Flawed reasoning based upon ideology...

CowboyGH wrote
'God created the world and he saw it was good. People and how they live their lives is what's made it not good.... PEOPLE, not God. For instance, when the world was newly born, people wouldn't have had lung and other breathing diseases. People making cars, factories, and things of that nature has caused those particular diseases. So again what God created was perfect and worked just fine till people used their free will to destroy it.'

Bet anyone that lived downwind of a volcano had lung disease and most likely many other 'breathing' diseases.

Wishing upon a false premise will not make the physical reality go away. Diseases existed from the dawn of time. It has only been recently BECAUSE of the existance of 'people' that we can measure and cure such things...

Which came first the people or the God?

If God did stand beside you (i believe he does).

Would YOU like what he saw?

Even with your volcano example, it is still brought upon us by our actions. God didn't put people down wind from a volcano, people willingly moved there. So why blame God for peoples choices?

Christianity, a religion that does nothing but point the fickled finger of blame constantly.

Why blame mankind for everything?

You even try to blame mankind for disease.

Unbelievable.

I think this is why so many people find the religion to be so utterly disgusting. It refuses to confess that truth of the universe and that is that mankind cannot possibly be responsible for all the horrible crap that goes on.

Take mankind out of the universe and you've still got precisely the same situation left behind in nature with the animals as you had before you removed mankind.

The falsity of attemtping to blame mankind for everything just doesn't fly. Talk about your fairytale religions.

I'm not pointing figures at anyone. It is christians' fault just as anyone else. Christians in no way are perfect. If we succeeded in fallowing the laws set out before us exactly and perfect, then yes we would then be perfect. But we don't, there is only one person that can claim to ever had not sinned and was perfect and that is Jesus Christ. We ALL fail.

Christian are perfect through accepting Jesus christ as lord and savior. But we still fail and stumble from time to time, and are forgiven thus making us perfect. But our "actions" aren't always perfect. Everyone falls short in the glory of God.

If God did stand beside you (i believe he does).

Would YOU like what he saw?

The problem is that there is no commandment "Thou shalt be perfect", and never was any such commandment given by God anywhere in the OT.

The whole idea that anyone who isn't perfect has fallen short of the glory of God is an absurd Christianity ideal they made up to try to Justify their need to demand that everyone is a sinner.

Again, just another reason the religion is so utterly disgusting.

It's just the truth man. Think about, you don't have to answere these questions....

1. Have you lied? even just a small what we call white lie.
2. Have you ever picked something up that wasn't yours?
3. Have you ever denied the lord?
4. Have you ever done something wrong to someone else, weather it's disrespectful or any other?

And these questions aren't exactly towards you, just questions in general to reveal why it says everyone is a sinner and falls short of the glory of God. And is why God has given us a way to be forgiven for such trespasses.

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The problem is that there is no commandment "Thou shalt be perfect", and never was any such commandment given by God anywhere in the OT.
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No not directly it doesn't say that. But if you take the bible's teaching as a whole it does. Being perfect is only meaning being sinless. And Jesus will forgive you of those sins/trespasses if you accept him into your heart and seek forgiveness. Will be written off like you never did those things, thus making you perfect.

Your assuming that everything you've listed is automatically a sin. But many people hold that a sin is not an act, but rather it's an intent. You're also assuming that the authors of the Bible should decide what's a "sin".

For example take your #3. Deny the lord? Who's lord? I have never met anyone who claimed to be lord, therefore it's impossible for me to deny that person's claim.

I personally don't believe that Jesus ever even remotely suggested that anyone should view him as 'lord'. Those claims were made by other people, not by Jesus himself. Although they tried quite hard to shove those words in his dead mouth. That I won't deny.

Your assuming that everything you've listed is automatically a sin. But many people hold that a sin is not an act, but rather it's an intent. You're also assuming that the authors of the Bible should decide what's a "sin".

For example take your #3. Deny the lord? Who's lord? I have never met anyone who claimed to be lord, therefore it's impossible for me to deny that person's claim.

I personally don't believe that Jesus ever even remotely suggested that anyone should view him as 'lord'. Those claims were made by other people, not by Jesus himself. Although they tried quite hard to shove those words in his dead mouth. That I won't deny.

He didn't even remotely suggest that anyone view him as lord eh?....

Exodus 20:2
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage

Isaiah 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee

Those versus are from the Old Testament. They can't possibly be something that Jesus said.

I'm talking about the actual man (assuming he even actually existed). Even the Gospels don't have him claiming to be 'lord' or asking anyone to call him 'lord'.

Jesus himself never claimed to be any 'lord'. All he ever did was preach a pantheistic view of life. We and the Father are one, and ye are also gods. That's pantheism. Tat T'vam Asi.

ALL these verses are refering to Jesus as Lord. And are all from the new testament.


Matthew 1:22 - Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Mark 5:19 - Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee

Luke 1:6 - And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless

Matthew 22:37 - Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind

None of those verses refer to Jesus as Lord. Not a single one of them.

Those versus are from the Old Testament. They can't possibly be something that Jesus said.

I'm talking about the actual man (assuming he even actually existed). Even the Gospels don't have him claiming to be 'lord' or asking anyone to call him 'lord'.

Jesus himself never claimed to be any 'lord'. All he ever did was preach a pantheistic view of life. We and the Father are one, and ye are also gods. That's pantheism. Tat T'vam Asi.

Cowboy wrote:

They were all refering to Jesus, and here's another one

Luke 2:11
"for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

No. None of them are Jesus claiming to be Lord or requesting that anyone call him Lord.

Every verse you've offered is nothing more than the authors of the Bible attempting to claim that Jesus is Lord. Not Jesus himself claiming to be Lord.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You're worshiping the opinions of people like YOURSELF. People who have become "Jesus Freaks" and refuse to even acknowledge what Jesus himself was supposed to have actually taught in favor of making him into an object of IDOL worship.

I think Deepak Chopra said it best, "If I point to the moon and tell you that the moon is God, I hope you wouldn't misunderstand and worship my finger instead."

Dr. Chopra also understands what Jesus actually taught and he clearly sees that Jesus was simply pointing the way to God, not unlike Buddha and many others. Unfortunately the Christians (referring to the actual authors of the New Testament), misunderstood the teachings of Jesus and instead of recognizing what he was actually teaching they turned him into the object of their worship.

You've entirely missed the very point of the teachings of Jesus. But clearly it's not your fault. That's the whole delusion of all Christianity. The whole idea of Christianity is to follow the misguided notions of the authors of the New Testament and worship Jesus as an IDOL rather than recognizing the actual essence of what he was teaching.

Jesus can't 'pay' for your sins. You need to take responsibility for your own life. If you're feeling so guilty about youself that you feel you need a savior to save you, then you need to start doing the things that Jesus taught instead of just idly worshiping him as an idol.