I'm going to copy and paste some things from the "Closer to God" thread over into this thread, so we can debate over here. I like the debate, I just want to keep that other thread very non-debating, relaxed, and brainstorming.

"What ways are there to pray?"

There are many ways to pray. You can pray outloud or pray in your mind, either way, you shouldn't do it to be a spectacle. If you want something, you should pray for it a lot, as a way of proving to God how important it is to you. That doesn't mean God will do or give you want you want, but I suppose it makes it more likely. I think the only formulaic prayer that we should use is the Lord's prayer taught by Jesus. Other than that, you should let the words come out of your heart as they are. Don't waste your time saying "Lord, Lord, Lord", saying God's name many times is like thinking that if you call to Him enough, then and only then, He will hear you. Other's believe that you have to end each prayer with "In Jesus' name" or "Amen", but that's not true. God hears your every desire, but he only answers prayers that are made by good people for good things. "In Jesus' name", means in Jesus' place. You should always ask for what Jesus would ask for in your place. You can add "In Jesus' name" or "Amen" if you want, but don't think that it's like clicking the "Send" button in your email, God knows what you are going to pray for before you start.

Hope this helps.

"I'd like to add: "Serving others"."

"how about giving to the poor. Or just doing randome acts of kindness. I think that always works "

I'm going to have to strongly disagree. If your goal is to get close to God, then read the Bible, pray and obey the commandments. I don't believe you can grow closer to God by serving others by itself. There are many altruistic and loving non-Christians in the world. Sometimes seeing the suffering of the world without understanding God's plan can work to drive you away from God instead of towards Him. Charity and love for your neighbor is wonderful and a goal we should all seek to acheive, but they will become second nature if you love God and serve Him with all of your heart. The first three of the 10 commandments tell us to get right with God, so getting right with God should come before doing right by man.

As I posted earlier...

Job 35:5-8
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Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds which are higher than thou. If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him? If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand? Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man.
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Doing good by our fellow man doesn't give God anything. Doing wrong by man doesn't take anything away from God. Serving God with a humble and loving heart is the way to knowing God and eventually the path to serving all of mankind.

I'm sure someone or many someones will want to debate, so they can do it here. I'm not interested in debating, but have at it. Who knows, I might feel that I have to add my 2 cents later.

I'm too slow... these post are coming from this thread:

http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/29028

Religion -> "Getting closer to God"

I was going to try to move other people's debates into this thread, but first I saw something I'd like to disagree with!!!

Ghostrecon wrote:

>> I don't mean to be a Party pooper. But when one pray's over their food, let's say. And the food is of very low quality as far as health goes. Isn't that counter productive? I mean to give thanks for the food you are about to ingest is good but if it's eventually going to kill you by being highly cholesterol hardening then wouldn't that be thanking God for this posion

Ghost,

To my view the benefit of prayer is largely an internal process. Prayer improves the state of the mind and the body. It changes the way you think about something, the way you feel, and it effects your endocrine system, it changes your blood pressure, influences the activity of your liver and panceas.

No matter what you are eating, I believe your body 'deals with the food best' if you have a peaceful and loving state of mind, and prayer helps to bring that state of mind.

And if God is answering prayers, then mightn't God help to protect against the harmful effects of such food?

Spider wrote:

>> Doing good by our fellow man doesn't give God anything. Doing wrong by man doesn't take anything away from God. Serving God with a humble and loving heart is the way to knowing God and eventually the path to serving all of mankind.

Does God not ask Christians to serve others? I'm not Christian, so I might be mistaken.

Also, I agree that not all ideas given in that other thread will be 'equally beneficial', but would not serving others help to cultivate humility, and an attitude of service? Is not ego sometimes an obstacle to accepting God? So could not 'helping others' help prepare someone for later steps, in which they get closer to God?

"What ways are there to pray?"

Meditate. Do your every day thing. Or just take a walk in the woods to be closer with nature. Think out load.
That ussually is a sign your in tune at least with your mind.

Ghost

Personnal I like to surf porn sites. LOL

"Does God not ask Christians to serve others? I'm not Christian, so I might be mistaken. "

Yes and I'm not saying we shouldn't. But in all things, God comes first. Get right with God and then He can use you for His purpose, which is always for a greater good than you can imagine.

A quick observation - when I said "closer to God", i simply mean "closer than you'd be if you didn't", not necessarily "especially close" to God.

So even if "serving others" failed to bring people closer than some threshold, it would (or could) still bring them closer.

"Get right with God and then He can use you"

Oh I like that part. Use and abuse us too.

So how do we actually get so called right with God then. By acknowledging a supernatural being that man created in the first place.

Hey may be some enjoy being used but I.

massagetrade,

If we are talking about Christianity, I have to fall back to Job 35:5-8. You can also look at what Jesus taught: we should first love God, then love man. If you love God, then you will love men, because that's what God wants from us. But God comes first. Millions of athiests love their fellow man and have no desire to know God.

Ghostrecon,

Is that supposed to make me mad? Since I became a Christian I have met people who deny God's existance, call me indoctrinated, a fool and every other name under the sun. It's nothing new and it's actually kind of boring now.

If you don't believe in God, then why are you involved in a discussion of prayer? What do you pray to and why would you pray if you don't believe that there is anything out there to hear what you have to say?

Ghost,

I believe many people benefit from getting their ego out of the way from the total process of their own consciousness. The ego is just one part, and it can interfere with the smooth operation of the whole. The metaphor of 'being used' is a great way to soften the ego.

On the other hand, it can be dangerous to take that belief to far - especially in the context of religious structures. If people believe its a good thing to be "used by God" and some other person interprets God's will for that person, then that person may end up being "used" by another person, when they think they are serving God.

Back to the first hand, I think it can be 'done right'. Giving oneself over to God, embracing service to God, can be so healthy for the mind.

Being used? Hmmm, that's one way of looking at it, I guess. My theory on this though is pay attention to internal feelings and indicators of the attitude of self. If doing whatever you're thinking of doing for somebody else is done with a feeling of resentment or makes you feel as if you're being used that totally eliminates the aspect of self-less act anyway. Me personally, I don't think selfless acts are thought about. You may realize it was a selfless thing later, but when the act is committed its just done cause it was what needed to be done. Does this make sense?

I saw a woman at work, whom I didn't know and had never talked to outside of a few words and I knew that she needed someone to talk to, so I did. She didn't have to say anything or cry to get my attention, I just passed her in the hall and I felt that I should help her. Without the Holy Spirit guiding me, I wouldn't have said anything to her. She was leaving the company for family reasons, but she didn't want to. I prayed for her and the company's management decided she can now work from home two weeks a month, which has allowed her to keep her job. Maybe just a random thing, but she says I helped her when she was really down and our company's management decided at the last minute to make this allowance for her. Take it for what you will, but to me, that is God using me for His purpose. I believe that the prayers I offered on her behalf were inline with what God wanted in her life, ie they were in Jesus' name.

Spider, I've been involved with similar situations to yours with people too. That's what I mean about the selfless acts. Its the right thing for you to do, whether its praying for them, giving them a hug if that's what feels right, or just simply listening to them and letting them verbalize what's going on in their life can help a lot more than most people would probably think.

>> Being used? Hmmm, that's one way of looking at it, I guess.

It has negative connotations for most, but need not.

>> My theory on this though is pay attention to internal feelings and indicators of the attitude of self.

Do you mean, as a way of being aware of God's will for you? Or an awareness of whether you are serving God, or at least have an 'attitude of servitude' ?

>> Me personally, I don't think selfless acts are thought about. You may realize it was a selfless thing later, but when the act is committed its just done cause it was what needed to be done. Does this make sense?

It sure does to me. I believe all consciously chosen (and most unconsciously chosen) acts are selfish on some level.

Your asking a lot of questions tonight, Mass, that I really have to think about. I believe with me being in this form at this time is the result of an agreement of "servitude" that God and I already agreed on before I even assumed womb state in my mother, so to speak. Some may call this servitude. I call it a gig myself which is not meant to offend anyone's sensibilities that's just how I think of it. When I'm saying check how you feel about something - this may help determine if an outside person is manipulating you in some form or other. The other thing it can indicate is whether or not the individual is being ruled by their ego versus something done for the higher good of all involved, which I would imagine can be called many other things, including servitude. I go with right and wrong action to try to make my determinations. I study and practice earth religions too and the concept of what you put out comes back to you three-fold makes you stop and think exactly who you're trying to benefit and why by your actions.

Spider,

My belief structure is 'weak atheist', and yet I believe I know intimately of what Christians speak when they say 'guided by the holy spirit'. You feel guided to do something, especially something inconsistent with your self image. You don't question, you don't analyze, you don't doubt, you just do (or say or whatever) exactly as... as the guidance indicates. Sometimes it doesn't make any sense at all that you would do that thing. Amazingly positive things happen, things which are entirely inconsistent with what normal experience would indicate 'should' happen when making a choice like that.

I'm not saying you said otherwise, but to my view, this whole notion that 'guidance of the holy spirit' is only available to Christians is one of the many falsehoods some Christians tell each other in order to support their perception of the unique rightness of their worldview. Its circular logic. If one believes only 'the saved' can experience the guidance of the holy spirit as a 'fact', then they will interpret the 'evidence' (which, on this topic, is always personal or anecdotal and subjective anyway) to be consistent with that 'fact'.