However, by definition, if an atheist(weak or strong) does not deny the existence of any kind of God, then he must be an agnostic. There is no such thing as an atheist that believes in ANY God, for that would just be a paradox, for by clear definition, an atheist believes that there is no God(period). Agnostics don't confine to one specific religion... They are more open-minded regarding the subject, and they realize that God is not something that can be proven through science as it can only be proven from within.

Which is what the word "overlap" means.




A person can be said to be 'atheist' with respect to some particular god, or some particular concept of god.




They are more open minded, and they dogmatically assert a non-verifiable claim? Fun.

Well damn. :) :) :) I like you!

I'd go the other way - I'd say that all agnostics are atheists. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in a god. So, if you can't say "I believe in a god," which I gather agnostics can't say, then you're an atheist.

Well done. There are refreshments for everyone, and the restrooms are just out that door and first on the left.

No one ever uses the term anti-theism. When they mean anti-theism they simply used the term atheism.

That's how many, if not most, atheists use the term. In fact, most atheists will argue that the very idea of a God make no sense at all. They deny that there is any type of spiritual essence to life and that it's silly to think that our sense of self or consciousness can be perpetuated beyond physical life.

So, for all practical purposes most people who call themselves "atheists" are actually using the term to mean "anti-theists". They actually passionately believe that there can be no spiritual essence to reality.

That's just the facts. How many people have you ever heard call themselves anti-theists, or say that they believe in "anti-theism"?

The term just isn't used. They use atheism instead.

So if you want to claim that you just can't know, then agnostic is a far better term to use.

It's misleading to call yourself an atheist if you are truly agnostic. Because of the FACT that most people use the term atheist to mean anti-theism in spite of its etymological roots.

...in your experience. I know people who use the term anti-theist.




I agree that some of the more prominent atheist organizations use the term this way.



Really? Most? Many of the atheist I know (possibly a younger crowd?) are not opposed to the idea of a god, they just aren't very interested in it.




This is only true of some atheists. There are many, many people who consider themselves both buddhist and atheist, who also believe in a spiritual essence to life.



Have you done a poll?

fckin right! an agnostic is just an atheist hedging his bets!

It seems to me that the term "agnostic" is used in the same cowardly way as the term "bisexual." It shows a lack of commitment to the truth. I personally am brave enough to say that there is no god, and that I am homosexual. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Well, you just did there...

I don't think you get to decide what people "mean" when they say things. To say "anti-theist" implies that you're against a god. I can't be against something that I don't think exists. So, I'm an atheist. You can pretend that I actually mean something else, if you like, or you can redefine the word to mean something other than what it means. But I don't see why anyone else should have to go along with that.

Also, I never said anything about "anti-theism" one way or the other. Where did this come from?

You're making it a lot more complicated than it has to be. If you don't believe in a god, you're an atheist. The end.


You don't think you can be sexually attracted to men and women at the same time? Nice first post, by the way. Straight in there. You don't **** around, do you?

Oh...I dunno. I don't think it's particularly cowardly to use the term agnostic. Some people are genuinely on the fence, as it were.

And I'm pretty sure there are people who are, in fact, attracted to both sexes. From my experience, it's pretty common among women.

Elton John once said he doubled his audience when he said he liked men too. Too, as in also.

If they're on the fence, then they don't believe in god. If they haven't come to a final decision about believing in god, then they don't believe in god. Or, to put it another way, if I haven't come to a final decision about buying a television, then I haven't bought a television. No matter how on the fence I sincerely am, there is still no new television in my house.

Agreed. I would say that the majority of women are bi. Not in a college-girl-drunk type way, but in the way that they actually find other women sexually attractive. Either that or I just got really lucky with my girlfriends.

I believe your analogy to be incorrect. I've heard many people express the thought that while they don't believe in God, they also don't NOT believe in God. Seems pretty on the fence to me.

That's not on the fence - that's ridiculous. You either believe in god or you don't. If you're not sure, or you're thinking about it, then you don't believe in god. These language games only seem to make sense because they're about god. When you make them about something else (a television, for instance), the illogicality is immediately uncovered.

I always thought "on the fence" was meant to imply that a person is unable to make a definite decision in a situation that requires a definite decision.

Saying this about bisexuals strikes me as absurd - they like both men and women. Big deal. They haven't 'failed to decide' what they like, they have decided, and they like both. Its a very narrow worldview that requires people to only like one or the other.

The same thing applies for many weak atheists - for example, those who believe that definite, certain knowledge of the existence or non-existence of god is not possible. They can be very definite and strong in their position - they are not at all on the fence. (These people are also called 'agnostics'.)

Now, if you think that you can decide, but haven't yet decided, then maybe you are 'on the fence' about god....and also a weak atheist (or, for the older crowd here, agnostic).

Exactly. A lack of belief in a god is not the same as a definite disbelief in a god. Both are atheist, though only the first is also called agnostic.

Actually there is a god, and I can prove it. Try psilocybin mushrooms, and you will KNOW there is a God. You will turn from an atheist to a believe in minutes... LOL

Being agnostic doesn't necessarily mean that a person doesn't believe in God.. It just means he can't prove it with modern science.. yet I can prove it in other ways... You can prove it to yourself by ingesting the holy sacrament of the psychedelic psilocybin mushroom.

Here is a scientific study on them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-M5Iu5FpY

can you say owned?

Yeah, I think you are using the term agnostic differently than many here are. I'm not so sure about referencing 'modern science' specifically, its more that agnostics consider the existence of God to be not knowable. There are theist agnostics, who have 'faith' in god while asserting that god can't be proven.

I do actually, although i most probably dont use it correctly. I see it as meaning 'against the idea of religion', I find this easier than admitting to be agnostic or athiest, as i have not quite yet decided to which one i am.