Yes to us you are wrong, but we aren't telling you you can't believe it, or that if you don't you will die or anything like that. We cannot take that right from you as much as you can't take the right from us to believe the opposite.

No, here's the difference between Christianity and some of the others, particularly things like atheism and buddhism.

In other non religious systems, nowhere are you told that if you don't believe as they believe, you won't be saved, or that God is gonna send you to Hell, or any variation therein. They will tell you what they believe, and whether you believe it or not, what you take from it, that's up to you, and they by and large will understand that.

It's not quite the same thing in Christianity, because you HAVE to be right, and you can't be right and have others believing what they want too. So if one tries to go against you, they're wrong by default, and they have to come back to the "truth". They are given little choice. I felt this from my own family when I left Catholicism, they drove me away from them for simply making a choice.

If you wanna tell people what you believe, do that, I have no issue with that. But when you start to get on people who think different from you, and start to forcably try and convert them, that's going too far. Like what if you had a kid, who decided he didn't believe in your version of God? Could you handle that, or would you cast him out for it?

Excuse me young man! Have I told anyone here what to believe?

I'm not saying you personally have, but a good deal of Christians do.

You know I just don't get these people either. I just spent a week of my time telling them how they can study and find out if this is true or not and as soon as I turn my back they are back to bashing (in the name of love). I'm afraid they are losing credibility with me bigtime.

If people haven't studied it, it's just wind and anger. Now I'm kinda hoping more Christians come up here than they can count and give them a big kiss right on the lips.

take care bro

You know I just don't get these people either. I just spent a week of my time telling them how they can study and find out if this is true or not and as soon as I turn my back they are back to bashing (in the name of love). I'm afraid they are losing credibility with me bigtime.

If people haven't studied it, it's just wind and anger. Now I'm kinda hoping more Christians come up here than they can count and give them a big kiss right on the lips.

take care bro

I just spent a week of my time telling them how they can study and find out if this is true or not and as soon as I turn my back they are back to bashing (in the name of love).

I'm afraid they are losing credibility with me bigtime.

Um ... Ok ...

People that don't believe in the Bible have been saying this for decades.

Have yet to see anyone prove anything false in the Bible.

Actually, I have a few stories of people that went out to prove it false and ended up being Christian in the process.

Where are the people and evidence you suggest exists????

You made a wild claim that Abraham WILL be proven to be a fictional character. No evidence, just a BELIEF that will be true at some random point in the future.

mg wrote:

You know I just don't get these people either. I just spent a week of my time telling them how they can study and find out if this is true or not and as soon as I turn my back they are back to bashing (in the name of love). I'm afraid they are losing credibility with me bigtime.

If people haven't studied it, it's just wind and anger. Now I'm kinda hoping more Christians come up here than they can count and give them a big kiss right on the lips.

take care bro

huh. so you don't get these people who try to prove the bible false, can't be done btw, and you just spent a whole week of your time telling people how they can find for themselves if the bible is "true or not" which likewise cannot be proved. absurd. have you studied every possiblility offered for how the universe began as deeply as you've studied genesis? have you studied the koran to the extent that you've studied the bible to find what's true and what's not? do you know pele as the hawaiians who believe in him do as well as you know your god? of course you don't because like everybody else on the planet you only have so much time to devote to things you care about finding out about.

people i don't get are people like you who think that learning can come only from sources that you've learned from, that you find credible. if you're happy with the answers that you've found in the bible, great, but i've found the bible highly incredible so i choose to spend my time looking for answers where i think they might be found and that does not include spending a week with you learning how and what i can study. hell, i'd pay good money for a week with neal tyson or stephen hawking to get further insight on how they've studied theoretical physics. care to join me or will you remain among a group of people I DON'T GET???

A benign tumor is not a harmless thing, and a seemingly benign opinion may be the one that causes the most harm.

For example, we often ask for tolerance of certain behaviors and we think that through tolerance we have found civility.

But why do we ask for tolerance instead of acceptance.
When would tolerance be more beneficial than acceptance?
In what cases would tolerance and acceptance be expected to have a reciprocal exchange?

MG – people study in different ways. Would you have them study to gain tolerance or acceptance?

I studied the bible through history, archeology & anthropological research, through the views of more Christian doctrines than I can remember to even name. From the age of 12 I was no longer studying for belief, I was studying to gain understanding.

My greatest understandings have come through studies of philosophies and science.



Your beliefs, your views, partially stem from your way studying which is not the way everyone studies.




Is that due to a lack of tolerance or a lack of acceptance?

Is it possible that the choice of tolerance or acceptance by an individual, in most cases, has to do with how strongly a fundamental belief is embodied in that individual?

I can certainly accept that there are many beliefs and that the beliefs of any individual should be respected and whenever possible we should make sure that person is provided the liberty to behave in accordance with their own belief. Notice the singularity, what a person believes about the mystical forces of the universe are strictly subjective and can only be a belief of one.

I am tolerant of those who would not reciprocate my gesture of acceptance while imposeing their beliefs into the bigger picture in which I and everyone else live and function. I am tolerant because I hold back from wishing or causing such individuals harm. That doesn’t mean I would allow those individual to continue without intervention, to impose their individual religious beliefs on others with discrimination.

What do you all think about questions of tolerance and acceptance?

Truth

I value truth above all things and I am willing to put my feelings on the back burner and suspend my own belief in order to let the truth be realized.

All religions that depend on the truth concerning the Bible stories of Abraham, as I have said, do have the same common interest to keep the truth hidden. But it is the truth of the origins of the Jewish people that will eventually unravel the entire lie that supports all of the Abrahamic religions.

Credibility should not involve holding on to unproven beliefs.(belief in unproven information) In order to find the truth one has to consider the possibility that their unproven belief(about the information) might wrong. You cannot cling to unproven beliefs or attach personal belief to unproven information and call that "credible."

You can still believe in God without attaching your belief to false information. You can still practice love and acceptance for people without agreeing with the particular false information they have attached to their personal belief.

People are so mired in their own personal and emotional religious notions and beliefs and so dependent and entangled into the false information that has be foisted upon them that they cannot think rationally or clearly about the truth.

Only an atheist stands out from the crowd as someone who thinks rationally and clearly. Red knows that "tolerance" is not acceptance.

I accept that people lie for their own agendas. I accept that people will reject the truth and persecute the people who seek it because in finding the truth, the lies are exposed.

If the Bible is true then stop defending it as if it needed defended. The truth shall always prevail. You will not lose God if you find the truth. You need not lose faith if you find the truth. You will only lose the lie. That can only be a good thing.

The truth about the true lineage and history of the Jewish people will unravel all the Abrahamic religions. The Christian churches, all based on this lie, have a vested interest in keeping the truth hidden.

P.S.
Don't be afraid of the truth. Take the red pill.

As far as I'm concerned the Bible has already been proven to be false beyond any shadow of a doubt in a myriad of ways.

We already know that death, disease, and thorns on plants existed long before mankind ever showed up on this planet. That flies directly in the face of the biblical claim that mankind's supposed "fall from grace" is responsible for these things.

So yes, it's already been proven to a false mythology. The world is naturally dog-eat-dog and has been long before humans ever came onto the scene. The Bible is a lie.

I'm also personally convinced that the biblical stories themselves shoot themselves in their own foot far too many times to be a credible story. The stories themselves are often so utterly absurd and contradictory of what this God's character is supposed to be like that there can be no doubt whatsoever that these are nothing more than man-made myths. Not even very well thought-out in many cases, IMHO.

I dismiss the Biblical fables completely without the slightest question that I might have come to the wrong conclusion.

Moreover, the very idea that some supposedly all-wise, all-benevolent God would actually frown upon my dismissal of these fables is even more absurd.

Knowing what I know, I'm certain that any supposedly all-wise, and all-benevolent God would actually expect me to reject these absurdities based on my current knowledge and life's experience.

Finally, I also KNOW without any shadow of a doubt, that my rejection of these utterly insane and absurd fables, has absolutely nothing to do with a decision to "reject" God, or reject all that is good and wholesome.

On the contrary, as far as I'm concerned I have some of the most wholesome moral values and ideals that I can imagine. I also totally support everything that is good and 'holy' or 'divine'.

The crude and ignorant fables of the ancient Hebrews simply don't fall under that umbrella. Those fables are filled with religious bigotry, violence, hatred toward non-believers of their religion, and they even have their God supporting their male-chauvinistic attitude toward their women.

Just look at some of the Arab countries to see how those ancient fables have men treating their women!

It's disgusting and there is nothing divine about it.

The biblical fables of Yahweh have absolutely no more merit than the Greek fables of Zeus.

In order for the religion to be true this God would need to condemn me to hell for blaspheme against "His Holy Word". Yet I am a decent highly moral and extremely honest and sincere person.

So in order for this religion to be true, this God would necessarily need to be totally unrighteous and hideous. This is the mistake that the Hebrews wrote into their myths.

You can't have a God who condemns people for merely disbelieving in it. That can't work.

There mere fact that these fables make those sorts of claims shows that they are nothing more than the lies of mortal men to begin with.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's proven to be false in very possible way.

I truly saddened by the fact that so many people continue to support it as though is has some sort of merit.

That's my sincere and honest view.

mg wrote in response to Jeanniebean

I pray you'll be blessed with love

Peace and love to you