Two veteran friends of mine will be on one of the ships planning to leave Athens next week to challenge the Israeli sea blockade of Gaza. The Israeli government, after attacking a previous flotilla in May 2010 and killing nine people, has said it will use violence if necessary to prevent the ships from entering what any reasonable person by now should agree are Palestinian waters.

This confrontation should not be necessary. The Israeli military occupation over Palestinian life should have been eased and sovereign rights established for Palestinians long ago. The crisis of Palestinian status has reached the level of a disaster, and like the creation of Israel itself it is more than a Jewish problem: It is a world problem.

The flotilla as an act of civil disobedience is occurring at a time Israel/Palestine peace talks are dead in the water and the fledgling coalition of Fatah and Hamas is planning in September to seek recognition of Palestine as a sovereign state from the UN General Assembly, the very same body that recognized Israel in 1947. The US doesn’t want this to happen because, if the past is a guide, it will feel it has to reject the Palestinian request. Since the US is only one of many equal votes in the General Assembly -- versus the Security Council where its veto rules -- a US vote supporting Israeli intransigence will do nothing but be galling for much of the world.

At a time when people in the Middle East and North Africa are in the streets seeking new governing relationships and United States citizens of both parties are becoming fed up with foreign wars, the Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman is acting like a dangerous, petulant child covering its eyes to make the real world go away.

Why does this matter? Why should ordinary Americans care about this? Why not just let the Israelis continue along the same belligerent path they have established over the past decades? The reason is simple: What Israel does or doesn’t do affects our lives here in the United States. Our tax dollars finance their military. And, most important, tiny Israel can drag this huge nation into a major world conflagration it does not want...

For the rest of this article by JOHN GRANT in ThisCantBeHappening!, the new independent online alternative newspaper now beginning it’s second year of daily publication, please go to: http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/662

poor Israeli's...surrounded by all that filth... they should just sink every boat that comes around them...

Not again!

It's a stupid and pointless publicity stunt. Israel cannot allow
open access to Gaza ports because they justifiably fear weapons
smuggling and increased terrorist attacks.

Humanitarian aid is already available through known channels which
preclude arms deliveries.

If people want to deliver aid then all they have to do it to use
the inspected channels. But aid is not the point. Conflict is.

The "Audacity of Hoping for Conflict" boat is just a political ploy
having nothing to do with anything humanitarian.

The ships will be redirected to a neutral port, the cargo
inspected and redirected through approved channels all a gigantic
waste of time and energy which could be instead put to a more
productive use.

Oh well. This is from the press release:

"The U.S. says those participating may face arrest, prosecution and
deportation. Israeli authorities say they will seek to ban anyone
attempting to break the blockade from traveling to Israel for 10
years."

And this is from "Animal House"



Bluto's right. Psychotic...but absolutely right.
We got to take these bastards.

We could fight them with conventional weapons.
That could take years...cost millions of lives.

In this case...I think we have to go all out.

I think this situation absolutely requires...a really futile and stupid gesture...be done on somebody's part.

We're just the guys to do it.



You're right though.
This confrontation is completely unnecessary.

I personaly would like to see a ten year ban on US aid to israel.

This country is broke and I cant help but wonder why we support them.

the Pollard spy case should have been enough for us to learn what they do with our Tax money.

Of Course you would like that!!

You falsely accused Israel of being Apartheid and Fascist in your original thread! You even suggested that on 911 the buildings were
not brought down by Al-Qaida!



http://mingle2.com/topic/show/305115



But as I pointed out, Israel is not Apartheid.
There is more segregation in Memphis and Oakland!

And, Israel is not Fascist either.

They have free elections, a wide variety of political parties,
religious tolerance and a very open society.

The situation is far worse as far as human rights goes in
Lebanon, Syria, Hamastan, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Iraq, the UAE, Saudi Arabia...Qatar...

In short, Israel is the only country in the region which
is deserving of aid considering the positive example they
set for all their citizens and surrounding countries.

And, Israel needs our support the most because many terrorist neighbors are trying to destroy this tiny country precisely
because of their religious tolerance and freedoms.

SUPPORT FREEDOM and Castigate Terrorism and Tyranny by
supporting Israel's efforts to achieve a true and lasting
peace. Tell the terrorists to put down their bomb vests,
accept a free Israel and live in peace.

Every peace loving person must certainly wish to avoid huge
shipments of arms from being sent to Gaza - like the shipment
recently intercepted by Israel on the Victoria!



An Israeli soldier holds a 120mm mortar shell seized from the Victoria cargo ship that was intercepted by Israel in the Mediterranean Sea on Tuesday, in the port of Ashdod, Israel, Wednesday, March 16, 2011. Israeli officials displayed thousands of bullets, mortar shells and anti-ship missiles on Wednesday that they seized from a cargo ship delivering the arms to Palestinian militants in Gaza. (Ariel Schalit, Associated Press)

http://realisraelblog.com/2011/03/16/arms-shipment-to-hamas-run-gaza-intercepted-by-israeli-navy-2/

If you and others go there on a boat to try to make such shipments
of arms possible then you are at best terrorist tools.

If you try to confront/resist the Israelis with force then you are
simply and ironically fomenting the very bigoted religious violence
you purport to abhor. Pointless!

What a crock!

i would personally like to see a ten year ban on you not being a jew hater... that would be way more beneficial...

To be fair, I don't think BestinShow ever said he had anything
against Jews and he did not say that he believed in the fake
antisemitic conspiracy theory - The Protocols of the Elders of
Zion...

You do agree that this was Nazi propaganda and is a completely
false antisemitic document don't you BestinShow?

But it is strange in the extreme that he would rail so sincerely
against tiny democratic Israel and seem to ignore the far more
egregious human rights failures of the Palestinians, Iranians,
Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis and what have you.

It is very backward that he would try to help make arms shipments
possible to Gaza and spend his time doing that rather than to
actually get involved in advocating a cessation of terrorism or
by helping bring in food, energy and water through the open Israeli
and U.N. channels.

It is weird that he should not be able to grasp the overwhelming
evidence that Al-Qaida was behind the leveling of the WTC towers.

And he may not understand what a small amount of aid is actually
involved numerically in a multi-trillion dollar annual budget.

But that only makes him misguided...not necessarily antisemitic.

maybe, but spreading this kind of filth seems to be the same thing in my opinion... it seems to me he feels it is all the jews fault, and no one elses... that is the same way as hitler started his way of thinking...

I have to admit it is exceedingly strange to try to assist a
well-known terrorist group like Hamas, an organization whose
ideologies are just bulging at the seams with antisemitic jew
hatred. An political movement which actually openly and publicly
rejoices and promotes the purposeful killing of innocent people
en masse with bus and cafe bombings, teaching children hateful
anti-Jewish stereotypes in their schools, fires rocket attacks
indiscriminately into population centers at night. Plus Hamas
launches their attacks from schools and hospitals using their
own innocent civilians as unwilling human shields!

There is no reason to support such behavior. These are war crimes
not freedom fighting. Crimes so revolting they are repudiated in
warfare for crying out loud.

Yet the attempt to help Hamas circumvent weapons inspections is
aimed at helping them get easy access to heavy assault weapons.



And all they would have to do to have a durable and lasting peace
while rebuilding their country would be to accept the enduring
presence of Israel as a jewish state and put down their arms and
stop attacking Israel. That's it. The Palestinians are already
governing Gaza and the West Bank - and as long as they promise to
respect Israel's sovereignty and not to mount an army and import
weapons then Israel could not object and has even said that they
would be OK with that. Then everyone could live in peace.

But Hamas and Hezbollah and Syria and Iran do not want that. This
shows so clearly that the central dispute is NOT about land.

They were given back the Gaza strip....This did not bring peace.
They were given back autonomy in the West Bank. This did not
bring peace. No, the problem is not land at its core. The problem
is the acceptance of Israel as a jewish state.

If people want to ensure a durable and lasting peace in the
Middle East then they have to take the same stance that the U.S.
and Israel both advocate. Acceptance of Israel as one tiny jewish
state amid a world full of gargantuan Islamic states and no more
weapons in the hands of terrorists like Hamas, Hezbollah and
Al Qaida.

Unfortunately after Al Qaida has attacked the U.S. and Madrid and
London and Bali and Baghdad and Khost and Denmark and Yemen etc...
The whole world has tasted the cruel inhuman bitterness of
religious hatred again and they have stiffened their resolve to
combat terrorism and have come to better understand the kind
of oppression the Israelis have struggled with.

It certainly has been a motivating factor for me to be more
vocal in opposing such unconscionable behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks

So I say the Israelis are right. Terrorists put down your arms
and hateful ideologies and commit to live in peace. No respectable
country will support your efforts to gain weapons and kill
innocent civilians. I am just weird like that.



There is no political grievance which justifies bus bombings and
rocket attacks on cities. Period.

Support the religious tolerance in Israel and help them live
free from unwarranted terrorist attacks.

I view Israel as I would any other nation and forget they are jewish. I have jewish friends who despise what is going on in Gaza.

Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear non proliferation treaty.

Our support for israel at this point is a massive hypocracy, after all we invaded a country over wmds didnt we?

I once blindly belived that after what the jewish people suffred in ww2 they of all people would stand for justice.


They treat the Palastinians as the Europeans treated them in WW2

Same twisted propaganda the nazis used.

It shames me to think my tax dollars support that state.

We support them at the tune of 3 billion a year.

I am sure my state could hire alot of teachers for that kind of money.

Verry interesting......

Even excluding all of these extra costs, America’s $84.8 billion in aid to Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31, 1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.

It would be interesting to know how many of those American taxpayers believe they and their families have received as much from the U.S. Treasury as has everyone who has chosen to become a citizen of Israel. But it’s a question that will never occur to the American public because, so long as America’s mainstream media, Congress and president maintain their pact of silence, few Americans will ever know the true cost of Israel to U.S. taxpayers.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/cost_of_israel.html

from 1949 through 1998 - - that's 50 years!!-

That's about $2 billion/year...

or 0.058% of our current $3.456 trillion dollar budget.



The U.S. spends nearly 25 times more $50 billion a year in earmarks!

For example,

President Obama's Fiscal Year 2010 budget proposes $53.8 billion for appropriated international affairs' programs.

so the roughly $2B/yr is about 4% of the intl affairs budget.

Maybe math isn't your strong point.

You need to keep it in perspective.




So I say the Israelis are right. Terrorists put down your arms
and hateful ideologies and commit to live in peace. No respectable
country will support your efforts to gain weapons and kill
innocent civilians. I am just weird like that.



There is no political grievance which justifies bus bombings and
rocket attacks on cities. Period.

Support the religious tolerance in Israel and help them live
free from unwarranted terrorist attacks.

Stop trying to help Hamas get access to arms shipments!

Support Israel with 4% of our international affairs budget
and help them fight terrorists and support peace!

SAY for example that amount were to go to Michigan for retraining workers or retooling industry, it would go a long long ways.

Instead it went to Israel were they used it to develope atomic bombs in violation of the non profliferation treaty, oh wait Israel is one of the few countries that has not signed it.


I cant help but wonder why america has had to support that country for fifty years, my god cant they take care of themselves?

They are like a nation of welfare queens.

Instead of Cadilacs they have F 15 fighters and cluster bombs and napalm they use on Gaza.

People who defend Israel are only fooling themselves any person that chooses to inform themselves will see that the situation is not as it appears in the mainstream media.

I would recomend viewing this short Vid by Noam Chomsky.

Noam Chomsky is a professor of Linguistics at MIT and has a way with words.

"While he admits to no surprise about events in Gaza, Noam Chomsky does consider “the latest U.S.-Israeli attack on helpless Palestinians” a step beyond terrorism and aggression. He says “some new term is needed for the sadistic and cowardly torture of people caged with no possibility of escape, being pounded daily by the most sophisticated products of U.S. military technology.”

Chomsky says these “new crimes” don’t fit easily into any standard category except for “familiarity,” and his talk recaps the history of Israeli relations with Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere. He notes that while many are engaged in “sober debate on what the attackers hope to achieve,” he doesn’t find Israeli motives at all “obscure.” Chomsky says “rational Israeli hard-liners” decided it was senseless to subsidize the illegal Israeli settlement of Gaza in 2005, which would have required significant resources. Instead, they decided to back settlement of the West Bank, a more valuable territory, with its arable land and water supplies. The intent of this criminal annexation is “a vastly expanded Jerusalem.” Says Chomsky, “It made more sense to turn Gaza into the world’s largest prison, and let people rot.”

vid here
http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/645

Maybe we should give North America back to the indians.

I see no reason to support Israel. Let them fight their own battles.
Bring our troops home and out of the Middle east.
Do not send our money to Israel.
We don't owe them anything.

In fact they owe us and as repayment we get the Polard spy case and the gaza aid flotila massacre.

These are strange times.

Well seeing as you have stated in the other thread that you
believe in a crazy anti-Zionist anti-Jewish conspiracy theory
widely popularized by the Nazis then I think we can discount
your "lack of support" of Israel as an irrational paranoid
pipedream...



http://mingle2.com/topic/show/304030?page=12

Strange times indeed when you aid Hamas terrorists and try
to not aid peaceful Israelis.

Israel's budget is about $68 billion annually. So our aid is
about 1.5% of of it. Not totally insignificant of course.
I join with president Obama in supporting it. But it is still
only 1.5% of the budget. Israel certainly is deserving of our
assistance but they hardly require it.

And here is a picture of your Welfare Queens...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis

Anti-Zionism is not a conspiracy theory. There are many Jewish groups who are anti-zionist.

Seeing as you are a defender and supporter of Zionism, I can't take anything you say as anything but biased.

What are you quoteing here? this is the second time you bring something up off topic that I have had nothing to do with.

Again what do we get from Israel besides the hate of the entire Arab world?

We get the Pollard spy case

For instance, when asked to return the stolen material, the Israelis handed over a few dozen lowly classified documents.[25] At the time, the Americans knew that Pollard had passed tens of thousands of documents, possibly over a million.[citation needed] The Israelis created a schedule designed to wear down the Americans, including many hours per day of commuting in blacked out buses on rough roads, and frequent switching of buses.[25] This left the Americans without adequate time to sleep and prevented them from sleeping on the commute.[25] The identity of Pollard's original handler, Sella, was withheld. All questions had to be translated into Hebrew and answered in Hebrew, and then translated back into English, even though all the parties spoke perfect English.[25] The Americans were treated with hostility from the moment they arrived in Israel to the moment they left.[25] Commander Jerry Agee remembers that, even as he departed the airport, airport security made a point of informing him that "you will never be coming back here again"; Agee found various items had been stolen from his luggage, upon his return to the United States.[25] The abuse came not only from the guards and officials, but also the Israeli media.[25]

Aviem Sella, Pollard's initial Israeli contact, was eventually indicted on three counts of espionage by an American court.[26] Israel refused to allow him to be interviewed unless he was granted immunity. America refused because of Israel's previous failure to cooperate as promised. Israel then refused to extradite Sella, instead giving him command of a prestigious air force base. The U.S. Congress responded by threatening to cut aid to Israel, at which point Sella stepped down.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

Or

The Five Dancing Israelis
Arrested On 9-11

White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9)

When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!
According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:


"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10)

Why did he feel Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html


I think its time to cut the embilical cord and let this baby go its on way.

Keep our money at home to retro fit our economy and help americans.

Americans that actualy love their country and wont betray it.

The 5 non-dancing Israelis who were filming the WTC tower attacks
along with the rest of the world media and Pollard are your reasons
for supporting terrorist attacks by Hamas on innocent civilians?



I don't think that there would ever be any reason to support Hamas
terrorist war crimes by trying to help them get unlimited access
to un-inspected shipments by sea.



Probably since they just witnessed a massive terrorist attack on the
WTC towers - the Israelis (who have seen a few terrorist attacks)
probably thought that Palestinians like Hamas or Hezbollah who
refer to the U.S. as the "Great Satan" might have been responsible
for the attack.

Of course this turned out to be true. Although it was not Hamas or
Hezbollah it was another radical Islamic organization - al-Qaida.

Although you irrationally dispute that al-Qaida was responsible for
the World Trade Center attacks on 911 - it is really very obvious.
Al-Qaida and Bin Laden really did it!

http://mingle2.com/topic/show/305115?page=5

The Israelis were not surprised of course since they have been under
attack by similar terrorists for 60 years!!

Shazam! Must be clairvoyance!