Previous 1
Topic: DIVINITY OF CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE
MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 09:51 PM
I have been a Pastor all my life and was taught (and taught others also) that marriage is "divine" so we are obligated to pray and "be led by God" to find him or her.
Now, I renounce such teaching after personal experiences led me to conduct indepth research which I will share at some point.

Question is: Does God really find spouses for Christians? Does the Holy Spirit really "lead" believers to find their life partners?

My response: No, God made us in his image as free willed beings and said, "whosoever finds a spouse, finds a good thing." The responsibility of "finding" is on the individual, not on God.

For proponents of "God finds spouses for his children" I will ask to tell whether Benny Hinn, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Pastor Kennedy, etc can boldly say God found their estranged spouses? Secondly, why is the rate of divorce in the world highest among us Christians? God making so many mistakes?

Johnyjuan's photo
Sun 11/07/10 09:57 PM
I agree God doesn't find us a wife but he does recommend us what type of woman we should marry. He shows us what fruits this woman should have in proverbs. It's up to us to make our mind and choose which one we want but God tells us what woman we should look for but at the end we have the power to choose

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:03 PM

I agree God doesn't find us a wife but he does recommend us what type of woman we should marry. He shows us what fruits this woman should have in proverbs. It's up to us to make our mind and choose which one we want but God tells us what woman we should look for but at the end we have the power to choose


No contest about the proverbial Proverbs 31 "Virtuous Woman" which no woman - living or dead - ever attained or could attain. Eve, God's prototype woman never measured up right from inception.

If God prescribes the standard of woman to choose, but doesn't directly make the choice, could it be said that we have "controlled free will" as opposed to absolute free will in this matter?

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:06 PM
God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.

Johnyjuan's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:06 PM
I see it more as father's advise now it's not that he's not giving you complete free will. You can go ahead and grab any type of woman you want but he does try to make your life easier by telling you which one to get. Just like if you have sons or daugther you advise them and tell them what type of spouse they should get at the end of the day your son or daugther can get married with who ever they want but proverbs says to always listen to wise council....So getting advise from God isn't really a bad thing right?

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:09 PM


I agree God doesn't find us a wife but he does recommend us what type of woman we should marry. He shows us what fruits this woman should have in proverbs. It's up to us to make our mind and choose which one we want but God tells us what woman we should look for but at the end we have the power to choose


No contest about the proverbial Proverbs 31 "Virtuous Woman" which no woman - living or dead - ever attained or could attain. Eve, God's prototype woman never measured up right from inception.

If God prescribes the standard of woman to choose, but doesn't directly make the choice, could it be said that we have "controlled free will" as opposed to absolute free will in this matter?


No we have absolute free will. Just we have to face the consequences for our decisions. And with every action there is a reaction. Just because there are rules set out before something does not take our free will away. Free will boils down to being able to be obedient or not. And again we'll have to face the consequences of our actions if disobedient choices are made.

Johnyjuan's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:10 PM



I agree God doesn't find us a wife but he does recommend us what type of woman we should marry. He shows us what fruits this woman should have in proverbs. It's up to us to make our mind and choose which one we want but God tells us what woman we should look for but at the end we have the power to choose


No contest about the proverbial Proverbs 31 "Virtuous Woman" which no woman - living or dead - ever attained or could attain. Eve, God's prototype woman never measured up right from inception.

If God prescribes the standard of woman to choose, but doesn't directly make the choice, could it be said that we have "controlled free will" as opposed to absolute free will in this matter?


No we have absolute free will. Just we have to face the consequences for our decisions. And with every action there is a reaction. Just because there are rules set out before something does not take our free will away. Free will boils down to being able to be obedient or not. And again we'll have to face the consequences of our actions if disobedient choices are made.
amen bro speak

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:21 PM

God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:26 PM


God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:26 PM



I agree God doesn't find us a wife but he does recommend us what type of woman we should marry. He shows us what fruits this woman should have in proverbs. It's up to us to make our mind and choose which one we want but God tells us what woman we should look for but at the end we have the power to choose


No contest about the proverbial Proverbs 31 "Virtuous Woman" which no woman - living or dead - ever attained or could attain. Eve, God's prototype woman never measured up right from inception.

If God prescribes the standard of woman to choose, but doesn't directly make the choice, could it be said that we have "controlled free will" as opposed to absolute free will in this matter?


No we have absolute free will. Just we have to face the consequences for our decisions. And with every action there is a reaction. Just because there are rules set out before something does not take our free will away. Free will boils down to being able to be obedient or not. And again we'll have to face the consequences of our actions if disobedient choices are made.


Good take. We must take direct responsibility for our choices instead of responding like Adam : the wife YOU gave me. I think your reasoning is based on a presumption that the entire human race have biblical rules in every culture. Unfortunately this is obviously not the case. So let's broaden the reasoning to encompass the "unbelievers" ....if you don't mind.

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:29 PM



God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.


You can look at it this way. In this world marriages are only considered marriages if it's through the court system, in America. So if two people were to go through the marriage ceremony and all but not present it before the government, they would not recognize it as a marriage and or sanctify it as a marriage if you will.

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:30 PM



God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.

...so what happens when the marriage, supposedly "sanctified by the father" bitterly dissolves? How do we then define the ascribed sanctification? Presumably, whatever the Lord does shall be permanent. When impermanence results, whose act/choice is impugned?

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:32 PM




God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.


You can look at it this way. In this world marriages are only considered marriages if it's through the court system, in America. So if two people were to go through the marriage ceremony and all but not present it before the government, they would not recognize it as a marriage and or sanctify it as a marriage if you will.


Uhmmm.....not really, most states recognize traditional marriages in which lovers just live together and produce kids...

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:36 PM




God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.

...so what happens when the marriage, supposedly "sanctified by the father" bitterly dissolves? How do we then define the ascribed sanctification? Presumably, whatever the Lord does shall be permanent. When impermanence results, whose act/choice is impugned?


There technically isn't anything as a "divorce". The bible specifically says let no man put asunder what the father has joined. But, if one of the spouses cheats on the other, the marriage becomes obsolete.

The only way to be completely absolved from the marriage is for one of the spouses to have passed away on earth.

Marriages will ONLY work if both spouses push it to work. It working is through the actions the two takes towards each other through their life together. The father doesn't take our free will away therefore does not stop such from happening even though he's sanctified the marriage.

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:38 PM





God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.


You can look at it this way. In this world marriages are only considered marriages if it's through the court system, in America. So if two people were to go through the marriage ceremony and all but not present it before the government, they would not recognize it as a marriage and or sanctify it as a marriage if you will.


Uhmmm.....not really, most states recognize traditional marriages in which lovers just live together and produce kids...


Yes but for the state to recognize it there has to be a marriage licence between the two. Which is where the court comes in.

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:45 PM






God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.


You can look at it this way. In this world marriages are only considered marriages if it's through the court system, in America. So if two people were to go through the marriage ceremony and all but not present it before the government, they would not recognize it as a marriage and or sanctify it as a marriage if you will.


Uhmmm.....not really, most states recognize traditional marriages in which lovers just live together and produce kids...


Yes but for the state to recognize it there has to be a marriage licence between the two. Which is where the court comes in.

...no Sir. In traditional marriage states, the elements are totally separate from that of civil marriages. No license whatsoever is required - some require only that the couple live together for specified number of years and that friends and family recognize them as couple.Thats it.

Johnyjuan's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:51 PM
What do you want ??? You can either get God's advise or reject it simple as that it's a no brainer your a pastor don't make the word harder than it is

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:51 PM







God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.


You can look at it this way. In this world marriages are only considered marriages if it's through the court system, in America. So if two people were to go through the marriage ceremony and all but not present it before the government, they would not recognize it as a marriage and or sanctify it as a marriage if you will.


Uhmmm.....not really, most states recognize traditional marriages in which lovers just live together and produce kids...


Yes but for the state to recognize it there has to be a marriage licence between the two. Which is where the court comes in.

...no Sir. In traditional marriage states, the elements are totally separate from that of civil marriages. No license whatsoever is required - some require only that the couple live together for specified number of years and that friends and family recognize them as couple.Thats it.


Ok I was not aware of that. Anyhow, if the marriage isn't presented before our father done by a preacher then how would it be sanctified by our father? That marriage of which we're speaking of is only deemed married because of living together for a certain length of time, it's not presented before the father.

CowboyGH's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:53 PM

What do you want ??? You can either get God's advise or reject it simple as that it's a no brainer your a pastor don't make the word harder than it is


Not saying this person is, but alot of people try to make following the word of God sound complicated and or they complicate it themselves.

MyLastGroom's photo
Sun 11/07/10 10:57 PM





God doesn't join two people in that essence. We are to find someone we can love. "There's someone for everyone" is sort of a myth. There is if you wish to make it that way, but automatically it isn't that way. In marriage God merely recognizes the request to be joined with one another. He doesn't "instigate" it.


Great perspective! How about in societies or communities that neither believes in nor accept "God" as an authority. They equally marry - who does the recognizing thing you refer to - which kind of validates the choice?


My perspective it wouldn't hold much at all. For it wasn't sanctified by our father. It's by God's authority that we do become as one flesh to enjoy each other for eternity, so with it not being set out before our father I do not believe he would sanctify it.

...so what happens when the marriage, supposedly "sanctified by the father" bitterly dissolves? How do we then define the ascribed sanctification? Presumably, whatever the Lord does shall be permanent. When impermanence results, whose act/choice is impugned?


There technically isn't anything as a "divorce". The bible specifically says let no man put asunder what the father has joined. But, if one of the spouses cheats on the other, the marriage becomes obsolete.

The only way to be completely absolved from the marriage is for one of the spouses to have passed away on earth.

Marriages will ONLY work if both spouses push it to work. It working is through the actions the two takes towards each other through their life together. The father doesn't take our free will away therefore does not stop such from happening even though he's sanctified the marriage.


Well well, here I beg to differ with you a bit. There is such a thing as "divorce" - ideally and really. It is as old as the human race and has been practiced in traditional and theocratic societies before ever Abraham was born.
Yes, the Bible forbids divorce in cases of "what GOD JOINED TOGETHER" so the question is, how many marriages can confidently claim that GOD PUT them together. Being put together by God is different from being put together by a priest or pastor, etc. God sees the end from the begining, so if he puts together something he already foresaw breaking apart, then that raises question as to the wisdom. But knowing that it is impossible to overturn God's purpose, I am of the view that if God himself put a marriage together, no matter what, it will succeed.

But then, the world is not a theocracy. My issue is that the rate of divorce is highest among those who readily make the claim that God put them together to start with.....that's the issue.

Previous 1