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| Topic: A new time travel experiment | |
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Edited by
metalwing
on
Thu 03/17/11 10:49 AM
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Fun times at CERN Too bad the collider's damage will keep experimental energies low for the next two years.
Could Atom Smasher be Used as a Time Machine? Published March 16, 2011 AP Geneva, Switzerland – In a 'long shot' theory, physicists propose that the world's largest atom smasher could be used as a time machine to send a special kind of matter backward in time. The scientists outline a way to use the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 17-mile long (27-km) particle accelerator buried underground near Geneva, to send a hypothetical particle called the Higgs singlet to the past. There are a lot of "ifs" to the conjecture, including the major question of whether or not the Higgs singlet even exists and could be created in the machine. "Our theory is a long shot, but it doesn't violate any laws of physics or experimental constraints," physicist Tom Weiler of Vanderbilt University said in a statement. However, if the theory proves correct, the researchers say the method could be used to send messages to the past or the future. Weiler and Vanderbilt graduate fellow Chui Man Ho describe their idea in a paper posted March 7 on the research website arXiv.org. Elusive Higgs The Higgs singlet is related to another theorized but not yet detected particle called the Higgs boson. This particle, and its related Higgs field, are thought to confer mass on all the other particles, and its discovery could help scientists answer the question, why do some particles have more mass than others? The search for the Higgs boson was one of the main motivations for building the LHC in the first place. Since the atom smasher began regular operation last year, it has yet to find evidence of the Higgs boson, but the machine is still ramping up to its peak energies. If the collider does succeed in producing a Higgs boson, some theories predict that it will create a Higgs singlet at the same time. This particle may have a unique ability to jump out of the normal three dimensions of space and one dimension of time that we inhabit, and into a hidden dimension theorized to exist by some advanced physics models. By traveling through the hidden dimension, Higgs singlets could reenter our dimensions at a point forward or backward in time from when they exited. "One of the attractive things about this approach to time travel is that it avoids all the big paradoxes," Weiler said. "Because time travel is limited to these special particles, it is not possible for a man to travel back in time and murder one of his parents before he himself is born, for example. However, if scientists could control the production of Higgs singlets, they might be able to send messages to the past or future." M theory The test of the researchers' theory will be whether the LHC shows evidence of Higgs singlet particles and their decay products spontaneously appearing. If it does, Weiler and Ho believe that they will have been produced by particles that travel back in time to appear before the collisions that produced them. The theory is based on M-theory, a "theory of everything" that attempts to unite the forces of nature and describe everything in the universe. It's based on string theory, which posits that all particles are fundamentally made up of tiny vibrating strings. Theoretical physicists have developed M-theory to the point that it can accommodate the properties of all the known subatomic particles and forces, including gravity, but it requires 10 or 11 dimensions instead of our familiar four. This has led to the suggestion that our universe may be like a four-dimensional membrane or "brane" floating in a multi-dimensional space-time called the "bulk." According to this view, the basic building blocks of our universe are permanently stuck to the brane and cannot travel in other dimensions. There are some exceptions, however. Some argue that gravity, for example, is weaker than other fundamental forces because it diffuses into other dimensions. Another possible exception is the proposed Higgs singlet, which responds to gravity but not to any of the other basic forces. |
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Well if this theory can be proven then why haven't the scientists that are working on it now, after proving it in the future, just send themselves a message from the future that will help them prove it now.
 Maybe it's because like the conspiracy theorists have stated in the past, that the problems at CERN are the result of future scientists intentionally sabotaging the LHC, because in the future the LHC causes a catastrophic disaster that will eventually destroy the planet. So scientists from the future are sending messages back to the present to keep the scientists from the present from destroying the future. If these scientists from the future are successful the scientists from the present will fail, thereby causing the scientists in the future to have nothing to worry about. But if they have nothing to worry about they won't send anything back to the past and the scientists from the present will continue on the course they are on destroying the future. I think I have a headache now! Good thing those tiny little particles can't create any type of paradox.   
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Well if this theory can be proven then why haven't the scientists that are working on it now, after proving it in the future, just send themselves a message from the future that will help them prove it now. Maybe it's because like the conspiracy theorists have stated in the past, that the problems at CERN are the result of future scientists intentionally sabotaging the LHC, because in the future the LHC causes a catastrophic disaster that will eventually destroy the planet. So scientists from the future are sending messages back to the present to keep the scientists from the present from destroying the future. If these scientists from the future are successful the scientists from the present will fail, thereby causing the scientists in the future to have nothing to worry about. But if they have nothing to worry about they won't send anything back to the past and the scientists from the present will continue on the course they are on destroying the future. I think I have a headache now! Good thing those tiny little particles can't create any type of paradox. Maybe all of that happened to Earth2 and the guys at this CERN never get the machine up to full power! 
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..wouldn't one have to prove that time exist on a separate plane first..i do not see this ever happening..mainly because you have two like forces traveling towards one another..time going backwards and time going forwards..looks like a train wreck to me...  ..but eh..what the hell do i know... ..now don't get me wrong i do think in time we will find a faster way for space travel..i just don't think the past is out there..perhaps in theory ..but reality is a whole different concept... ...jmo
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"... In a 'long shot' theory, physicists propose that the world's largest atom smasher could be used as a time machine to send a special kind of matter backward in time. " --->>>There are a lot of "ifs" to the conjecture, including the major question of whether or not the Higgs singlet even exists and could be created in the machine. Just because they call themselves "physicists" they come up with these ideas and call them theories? If they are physicists they should have realized that time does not actually exist. "One of the attractive things about this approach to time travel is that it avoids all the big paradoxes," Weiler said. "Because time travel is limited to these special particles, it is not possible for a man to travel back in time and murder one of his parents before he himself is born, for example. However, if scientists could control the production of Higgs singlets, they might be able to send messages to the past or future." Even with messages, the paradox can still exist. The grandfather paradox is just an example. Where did this Weiler go to school anyway? I shudder to think that these guys are running that atom smasher and they don't know what they are doing. |
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If they are physicists they should have realized that time does not actually exist. Actually, Einstein's theories are based on time existing in conjunction with and integral to space, i.e., neither can exist without the other. This concept is why, in context with physics, the term "space/time" is usually used when discussing one or the other. Time exists in exactly the same context as space exists. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/23/11 04:37 PM
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If they are physicists they should have realized that time does not actually exist. Actually, Einstein's theories are based on time existing in conjunction with and integral to space, i.e., neither can exist without the other. This concept is why, in context with physics, the term "space/time" is usually used when discussing one or the other. Time exists in exactly the same context as space exists. Actually, we like to think so. But even in that context time travel is not really possible. As spacetime is an illusion, so would any perceived experience of time travel be an illusion. It would be more like changing the program in a holodeck. |
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The theory is based on M-theory, a "theory of everything" that attempts to unite the forces of nature and describe everything in the universe. It's based on string theory, which posits that all particles are fundamentally made up of tiny vibrating strings. This M-theory is very sexist. I wouldn't be surprised if M stood for Male Ego. I mean, these scientists, they are so self centered, sexist and sex-crazed... and self-depracative. Most Nobel-prize winners can't get it out of their heads and theorize that the universe is fundamentally made up of tiny vibrating strings, especially if a picture Paris Hilton in a Gauvano Armandello dress is shown to it. Talk about Freud complex with inferiority complex galore thrown in for good measure. You can't measure it? Then use the damm strign, fer goodnesses's sake. |
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"One of the attractive things about this approach to time travel is that it avoids all the big paradoxes," Weiler said. "Because time travel is limited to these special particles, it is not possible for a man to travel back in time and murder one of his parents before he himself is born, for example. However, if scientists could control the production of Higgs singlets, they might be able to send messages to the past or future." Even with messages, the paradox can still exist. The grandfather paradox is just an example. Where did this Weiler go to school anyway? I shudder to think that these guys are running that atom smasher and they don't know what they are doing. what is the grandfather paradox? |
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The grandfather paradox is a proposed paradox of time travel first described (in this exact form) by the science fiction writer René Barjavel in his 1943 book Le Voyageur Imprudent (The Imprudent Traveller).[1] The paradox is this: suppose a man traveled back in time and killed his biological grandfather before the latter met the traveler's grandmother. As a result, one of the traveler's parents (and by extension the traveler himself) would never have been conceived. This would imply that he could not have traveled back in time after all, which means the grandfather would still be alive, and the traveler would have been conceived allowing him to travel back in time and kill his grandfather. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation, a type of logical paradox.
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so in that paradox...its irrelevant even if one could travel through time, in more than one direction because andy action to change events of the past would negate themselves and it would play out as it had
as if time were a river..you can't make it flow in the opposite direction( simply put) so what if you simply wanted to move forward in time...like HG Wells story, Where is the paradox for that? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/23/11 05:15 PM
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You can travel into the future, but it would be a one way trip.
Here is how: Have your body frozen and stored for 100 years. Then defrost it and have it reanimated. You are now 100 years into the future, same body.  Providing your same soul reanimates that body. If not, you could be like a creepy zombie or a completely different person. |
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the whole thing is a waste of "time".... time travel is impossible, and they know it... maybe they could move forward, but NEVER backwards
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If they are physicists they should have realized that time does not actually exist. Actually, Einstein's theories are based on time existing in conjunction with and integral to space, i.e., neither can exist without the other. This concept is why, in context with physics, the term "space/time" is usually used when discussing one or the other. Time exists in exactly the same context as space exists. Actually, we like to think so. But even in that context time travel is not really possible. As spacetime is an illusion, so would any perceived experience of time travel be an illusion. It would be more like changing the program in a holodeck. Actually, you are projecting. You are confusing physics with your view of reality. Your statement that time does not exist is false in the mathematics of physics. Time is integral with space. The experiments described at the beginning of the thread are real, although the experiments may not be successful. There is a theory that has quite a few believers that antimatter is simply matter traveling backwards in time. A pretty good case can be made to explain the process. |
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If they are physicists they should have realized that time does not actually exist. Actually, Einstein's theories are based on time existing in conjunction with and integral to space, i.e., neither can exist without the other. This concept is why, in context with physics, the term "space/time" is usually used when discussing one or the other. Time exists in exactly the same context as space exists. Actually, we like to think so. But even in that context time travel is not really possible. As spacetime is an illusion, so would any perceived experience of time travel be an illusion. It would be more like changing the program in a holodeck. Actually, you are projecting. You are confusing physics with your view of reality. Your statement that time does not exist is false in the mathematics of physics. Time is integral with space. The experiments described at the beginning of the thread are real, although the experiments may not be successful. There is a theory that has quite a few believers that antimatter is simply matter traveling backwards in time. A pretty good case can be made to explain the process. i never herd that theory.i always looked at antimatter as the opposite of matter, like a positive and a negative charge... when they connect, they spark, or clash... i can never see anyone going back in time, the concept is unreal to me. but your dimensional theory has got me thinking.... |
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so in that paradox...its irrelevant even if one could travel through time, in more than one direction because andy action to change events of the past would negate themselves and it would play out as it had as if time were a river..you can't make it flow in the opposite direction( simply put) so what if you simply wanted to move forward in time...like HG Wells story, Where is the paradox for that? Actually, in the theory of infinite alternate universes, every action of that type would simply create a different "timeline" of reality. Your grandfather would still exist but in a different timeline of existence. This theory would be consistent with M theory.(which doesn't make it necessarily reality) Science does not know that time travel is impossible. |
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so in that paradox...its irrelevant even if one could travel through time, in more than one direction because andy action to change events of the past would negate themselves and it would play out as it had as if time were a river..you can't make it flow in the opposite direction( simply put) so what if you simply wanted to move forward in time...like HG Wells story, Where is the paradox for that? Actually, in the theory of infinite alternate universes, every action of that type would simply create a different "timeline" of reality. Your grandfather would still exist but in a different timeline of existence. This theory would be consistent with M theory.(which doesn't make it necessarily reality) Science does not know that time travel is impossible. i've always belived the if someone could go back in the past, thats what would happen... kind of like the TV show sliders, where there are millions of alternate realities. |
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Here is another source ...
Researchers speculate that time travel can occur within a kind of feedback loop where backwards movement is possible, but only in a way that is "complementary" to the present. In other words, you can pop back in time and have a look around, but you cannot do anything that will alter the present you left behind. The new model, which uses the laws of quantum mechanics, gets rid of the famous paradox surrounding time travel. Paradox explained Although the laws of physics seem to permit temporal gymnastics, the concept is laden with uncomfortable contradictions. The main headache stems from the idea that if you went back in time you could, theoretically, do something to change the present; and that possibility messes up the whole theory of time travel. Clearly, the present never is changed by mischievous time-travellers: people don't suddenly fade into the ether because a rerun of events has prevented their births - that much is obvious. You go back to kill your father, but you'd arrive after he'd left the room, you wouldn't find him, or you'd change your mind Professor Dan Greenberger, City University, New York So either time travel is not possible, or something is actually acting to prevent any backward movement from changing the present. For most of us, the former option might seem most likely, but Einstein's general theory of relativity leads some physicists to suspect the latter. According to Einstein, space-time can curve back on itself, theoretically allowing travellers to double back and meet younger versions of themselves. And now a team of physicists from the US and Austria says this situation can only be the case if there are physical constraints acting to protect the present from changes in the past. |
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Since I know you are dying to chew on this concept ....
Dark Matter, Antimatter, and Time-Symmetry by Trevor Pitts Abstract: If space, time and mass-energy expand outward from the Big Bang along the time axis equally in the (+) and (-) directions, then time is symmetric by Weyl's definition. In the Feynman-Stueckelberg Interpretation, antimatter is identical to matter but moves backward in time. This paper argues that this interpretation is physically real, leading to the universe containing dark matter with mass accumulations similar to ordinary matte. As time expands, in both directions away from the origin, quantum uncertainty allows a brief, decreasing leakage of mass between (+) and (-) universes. Matter leaking from (-) to (+) time moves forward in time, producing preponderance of matter in (+) time. Antimatter leakage from (+) time to (-) time in the same way produces antimatter preponderance in the (-) time universe. The remaining opposite partner particles left by the leakage, (antimatter and matter respectively) proceeding outward in antitime and time respectively, after many annihilations also increase the two preponderances in the two universes. The anti-universe should be observable by gravitational lensing, predicting "MACHOS" of approximately stellar mass, and multiple micro-lensing of quasars. Non-existence of primordial antimatter of Z > 1, and a large variation in the quantities of dark matter associated with different individual galaxies are predicted. A symmetry is provided for Nodland and Ralston's observed maximum axis of rotation of polarization of galactic synchrotron radiation. A new solution of the horizon problem at times close to the origin is indicated. Collapse of the wave function and time's arrow are explained and non-locality and instantaneity of quantum interaction required. Einstein's "block time" determinism and quantum indeterminacy are reconciled. Extension of the hypothesis to six dimensions gives an 83.3% dark matter share of the universe. The purpose of this paper is to explore the consequences of complete time-symmetry. The hypothesis below may seem radical and bizarre, but it should be remembered that many fundamental theoretical breakthroughs in 20th century physics, have been a consequence of some new symmetry argument. Previously unrelated mysteries are then often illuminated. Gravitational lensing studies (1) have detected non-radiating MACHOS of a mass so large that they should be visible, not brown dwarfs or super-jovian planets. This is a complete mystery under current theory. Temporary suspension of disbelief may be worthwhile, since the theory below can fit these MACHO observations. The is MUCH more at http://arxiv.org/html/physics/9812021 |
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metalwing said: Actually, you are projecting. I know what I mean by that term, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by that term. You are confusing physics with your view of reality. Your statement that time does not exist is false in the mathematics of physics. Time is integral with space. The experiments described at the beginning of the thread are real, although the experiments may not be successful. I never said the experiments were not real. Anyone can do experiments. There is a theory that has quite a few believers that antimatter is simply matter traveling backwards in time. A pretty good case can be made to explain the process. Even if anti-matter is said to be traveling backwards in time that "time" has to be in relation to some system of observation. In our case, human observation would be the important system. |
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