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| Topic: Equally Sinful | |
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James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. |
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absolutism vs. relativism..it all depends on purpose/strategy
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yes all sins are equal......... all but one sin. There is only one unforgivable sin. And that is denying the Lord. Denying Jesus was the son of God is the only sin unforgivable.
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. It depends on where you are going with this. Are you speaking in terms of who goes to heaven or who goes to prison? |
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'Word' up! ...
 In Olde English 'Sin' was an archery term that meant to miss the target, but hit the hay ... ... 'Evil' was the word used to denote missing the target and hay entirely! How can something so far removed from the original text be understood, much less be put into context for healthy debate? Food for thought, discuss amongst yourselves ... Rose tinted glasses? |
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I don't use the word sin..I certainly don't look at myself or anyone else as a "sinner".
If there is one thing that is so bad, so wrong, so awful and terrible that needs to be corrected it would be self loathing...that one thing would be most damaging and destructive. And it begins with the concept of "sin", teaching children from the time they are able to talk that they are a sinner, that they are born from the original sin and a natural enemy to God.....what a horrible thing to teach a child. |
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'Word' up! ... In Olde English 'Sin' was an archery term that meant to miss the target, but hit the hay ... ... 'Evil' was the word used to denote missing the target and hay entirely! How can something so far removed from the original text be understood, much less be put into context for healthy debate? Food for thought, discuss amongst yourselves ... Rose tinted glasses? Yes, and in english a birdie is a small bird but it is also a golf term. So , depending upon context, the word can be used in conversations about EITHER birds or golf. |
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I don't use the word sin..I certainly don't look at myself or anyone else as a "sinner". If there is one thing that is so bad, so wrong, so awful and terrible that needs to be corrected it would be self loathing...that one thing would be most damaging and destructive. And it begins with the concept of "sin", teaching children from the time they are able to talk that they are a sinner, that they are born from the original sin and a natural enemy to God.....what a horrible thing to teach a child. Again, everything in context. I was taught that there is RIGHT and WRONG(not an awful thing to learn,,btw) that can be done against man. I was taught that there is righteous behavior and sin which can be done against God. I was taught that I will no doubt make mistakes and do wrong because I am human and likewise I will no doubt sin. I was also taught that these mistakes and sins were things to learn from , opportunities to live a better and healthier life. I was taught that others mistakes and sins were an opportunity for me to learn and to forgive. None of these lessons seem so horrible to me. |
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Yes, AND the ENGLISH Biblical translations regarding the words sin and evil were derived from the archery connotation was my direct point ...
Fascinating! A concept that I find quite liberating from a historical, many times translated text perspective! ...And, yes ... English has been quite 'played' w/, that's true, though not my point here ... |
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How can something so far removed from the original text be understood, much less be put into context for healthy debate?
my point was that ANY word, regardless of how it may have ONCE or origianally been used can have multiple definitions. Any of which, when read in context, should be able to be debated. |
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. mm - just thinking about this a lot of questions come up... Does the Bible offer any ‘conditions’ under which forgiveness should be given? When we forgive are we to restore trust as well – and if not, have we truly forgiven? In our forgiveness should we abandon the use of mandatory tracking of released serial rapists and pedophiles? If in our tracking we are showing our distrust, are we not judging and thereby putting limitations on that person’s freedom – how is that forgivenss? How many times do we forgive repeat offenders of violent crimes against others? How many times should a person be released only to offend and be caught again? Who should be the one to declare forgiveness when the victim did not survive? If you visit a culture vastly different from any you have known and the people act in ways you feel are immoral, even abominable, possibly even dangerous should their ideologies find their way into your own society - should that culture be totally destroyed – like Sodom and Gomorrah were? Should we forgive all sinners before or after punishment? If after punishment, then how harsh a punishment should be given before we forgive? |
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if only logic was applicable. |
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. mm - just thinking about this a lot of questions come up... Does the Bible offer any ‘conditions’ under which forgiveness should be given? When we forgive are we to restore trust as well – and if not, have we truly forgiven? In our forgiveness should we abandon the use of mandatory tracking of released serial rapists and pedophiles? If in our tracking we are showing our distrust, are we not judging and thereby putting limitations on that person’s freedom – how is that forgivenss? How many times do we forgive repeat offenders of violent crimes against others? How many times should a person be released only to offend and be caught again? Who should be the one to declare forgiveness when the victim did not survive? If you visit a culture vastly different from any you have known and the people act in ways you feel are immoral, even abominable, possibly even dangerous should their ideologies find their way into your own society - should that culture be totally destroyed – like Sodom and Gomorrah were? Should we forgive all sinners before or after punishment? If after punishment, then how harsh a punishment should be given before we forgive? Forgiveness does not absolve anyone of consequence or punishment. A forgiving heart can exist without two parties but forgiveness, in the biblical sense, requires repentance of the offending party which would include accepting punishment and consequence. We can forgive those who offend us, but that does not mean that we should absolve them from repenting(or accepting their consequences). |
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. mm - just thinking about this a lot of questions come up... Does the Bible offer any ‘conditions’ under which forgiveness should be given? When we forgive are we to restore trust as well – and if not, have we truly forgiven? In our forgiveness should we abandon the use of mandatory tracking of released serial rapists and pedophiles? If in our tracking we are showing our distrust, are we not judging and thereby putting limitations on that person’s freedom – how is that forgivenss? How many times do we forgive repeat offenders of violent crimes against others? How many times should a person be released only to offend and be caught again? Who should be the one to declare forgiveness when the victim did not survive? If you visit a culture vastly different from any you have known and the people act in ways you feel are immoral, even abominable, possibly even dangerous should their ideologies find their way into your own society - should that culture be totally destroyed – like Sodom and Gomorrah were? Should we forgive all sinners before or after punishment? If after punishment, then how harsh a punishment should be given before we forgive? Forgiveness does not absolve anyone of consequence or punishment. A forgiving heart can exist without two parties but forgiveness, in the biblical sense, requires repentance of the offending party which would include accepting punishment and consequence. We can forgive those who offend us, but that does not mean that we should absolve them from repenting(or accepting their consequences). I see a certain discontinuity in your thought. For example - do we only forgive if punishment brings about the person's repentence? If no repentence is offered, do we continue to punish? That's actually reminiscent of the witch trials - like tying a person with bound hands and feet to a boulder and throwing that person in water to see if get free. Of course if the person does survive it is obviously proof of their guilt. Easy to forgive a dead person. At any rate - it seems to me that in forgiving you do not punish but rather you teach. So if you want to forgive a serial rapist, you would take that rapist into your home and love the person and teach the person a better way. NO PUNISHMENT - forgiveness is about love, temporance, and patience and of couse if forgiveness is AN ACT then it must be one which can be seen - true? Otherwise forgivenss is a thought only and it benefits NO ONE. |
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. mm - just thinking about this a lot of questions come up... Does the Bible offer any ‘conditions’ under which forgiveness should be given? When we forgive are we to restore trust as well – and if not, have we truly forgiven? In our forgiveness should we abandon the use of mandatory tracking of released serial rapists and pedophiles? If in our tracking we are showing our distrust, are we not judging and thereby putting limitations on that person’s freedom – how is that forgivenss? How many times do we forgive repeat offenders of violent crimes against others? How many times should a person be released only to offend and be caught again? Who should be the one to declare forgiveness when the victim did not survive? If you visit a culture vastly different from any you have known and the people act in ways you feel are immoral, even abominable, possibly even dangerous should their ideologies find their way into your own society - should that culture be totally destroyed – like Sodom and Gomorrah were? Should we forgive all sinners before or after punishment? If after punishment, then how harsh a punishment should be given before we forgive? Forgiveness does not absolve anyone of consequence or punishment. A forgiving heart can exist without two parties but forgiveness, in the biblical sense, requires repentance of the offending party which would include accepting punishment and consequence. We can forgive those who offend us, but that does not mean that we should absolve them from repenting(or accepting their consequences). I see a certain discontinuity in your thought. For example - do we only forgive if punishment brings about the person's repentence? If no repentence is offered, do we continue to punish? That's actually reminiscent of the witch trials - like tying a person with bound hands and feet to a boulder and throwing that person in water to see if get free. Of course if the person does survive it is obviously proof of their guilt. Easy to forgive a dead person. At any rate - it seems to me that in forgiving you do not punish but rather you teach. So if you want to forgive a serial rapist, you would take that rapist into your home and love the person and teach the person a better way. NO PUNISHMENT - forgiveness is about love, temporance, and patience and of couse if forgiveness is AN ACT then it must be one which can be seen - true? Otherwise forgivenss is a thought only and it benefits NO ONE. We have a difference of opinion about how to teach then. I was taught 1. We have choices 2. Our choices have real consequences Bad choices usually have unpleasant consequences and good choices have better consequences, but each consequence(good or bad) is a lesson learned. |
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Stop thinking so much!
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James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. NIV this makes all sinners equal,,,murderers with adulterers and liars,, none worse than the other I believe this wholeheartedly but I know most would think me crazy for such a philosophy. We base our values on WORDLY priorities. We place thieves and armed robbers, in a category more despicable than an embezzler because we value individual WEALTH and the flesh so highly. I think both the soul and the body should be equally significant and sins against either should be equally forgiven or detested. mm - just thinking about this a lot of questions come up... Does the Bible offer any ‘conditions’ under which forgiveness should be given? When we forgive are we to restore trust as well – and if not, have we truly forgiven? In our forgiveness should we abandon the use of mandatory tracking of released serial rapists and pedophiles? If in our tracking we are showing our distrust, are we not judging and thereby putting limitations on that person’s freedom – how is that forgivenss? How many times do we forgive repeat offenders of violent crimes against others? How many times should a person be released only to offend and be caught again? Who should be the one to declare forgiveness when the victim did not survive? If you visit a culture vastly different from any you have known and the people act in ways you feel are immoral, even abominable, possibly even dangerous should their ideologies find their way into your own society - should that culture be totally destroyed – like Sodom and Gomorrah were? Should we forgive all sinners before or after punishment? If after punishment, then how harsh a punishment should be given before we forgive? Forgiveness does not absolve anyone of consequence or punishment. A forgiving heart can exist without two parties but forgiveness, in the biblical sense, requires repentance of the offending party which would include accepting punishment and consequence. We can forgive those who offend us, but that does not mean that we should absolve them from repenting(or accepting their consequences). I see a certain discontinuity in your thought. For example - do we only forgive if punishment brings about the person's repentence? If no repentence is offered, do we continue to punish? That's actually reminiscent of the witch trials - like tying a person with bound hands and feet to a boulder and throwing that person in water to see if get free. Of course if the person does survive it is obviously proof of their guilt. Easy to forgive a dead person. At any rate - it seems to me that in forgiving you do not punish but rather you teach. So if you want to forgive a serial rapist, you would take that rapist into your home and love the person and teach the person a better way. NO PUNISHMENT - forgiveness is about love, temporance, and patience and of couse if forgiveness is AN ACT then it must be one which can be seen - true? Otherwise forgivenss is a thought only and it benefits NO ONE. We have a difference of opinion about how to teach then. I was taught 1. We have choices 2. Our choices have real consequences Bad choices usually have unpleasant consequences and good choices have better consequences, but each consequence(good or bad) is a lesson learned. Forgiveness does not absolve anyone of consequence or punishment. A forgiving heart can exist without two parties but forgiveness, in the biblical sense, requires repentance of the offending party which would include accepting punishment and consequence. We can forgive those who offend us, but that does not mean that we should absolve them from repenting(or accepting their consequences). Let me then ask you - what exactly does forgivenss do, what does it affect?. What is it's purpose what function does it preform? |
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From a christian standpoint,,
If we don’t forgive, our rage and anger will be like poison to us and it will eat us up. God does not want that to happen, so we are commanded to forgive. (Philippians 2:13) • Forgiveness frees us from the emotional bondage of hate and the physical consequences of our anger. Those things shape who we are, how we react to others and how we respond to life. If we don’t forgive, we allow the wrongful actions of another to ruin our own life. • Forgiveness frees us from guilt and shame. We no longer need to feel anxious, worry about the situation or feel as though the whole world blames us for what happened. Though we want to take precautions never to do it again, we are free to leave the past behind us and start new again. • Forgiveness does not free us from living with the consequences of sin, whether it’s our sin or someone else’s. But whether or not we forgive determines if we live with those consequences in bitterness or in the freedom of Christ. Ephesians 4:31-32 |
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