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| Topic: When the Bible is discredited... | |
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it amazes me that people continue to assess that love can be found 'anywhere' but seperation, hate, judgment, ridicule,,etc,, are exclusively the result of 'religion' this is a common mistake made by christians, msharmony. don't know if it's paranoia or what but i don't recall anybody here or anyplace else say that "seperation, hate, judgment, ridicule, etc., are EXCLUSIVELY the result of religion. what people most often say and what christians fail to hear is that many, many people within and without religion have these harmful traits and that being christian, muslim or whatever religion does not ensure that a person will be any more or less guilty of those things. on the contrary, ask a christian where righteousness can be found and i most often hear, "only from the bible". perhaps you've experienced people saying that all the problems of the world are do to religion but i'd never say that nor have i ever heard anybody say that. yes, i do believe the world would be a safer place without religious dogma to infect the minds of people of weak minds who are easily manipulated into doing dastardly deeds. but i hardly blame all the worlds troubles on religion. likewise, I have never heard a crhistian state that righteousness only 'comes from the bible' anyone who puts character traits onto written words has problems whatever attribute man has comes from MAN, it can be promoted, encouraged, discouraged, condemned by other men through spoken or written word but goodness, nor evil, nor righteousness, nor unrighteousness, nor closeness to God, or resistance to God, 'come from' any book, they come from inside man and are all parts of what he is naturally capable of and prone to,, |
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Nothing will ever be accepted. Take a look at particularly intelligent sci-fi series and films: Star Trek, Firefly, Fifth Element (yes, I know this is a quasi-religious film in and of itself), The Matrix, etc. Also know that many of the writers and directors are themselves atheists who still understand that no matter how technology progresses and how much understanding humanity has of the universe, religion will still exist in pretty much the form it exists now.
No one who believes will ever understand that what they believe is because of WHERE and TO WHOM they were born (in most cases). Born in America? You're most likely going to be a Christian. Born in Afghanistan? Most likely a Muslim. Born in India? Most likely Hindu. Yes, you have a few converts here and there, but that's mainly those who aren't finding what they need in their default religion and either by fluke coincidences (they believe to be miracles or the voice of whatever God) or personal preference in what is written (because it sounds good), they will transpose themselves. And they will never make the connection unless they suspend their own belief in these ancient fables for any given amount of time. Its just not going to happen. And by the way, to those of you saying you "accept" and "respect" other systems of belief, you do not. By proclaiming yourself a member of any religion, you believe you are right and therefore its an AUTOMATIC assumption on your part that everyone else is wrong and foolish for their dissenting belief. Its impossible for circumstances to be otherwise ... you know the "truth" and those not of your denomination are "lost". If a Christian does not believe s/he was right, they wouldn't rightly be a Christian, would they? Religion is mostly territorial. I spent the first seven years of my life in Tennessee. Guess the religion of the majority of my family? No, its not Hindi, just as its not likely you'll find a native of India to be a Southern Baptist. And they still won't make (or accept) that connection. And before anyone calls me "bitter" or "angry", I'll freely admit it. My beef with religion is not the 'morals' it proclaims to pass on, its the fear behind it. The "believe or burn" mentality, the "I'm better than you because my imaginary friend can beat up (is better than) your imaginary friend". Its all grade school and yes MG, its just as juvenile as spitballs. My $.02. |
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but seperation, hate, judgment, ridicule,,etc,, are exclusively the result of 'religion' I have never taken that stance personally. All I'm saying is that you don't need to support bigoted religions to be a good person. And I'm also saying that religions that EXCLUDE people from their "God" for not believing in their religious dogma are ALREADY supporting a hateful and divisive notion whether they realize it or not. You don't need to support Christian religious bigotry to recognize that the moral values taught by Jesus were worthy of following. What I find to be truly sad is that this religion took such a GOOD THING (like the moral values of Jesus) and destroyed them by using Jesus as an icon to support religious bigotry. Like I say, the very religion that claims to support Jesus has actually become the antithesis of the moral precepts that Jesus himself apparently tried to teach. Love everyone without "judging", INCLUDING (and perhaps especially) to not judge them based on whether or not they think Jesus was the son of the God of Abraham. Using Jesus himself as the standard by which to JUDGE other people's relationship with God has to be the greatest irony in all of history. likewise, Ive never taken the stance that to be 'good' one must follow a 'religion' I just tire of being told that its pointless to be 'good' AND follow a religion Jesus taught the doctrine of God, and he did so embracing all, but he still sent people away as well with instruction to humble themself and love God completely if people were to love God completely, I could say, it would eliminate alot of evil in the world but that would be a HUGE assumption, and some people would find it about as possible as they apparently find abstaining from sex It is our nature to think of OURSELF(our pleasures) first and any plea to restrict them in any way is met , by our nature, with resistance A great example is that we are taught in formal education about fight or flight, that our NATURAL instinct when we are in danger is to fight or run,,that is what is INDOCTRINATED into us from a young age in defining our very IDENTITY as humans but Jesus said, we have a third option, to turn the other cheek,, neither fighting nor running,,,these third options are present in many situations which seem like no brainers and which we are indoctrinated to believe our 'natural' and 'normal' and harmless We define ourself by our own pleasure and Jesus taught us to be pleasing to God,, he did not do it with brimstone and punishments, he just taught because that was his purpose I have no problem with "loving God completely". But the problem with Christianity is that they claim to KNOW what God expects from people via the BIBLE! And therein lies the problem. They refuse to recognize that atheists can actually be "loving God completely" without even acknowledging religion and religious doctrines, or even the actual concept of "God" itself. If I see an atheists who loves life and people, then as far as I'm concerned they "Love God Completely" for there is nothing more to loving God than loving life and people. I don't judge a same-gender couples to not be "Loving God Completely" just because some ancient doctrine claims that God hates homosexuality. The problem with the Christian concept of "Loving God Completely" is precisely that it's tied directly to JUDGING whether people are in compliance with this via claims that have been made in the BIBLE. And that includes JESUS! No Christian is going to acknowledge that I am "Loving God Completely" if I refuse to recognize and acknowledge Jesus as the only begotten son of the God of Abraham who died to pay for my sins as the sacrificial lamb of God. If I renounce all of that, then they would be totally convinced that I am NOT "Loving God Completely". So that whole notion becomes the Christian fodder for JUDGING whether or not a person is "Loving God Completely". That's the problem right there. Also, just for the record I disagree with your evaluation of those ancient stories for example you just said: A great example is that we are taught in formal education about fight or flight, that our NATURAL instinct when we are in danger is to fight or run,,that is what is INDOCTRINATED into us from a young age in defining our very IDENTITY as humans but Jesus said, we have a third option, to turn the other cheek,, neither fighting nor running,,,these third options are present in many situations which seem like no brainers and which we are indoctrinated to believe our 'natural' and 'normal' and harmless i don't believe that Jesus even remotely would suggest that anyone be stupid. If you're in DANGER by all means RUN! To stand there turning your other cheek would be pure stupidity. See, a religion that is based on interpretations from specific doctrines as being the CORRECT things to do in order to be "Completely Loving God" is already problematic. Because not everyone will even agree on the interpretations. I believe that when Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek he meant that as a metaphor implying that we should not SEEK REVENGE like the Jews had been TAUGHT to do by the Torah via an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He never implied that a person should be so stupid as to stand in the face of danger physically offering up their other cheek. That would be utterly stupid and serve no one any good purpose, IMHO. ~~~~ So as soon as we begin to claim that some specific doctrine represents the precise behavior that some God expects or requests from us, we are already asking for problems because no two people will agree on what those doctrines actually mean. ~~~~ We are far better off to recognize that Jesus was just a mortal man like the rest of us and simply did his best to try to get his fellow Jews from doing the horrific things that the Torah had taught them to do. After all they had been taught that God approves and condones the seeking of revenge and getting EVEN. "And eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" they had been taught as God's directive. Jesus was just trying to get his fellow brothers to rise above that. But for people today to take that to mean that we should foolishly offer up our other cheek to people who are taking advantage of us or physically attacking would be foolish, IMHO. I don't believe that Jesus was asking anyone to be a fool. ~~~~ Do you think Jesus would have us turn the other cheek to someone like Hitler. Oh sure Adolf, come on over and make slaves out of us. We'll do twice the work for you that you ask of us! No, I don't believe that Jesus would expect anyone to be so foolish. yet isnt this what he did? when he had power to feed multitudes and turn water to wine, instead of 'fighting back' when he was to be crucified he offered himself up? this is what I mean by we have all been 'indoctrinated' to believe something or another it is considered stupid by most to do the very things Jesus indeed did do, because we do not see the picture that God sees , because we didnt design it but this is all beside the point I expect that Jesus wanted us to Love God Completely, which means respecting the design he made by caring for it the way he asked to many that seems to trivial a thing for a 'God' to ask, and for others it doesnt. I also want to point out that love and sex are never mentioned as the same thing , biblically speaking, but MAN has indoctrinated man into believing such,,,, God didnt HATE homsexuals, he hated sin,, plain and simple He hated unnatural , unhealthy, and (to mirror the logic earlier in the thread) unnecessary treatment of the human body , or the human spirit. Gluttony is also something that he did not approve of, an unhealthy treatment of the body, unnecessary and contrary to how he designed it. These things have nothing to do with HATING people, these have to do with wanting people at their healthiest spiritually and physically. Hating sin, hating unhealthy or uncleanness. |
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NO prophecy of scripture ever came about by the prophets own interpretation.. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man... But holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit...
This is How Jesus Christ penned every word.... It is a fact that the natural man percieves all spirituality to be foolishness and we are taught that from scriptures as well.. The natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit, nor can they do so.. It is foolishness to them because they are spiritually discerned.. The spiritual man however makes judgements about all things but he himself is subject to no mans judgement. For who has known the thoughts of God, that He may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. Comparing spiritual with spiritual. The Word of God is the discerner of the thoughts and the intents of the heart.. The Word of God and the Holy Ghost are one in the same.. guiding the Christian into all Truth as God permits... |
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NO prophecy of scripture ever came about by the prophets own interpretation.. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man... But holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit... This is How Jesus Christ penned every word.... It is a fact that the natural man percieves all spirituality to be foolishness and we are taught that from scriptures as well.. The natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit, nor can they do so.. It is foolishness to them because they are spiritually discerned.. The spiritual man however makes judgements about all things but he himself is subject to no mans judgement. For who has known the thoughts of God, that He may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. Comparing spiritual with spiritual. The Word of God is the discerner of the thoughts and the intents of the heart.. The Word of God and the Holy Ghost are one in the same.. guiding the Christian into all Truth as God permits... this is what you believe what you believe may or may not be true(although ,by virtue of you believing it, you believe it to be true) I have similar beliefs regarding the spiritual vs the human, and they may or may not be true, but I wouldnt believe them if I had reason to think they werent true either |
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I just tire of being told that its pointless to be 'good' AND follow a religion I personally believe it counts more towards your act to do good because you are choosing to be a good person rather than merely because "you're told to (by God)". if people were to love God completely, I could say, it would eliminate alot of evil in the world The Crusades, Conquistadors, witch-hunts, suicide bombers ... Just a few examples of the "elimination of evil in the world" by various religious folk. Think about it. All these people "loved God" and yet more murder has been committed in the name of religion than for any other reason. Ever. Hands down. So --I-- CAN say that your statement is absolutely incorrect. |
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I just tire of being told that its pointless to be 'good' AND follow a religion I personally believe it counts more towards your act to do good because you are choosing to be a good person rather than merely because "you're told to (by God)". if people were to love God completely, I could say, it would eliminate alot of evil in the world The Crusades, Conquistadors, witch-hunts, suicide bombers ... Just a few examples of the "elimination of evil in the world" by various religious folk. Think about it. All these people "loved God" and yet more murder has been committed in the name of religion than for any other reason. Ever. Hands down. So --I-- CAN say that your statement is absolutely incorrect. its another stereotype, that christians believe in being good 'merely' because 'you'r told to by God' I doubt most people could explain to you why they feel some things are 'good' and others 'bad', let alone pinpoint one exclusive contributing factor its not much different than determining legal vs illegal, its a standard that comes in large part from external factors and how the environment/culture defines it,,,,,again, with or without religion |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Sun 06/26/11 04:27 PM
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And the truth is exposed.... People will one day completely discredit the Bible as mostly a work of fiction and discover how it was rewritten. It will be discovered that Abraham was a fictional character, as well as his so-called descendants. That is when all of the Abrahamic religions of the world will fall apart and the true lineage of the Jewish people will be discovered, because they certainly can't be God's chosen people when this happens. So in this way, the Jews and the Abrahamic religions are co-dependent on each other in the desire to prevent the truth from being known. This chipping away of the lies we have been told for centuries is happening now. No need to loose your belief in God, if you have one. But we have been lied to. Not surprising considering that you have stated in other threads that you believe in false discredited Nazi Antisemitic propaganda called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" It is the "true lineage of Jews" that bugs you? Jews can convert from any lineage and they have throughout history. Just like Christians and Muslims....  read all about it here: http://mingle2.com/topic/show/304030?page=12 and here http://mingle2.com/topic/show/305115 I agree that this reveals a lot about who you really are. Most Jews, Muslims and Christians do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible anyway. In fact, Jews require that the Bible be interpreted... |
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its another stereotype, that christians believe in being good 'merely' because 'you'r told to by God' Actually, the most common argument I hear from any religious is that without God there would be no morality. My counter-argument is that I do not need God to tell me how to treat other people. Why? My response to your statement: I doubt most people could explain to you why they feel some things are 'good' and others 'bad', let alone pinpoint one exclusive contributing factor Scientists have explained this actually. Its a behavior that's been programmed into us since before the first established civilizations. This "right" and "wrong" defines us as social beings and what we consider bad (attacking/killing others, stealing, etc--in otherwords, things that aren't mutually beneficial) gives the species as a whole the best chance of survival. Look into "(progressive) social evolution". its not much different than determining legal vs illegal, its a standard that comes in large part from external factors and how the environment/culture defines it,,,,,again, with or without religion You are right, culture defines laws ... however, I am still right because the counter-argument is that since the greater majority of people are religious, or at least claim to be (only 16% of this country is atheist), then laws are generally reflective of the most prominent religion. Proof? No one here can deny that anti-gay marriage laws are based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Abortion legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Stem Cell Research legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Even the simple inability to buy liquor on Sunday in some areas on the country are based SOLELY on religious views. Sorry. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 06/26/11 06:07 PM
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You are right, culture defines laws ... however, I am still right because the counter-argument is that since the greater majority of people are religious, or at least claim to be (only 16% of this country is atheist), then laws are generally reflective of the most prominent religion. Proof? No one here can deny that anti-gay marriage laws are based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Abortion legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Stem Cell Research legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Even the simple inability to buy liquor on Sunday in some areas on the country are based SOLELY on religious views. Sorry. So if the majority of the people are "religious" and abortion is legal, and Gay Marriage is being passed, and you can now buy liquor on Sunday, and Stem Cell Research is now being done I guess we can assume that these things were not voted on. Right? So what did we do? Elect leaders who are atheists? So either our elected leaders are atheists and lied about it, or they just don't care what the majority wants, or they don't live according to their religion. Is that a logical assumption? Do you think politicians lie about their real religious beliefs in order to get elected? If they lie about that, what else do they lie about? Better yet, what do they tell the truth about? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 06/26/11 06:20 PM
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Jews can convert from any lineage and they have throughout history. You can't 'convert' from your family lineage. That is your bloodline, your genes. lin·e·age [lin-ee-ij] Show IPA –noun 1. lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or extraction: She could trace her lineage to the early Pilgrims. 2. the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race Most Jews, Muslims and Christians do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible anyway. In fact, Jews require that the Bible be interpreted... Really? Most of what I hear from those who call themselves "true believers" is that the Bible is the infallible word of God. I guess all literature has to be interpreted to some extent, even by "true believers." |
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And the truth is exposed.... People will one day completely discredit the Bible as mostly a work of fiction and discover how it was rewritten. It will be discovered that Abraham was a fictional character, as well as his so-called descendants. That is when all of the Abrahamic religions of the world will fall apart and the true lineage of the Jewish people will be discovered, because they certainly can't be God's chosen people when this happens. So in this way, the Jews and the Abrahamic religions are co-dependent on each other in the desire to prevent the truth from being known. This chipping away of the lies we have been told for centuries is happening now. No need to loose your belief in God, if you have one. But we have been lied to. i've known about them...for a while now. I didn't ever believe it, but then one of my friends who was one picked a very odd facebook profile picture...a vellocciraptor. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 06/26/11 06:43 PM
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its another stereotype, that christians believe in being good 'merely' because 'you'r told to by God' Actually, the most common argument I hear from any religious is that without God there would be no morality. My counter-argument is that I do not need God to tell me how to treat other people. Why? My response to your statement: I doubt most people could explain to you why they feel some things are 'good' and others 'bad', let alone pinpoint one exclusive contributing factor Scientists have explained this actually. Its a behavior that's been programmed into us since before the first established civilizations. This "right" and "wrong" defines us as social beings and what we consider bad (attacking/killing others, stealing, etc--in otherwords, things that aren't mutually beneficial) gives the species as a whole the best chance of survival. Look into "(progressive) social evolution". its not much different than determining legal vs illegal, its a standard that comes in large part from external factors and how the environment/culture defines it,,,,,again, with or without religion You are right, culture defines laws ... however, I am still right because the counter-argument is that since the greater majority of people are religious, or at least claim to be (only 16% of this country is atheist), then laws are generally reflective of the most prominent religion. Proof? No one here can deny that anti-gay marriage laws are based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Abortion legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Anti-Stem Cell Research legislation is based SOLELY on religious views. Even the simple inability to buy liquor on Sunday in some areas on the country are based SOLELY on religious views. Sorry. scientists have discovered its 'programmed' into us? what does that explain exactly? programmed WHERE and by WHOM, is programmed the same as 'genetic' or does it go back to environment and survival? 'scientists' have also found things like the "God gene" and the 'Gay gene' but no conclusive proof that determines if the presence of said genes are causal or merely correlational. Which brings me back to , noone, even SCIENTISTS Being able to tell us WHERE or WHY we consider somethings 'bad' and some things 'good' why does one person consider it 'good' to receive, and another 'good' to give, and others feel its good to do both? how are there atheists and agnostics against homosexual lifestyle and abortion, and religious who support those same issues? there is no proof that any belief is SOLELY religious, except, of course, for those who consider the theories of Scientist to be without alternative or flaw..... |
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Jews can convert from any lineage and they have throughout history. You can't 'convert' from your family lineage. That is your bloodline, your genes. lin·e·age [lin-ee-ij] Show IPA –noun 1. lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or extraction: She could trace her lineage to the early Pilgrims. 2. the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race Most Jews, Muslims and Christians do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible anyway. In fact, Jews require that the Bible be interpreted... Really? Most of what I hear from those who call themselves "true believers" is that the Bible is the infallible word of God. I guess all literature has to be interpreted to some extent, even by "true believers." Yah...The jewish books you misrepresented earlier are basically interpretations of jewish rabbis on how to understand the various philosophies introduced in the Bible. The Bible is full of all kinds of gibberish and self-contradictory passages. That does not make it lies. It just makes it a story to be explained and studied. Many people believe that this is part of what makes it valuable. The Talmud and the Mishna are discussed here: http://www.jewfaq.org These books are filled with jewish interpretations. Muslims and Christians also spend a lot of time discussing the meaning and teachings of the Quran and scripture. And anyone can convert to any of these religions regardless of race or ethnicity. Do you think Sammy Davis Jr. was any less of a Jew because he converted? Jews don't think so. Do you think that Muslims think that Cat Stevens is any less of a Muslim because he converted? Muslims don't think so. Do you think that Christians think that Bobby Jindal is any less of a Christian because he converted? Christians don't think so.  Of course not. Being part of a religion is about how you lead your life according to the precepts of the religion not about whether you are Hindu, Black, American Indian, Caucasian or Chinese! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 06/26/11 07:14 PM
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Slohand1 I am not talking about "religious conversions."
Lineage has to do with ancestors, family etc. Get that strait at least. A lot of Christians believe that Jews are decedents of "Abraham." I am saying that I don't think Abraham ever actually existed. That is the whole of the story. So, discover the decedents of the Jewish people (all of them if you want) and see if you can trace any of them back to Abraham. Better yet, provide archaeological proof of Abraham confirmed by historian and unbiased scientists with no religious agenda. Also an accurate history of the creation of Judaism would be in order. Other than that, there is nothing more to discuss. |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Sun 06/26/11 08:11 PM
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Slohand1 I am not talking about "religious conversions." Lineage has to do with ancestors, family etc. Get that strait at least. A lot of Christians believe that Jews are decedents of "Abraham." I am saying that I don't think Abraham ever actually existed. That is the whole of the story. So, discover the decedents of the Jewish people (all of them if you want) and see if you can trace any of them back to Abraham. Better yet, provide archaeological proof of Abraham confirmed by historian and unbiased scientists with no religious agenda. Also an accurate history of the creation of Judaism would be in order. Other than that, there is nothing more to discuss. Well you have no proof that Abraham never existed either! But whether he existed or not is completely immaterial. Jews are his ideological descendant. They believe as he believed in the Bible. They observe Judaism. Your genetic obsession is silly and irrelevant. Maybe some Jews are descendants of Abraham. Maybe some Muslims and Christians too. Maybe others. Who cares? Jews don't care, Muslims don't care, Christians don't care. Like I point out there have been millions of conversions throughout history. None of these religions depends in any significant way at all on who begot who or who is descended from who...who has black curly hair or who is a redhead. It's silly!! The creation and history of the jews is one of the best documented stories throughout human history. There are no big mysteries there really. Read about it in a legitimate history book. Read about it in the Encyclopedia Britannica. Here is a good jewish history reference book: http://www.amazon.com/History-Jewish-Experience-Eternal-People/dp/0874416728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1309142236&sr=1-1 Or read online here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 06/26/11 09:01 PM
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Well you have no proof that Abraham never existed either! I don't need proof that someone or something never existed if there is no proof it ever did. Nobody can be a decedent of Abraham if he did not exist. Ideological or otherwise. Abraham could not have had any "beliefs" if he did not exist. People should not assume he existed if there is no credible proof or evidence that he did. The claims of the Biblical stories of Abraham, have people today who still believe that the "Jews" are God's "chosen" people. I checked your "Jewish" history book link and checked the glossery and there was absolutely nothing there about the Talmud or the Khazars. Clearly they are leaving some stuff out if they aren't even going to mention those things. |
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Also know that many of the writers and directors are themselves atheists who still understand that no matter how technology progresses and how much understanding humanity has of the universe, religion will still exist in pretty much the form it exists now. There's really no reason to believe that religion will remain pretty much in the form it exist now. Religion has been changing fairly rapidly over that past few hundred years (losing it's authoritarian power). In fact, over the last 100 years it's basically lost all authoritarian power completely. The political authority of the churches is pretty much non-existent, today. It only exists today via whatever "support" religious fundamentalists can squeak out of their remaining followers. The fastest-growing "religion" today has been dubbed "Designer Christianity", or "Salad Bar Christianity" or "A Personal Walk with Jesus". Basically what has happened on a really LARGE SCALE is that people having been starting to reject the authority of churches and choosing to just having a "Personal Walk with God". So they aren't supporting the organized churches like they used to. Support for Churches has dwindled dramatically. Local people are still willing to continue to support their local "hometown churches" in terms of charities and supporting positive and constructive local activities that benefit the community directly. But very few people are prepared to support larger religious organizations as a whole. So religion is undergoing a major change quite rapidly actually. Yes, as far as the entertainment industry is concerned religious themes will always remain. Even atheists enjoy watching fiction that's based on religious themes. They think religion is fiction anyway so why not make it into movie? That makes more sense anyway. |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Mon 06/27/11 07:16 AM
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Well you have no proof that Abraham never existed either! I don't need proof that someone or something never existed if there is no proof it ever did. Nobody can be a decedent of Abraham if he did not exist. Ideological or otherwise. Abraham could not have had any "beliefs" if he did not exist. People should not assume he existed if there is no credible proof or evidence that he did. The claims of the Biblical stories of Abraham, have people today who still believe that the "Jews" are God's "chosen" people. I checked your "Jewish" history book link and checked the glossery and there was absolutely nothing there about the Talmud or the Khazars. Clearly they are leaving some stuff out if they aren't even going to mention those things. You need to read a LOT more than the glossary!! You have a LOT to learn!! There is tons of legitimate stuff published about the Talmud. Just a sec.... Here you are - from a previous link I had given you which you apparently ignored. http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm#Talmud Now about the Khazars. They may not be explicitly mentioned because they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of so many Jewish conversions throughout the world. But I am sure that European Jewry and their history is discussed in the book. Like I have said many times, nobody cares if someone converts to Christianity, Judaism or Islam or Hinduism. The converts are generally welcomed as a member of the ideological family and that is that. Done. Finito. So nobody really takes a great deal of care in documenting who converted from where and Christian Khazars are just the same as Christian Venezuelans for example. The only people who focus on the Khazars who converted to Judaism are the white supremacist nutballs who attempt to falsely imply that because some Jews converted instead of being directly descended biologically from earlier Jews that they are somehow less. But since in the end, everybody is a convert this is just a RIDICULOUS and ABSURD point of view used to justify an antisemitic outlook! For more Jewish history during all time periods begin by reading the Wiki article or some other encyclopedia. (although they cite sources like the Trepp book) They have extensive sections on Jews in Europe and Russia and everywhere else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history or read about it in the Jewish Virtual Library... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/history.html  These religions did not exist at the Big Bang! Think about it....every person who follows a religion is a convert at some point or another - or their parents are... THINK!?! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 06/27/11 07:55 AM
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If one has reason to believe that history is a lie, one does not go to the same country that wrote it to learn the truth.
I suspect that most popular history is wrong, and 95% of what we think is true is not true at all. I suspect the Bible is 85% wrong, most being fiction designed around a few plagiarized myths and some real facts and places thrown in to convince people. I'm being generous with the 85%. But that's just me, you can believe whatever you want. |
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