genesis chapter 1 verse 26, The living wrd od
the living God says "The God said let US make the man in OUR image,in
OUR likeness" Who was he talking about? It was Jesus, or do your think
it might have been some contractors from another solar system? I pray
before your term ends on earth that you will repent of your evil and you
will bow down to your creator.
GOODBYE!!!

Thank you sir for you blessing.

I am with my creator in all things. God is and where God is evil can
not exist.

Because my view of God does not agree with yours does not make me
anything but a man, not evil, not an 'apostate'.

An apostate is one who turns away from or denies the religion that the
first turned to.

I can not be apostate therefore because I am not a member of any Church.

Wikipedia on apostate and apostasy:
Apostasy is a term generally employed to describe the formal
renunciation of one's religion.

I have my faith. Christ is included within that faith but my faith is
in the Father without whom the son could not exist.

Spider you seem well versed in the New Testement. Please if you would
tell me of the generations of Jesus Christ as it is relayed in Matthew.

So that I may understand it by the ways of your faith.

rproman - atrocities done to humankind under any kind of banner are
unacceptable to me. The ones perpetrated under the name of God I find
the most twisted and offensive. And I am not just speaking of
Christians ... I am speaking of all dogma that is used to control and
mistreat and justify ...

My comment was a reaction to Spider's comment to AB "'You are messing
with something you shouldn't be messing with when you try to take your
own perverse views and justify them using scripture."

I was merely pointing out that scripture has been used that way for
centuries.

And when I speak of the things people do to one another, it is not just
the large scale atrocities that make headlines, it is the insideous ones
that happen behind closed doors.

A child beaten with a stick down the block from me - it is her angry
fathers 'responsibility' - spare the rod, spoil the child load of
garbage. The crime? He told her not to spill her milk...


It is the hypocracy of people that I find troubling and their use of
scripture to justify their behaviour.

Is that a blanket statement on all of Christianity? Of course not!
There are many who live wonderfully mindful, giving, loving lives. And
there are many who do not.

I was raised a Christian ... my views of God have not been diminished
... they have been expanded to encompass all. It is inclusionary not
exclusionary. I believe in one source...one cannot be divided ... there
is nothing it is not. And it is not found in dogma. This notion that
God is some super humanoid with an ego is ridiculous to me.

We are created in the likeness - yes! The energy, the consciousness,
the spark that is God - that piece lives in me.

'People' are generous around the world...not just Christians. And yes,
thank goodness for that ...

I am curious though ... It seems to me that it would take very few of
the Vatican's billions to feed all the hungry of the world. That is the
establishment.

Am I now blaming the Vatican? No, of course not ... we in North America
throw away enough food to feed the rest of the planet too...

Ok, from the second page of this post I started having this thought.
With each post I read, the thought got louder. I could not push it
away. By the end I know I had to find a way to put it into words.

In order for prophecy to be true, it can not be changed. This means
that when God passed along the prophecy, God knew what was going to
happen, exactly what would happen. Now this can not happen unless free
will is ONLY given when it comes to faith. That means that ALL OUR
COURSES, except in faith, are directed by God. FATE! This means that
God has already chosen who will deliver his message as well as who will
carry it out by word, and deed - regardless of faith.

This means only one think - Spider, Wonderman, you must reconsider your
stance. Here is why, who betrayed Jesus? Did he know? Was it not
prophecy? Was this betrayer, not a believer?

If Judas betrayed because it was fated by God, through prophecy, that
does not mean that his free will did not accept Jesus and Christ, that
he was not repentant. Even YOU can not say that Judas will not have a
place in heaven.

Logic, not the word must sometimes intervene, because the word is given
through man and not every man has good logic.

Another example:

If a person is delivered the Word of God and Jesus through a false
teacher. Let's say that someone who can sell anything, give false
testimony that actually achieves followers of God. So this new follower
know nothing of the Bible, other than what they were told, which may be
false.

Because this person knows nothing of these 'laws' or of 'scripture',
would you say that this person can not aspire to a heavenly kingdom in
the sight of God?

So I ask you, what good are all the "WORDS" if the faith is there and
true in the heart of the faithful.

To me it seems a cage, a prison, that by learning the words, by
defining scripture that you become subject to so much more from your own
self portrait, than a simpe person who has no more knowledge that the
words of someones testimony.

It is your prison, live there if you want, but there are those who
choose faith freely, because their fate they can not control. You
Spider, Wonderman, try to control too much.

Love you both S & W, all of you who feel compelled to subscribe so
strictly to what you read, I love your tenacity and your passion, but
you are bound by your beliefs, not freed by them. What would you do, if
you no longer had the Bible or any reference to it at your disposal and
a question abided within you? Would you not follow your heart, a heart
you say is inspired with the Holy Spirit. Do you NEED the words?

THE BIBLE IS GOD'S TRUTH, EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT AND REPENT OR ELSE YOU
DO NOT AND FIND OUT IN THE END.
I AM NOT JUDGE BUT JESUS WILL JUDGE AMEN

Jesus may judge you.

God will judge me.

Life is.

I am.

Red those were some very good posts.

My hat is off to you.

Well said.

thanks AB, I usually try to be as impartial as I can. But those thought
just kept yelling in my head. I even left this post but could not
concentrate.

It occured to me that 'maybe' the Holy Spirit works through the
non-believer as well, so I posted what I felt moved to.

Call it fate!
or call it logic but if some call it satan, I would expect that too.

Even that which is called satan moves not unless God allows it.

If God say BE. It is.

Took many times reading Job before I understood that lesson. Satan
could not have touch Job without God allowing it.

God used Job's strong faith to show all of us He has power over all
things.

God passes me by on a daily basis.
When a person need my help, my support, my understanding, my smile, my
time for just listening.
HOwever, sadly most of the time I don't recognize Him, and I just walk
away.

Forgive me Father for not being able to see you everytime you come to
me.

TLW

you people are way above me. I see God in much more simple things, as I
mentioned in the prior post.
All of you are more philosopher you go to deep.
that is why I don't post that much, I don't have that much philosophy to
keep on a discussion.
For me my Father is way more simple.
But congratulations I see you have spend hours over hours reading and
learning.
I just have somee questions after all that study and philosophy:
Are you really happy?
Is you life fullfill?
do u feel depressed when things don't go OK?
do u guys go out to the nature and let the glory of Mother Earth amaze
u?

Anyway I feel honoured to share this threads with such a gang of
ectraordinary minds. Hopefully, someday I will learn a bit more from
you.

TLW

BTW I'm not being sarcastic

TLW you as allways are a breath of freash air.

I did do the walk in nature earlier today. How much simpler life is
amoung the trees with all of creation around you.

Red you hit a very important point.

I am sure that Judas is resting well in the Heaven of the Father.
What he did was necessary to fulfill the prophesy. If he had not
betrayed Jesus to them there would have been no piercing and all the
other things that went with it as prophesy foretold would happen. That
would have nullified the claims of Jesus and made him false.

The place of Judas is assured for as Peter did his part in thrice dening
Christ so also did Judas do the will of God.

And Pilat, and the crowd, and the Romans etc... And they say the holy
spirit is not in all things. Yet each had to react the way they did to
fulfill prophesy.

But therin lies a question. Did God make it happen to fulfill prophesy
or did he know it would happen and therefore gave us knowledge of it so
that we might marvel at his Glory when it did happen?

AB said:
"""But therin lies a question. Did God make it happen to fulfill
prophesy or did he know it would happen and therefore gave us knowledge
of it so that we might marvel at his Glory when it did happen?"""

Now that is very good perspective. LW is a fabulous example of what you
and I are talking about. Faith, not because they interpret and find law
in scripture. But faith because it is in your heart. If it is in your
heart, but the law is not known, it should never matter. What matters
is that, if it's in your heart, it moves you to do right, and feel quilt
or sorry when you have discovered a wrong. So how much a part of
Christrian faith can doctrine realy be? Must it be to the letter of the
law?

Your point, AB, also considers the fact that, perhaps God knew that
there would be those who would be moved when prophecy becomes truth.
Why should those without knowledge or concern for scriptured law, not be
considered worthy in God's sight?

Spider? Wonderman? Again I ask you to look, not through scripture but
through logic and with your heart. Do not make a prison of your words,
they do not free you and they can not encumber those who have no
knowledge of them.