A video from November of '08. Its not often you see a conversation like this. Quite interesting.

http://www.scottklarr.com/topic/469/the-four-horsemen-discussion-with-dawkins-dennett-harris-hitchens/

I went out of my way in my book to address reasonable religious people. And I test-flew the draft with groups of students who were deeply religious. And indeed, the first draft incurred some real anguish. And so I made adjustments and made adjustments. And it didn't do any good in the end because I still got hammered for being for being rude and aggressive. And I came to realise that it's a no-win situation. It's a mug's game. The religions have contrived to make it impossible to disagree with them critically without being rude.

You want us to single out one thing in particular? hehehe. It was all great for me. I've been a big admirer of both Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens for years but didn't know who the other two were until watching this video (yeah, I'm not as particularly informed as I'd like to be), but I was amazed and thoroughly enjoyed every minute.

don't sweat it. I'd never even heard of any of these "famous" atheists until a few years ago.

Sam Harris' book "Letter to a Christian Nation' is particularly good read.

-Kerry O.

The biggest problem I have with all these "famous" atheists is that they don't say much that I hadn't already thought of or spoken about already.
But I'll check out that book, as soon as I get around to a bookstore.

For the most part, it seems like discourse that is recognized as 'atheistic' rarely goes down especially interesting or innovative pathways. I mean, atheism is a non-belief, so mostly we're likely to talk about the same old lack of evidence for deity, and the silly games people play to convince themselves and others that deities exist.

If we were to constructively discuss a rational, evidenced based worldview, we won't sound like we're 'talking atheism', we'll sound like we're 'talking science'.

I've actually had this argument thrown at me once:

"Science is bad. If God wanted us to be all sciency, he'd have put it in the Bible."

You can't fight that on a personal level. Trust me, I've tried.

I think some have got the actuality of reality so screwed up in their on heads, they think of us as cultists whenever we discuss anything that seems like we're "talking science".

And you are right. How many ways can one say religion, on the whole, is b.s.? What we need are irrefutable arguments....hmm...nevermind. We have those....sigh...

I guess I've taken a Dr. Strangelovian attitude towards the whole enchilada. When you think of it that way, it all becomes a dark comedy for those that get it.

Having accomplished _that_, you can enjoy the absurdity without getting caught up in it. Sort of like the famous line from that selfsame movie (Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb) uttered by one of the characters Peter Sellers played in it:

"Gentlemen!! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!!".

-Kerry O.

Madness! I tell ya, it's madness!! I've often thought madness would be a good vacation....
Seriously though, I just can't stand stupidity and bloody ignorance of really basic facts. Not to mention the complete bloody illogical reasoning of some people. It just drives me crazy. CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY! EEEERRRRKK! wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

BTW, I know exactly what you mean. I've often thought I should take a more "zen" LIKE approach to things. But rampant stupidity and ignorance is to me like fingernails on a blackboard is to some people. Sometimes I just want to grab and shake their heads and scream "STOP BEING SO DAMN STUPID! READ MORE BOOKS! OR PROMISE NOT TO BREED! PICK ONE! NOW!"

i gotta get my meds adjusted....crap, I just remembered, I'm not on any meds...ok, I gotta go get some meds....

I guess my little joke killed the discussion, huh?

Sorry 'bout that.

Oh, no no no. Everybody's comments here made me laugh, or smile, or both; I just haven't been moved to respond. I guess we just aren't very chatty here in the atheist forum, threads die easily. You didn't kill it.