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| Topic: Rise of atheism. | |
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As long as there is strict separation of church and state it's fine. She's considering the contrary. Basically what she's saying is what theists spew time and time again "God is trust" is on our money, prayer is in every way synonymous with government breaking the first amendment. Prayer in every way is redundant because it doesn't help anyone out to begin with, people helping each other out works more than being on your knees praying to something that you believe already have a plan for you (kind of defeats the point of fate). |
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its a huge assumption that prayer helps noone. its also not really relevant.
memorializing the dead (memorial day), 'helps' about as much as prayer does celebrating american independence (independence day) helps as much as prayer does we have plenty of holidays that are to commemorate or celebrate things which may or may not 'help' anyone there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... |
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Prayer=holidays?
Not. Belief that "you" can overcome is the reason people do well. It is not that an invisible being is going to do it for them. You do not need a god to believe in yourself. |
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Prayer=holidays? Not. Belief that "you" can overcome is the reason people do well. It is not that an invisible being is going to do it for them. You do not need a god to believe in yourself. whatever the reason,, if we believe it , it often happens the way we believe whether we believe we did it alone or some 'invisible' being helped us,,, |
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Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Fri 07/22/11 12:37 PM
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them .....  Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. I dont. Im only humoring your suggestion that it might be. Open minds,, remember? there is also no proof that prayer doesnt(as in never) works when directd for someone else..... |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol |
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Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Fri 07/22/11 02:01 PM
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. 
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, No, how bout their be no prayer or meditation day. Sounds good to me. You have plenty of churches for that. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 07/22/11 04:35 PM
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, No, how bout their be no prayer or meditation day. Sounds good to me. You have plenty of churches for that. wow, ur devoted so you dont even want meditation endorsed? ,, ok, how about get rid of all the holidays dont ENDORSE the pilgrims, dont ENDORSE the death of soldiers, dont ENDORSE the independence of (some) americans its all good, so long as we make sure that we erase GOD or religion from any type of government aknowledgeement(by the way, the 1st amendment taken literally applied to CONGRESS, not states), it would all be worth it for the sake of 'equality'... ,,,I dont really care about holidays to be truthful, I will celebrate what I want to celebrate the way I wish to celebrate it,,,, it just seems people are OVER sensitive to anything which MIGHT be in the least bit religious,,,,and in doing so they cut off their nose to spite their face... ..just my opinion though I dont celebrate memorial day or columbus day,, because I dont HAVE to what am I told about homosexual marriage? if you dont like it, dont do it,,,,,, if applied equally, it would fit in this situation too however, its a non matter for me really and I understand your position of having it FORCED on ya because it is in some way endorsed because that is how I feel about homosexual marriage ,,,guess this is a stalemate,, get rid of it or dont, at this point I can choose to endorse it personally or not endorse it and thats good enough,,,, |
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Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Fri 07/22/11 04:47 PM
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, No, how bout their be no prayer or meditation day. Sounds good to me. You have plenty of churches for that. wow, ur devoted so you dont even want meditation endorsed? ,, ok, how about get rid of all the holidays dont ENDORSE the pilgrims, dont ENDORSE the death of soldiers, dont ENDORSE the independence of (some) americans its all good, so long as we make sure that we erase GOD or religion from any type of government aknowledgeement(by the way, the 1st amendment taken literally applied to CONGRESS, not states), it would all be worth it for the sake of 'equality'... ,,,I dont really care about holidays to be truthful, I will celebrate what I want to celebrate the way I wish to celebrate it,,,, it just seems people are OVER sensitive to anything which MIGHT be in the least bit religious,,,,and in doing so they cut off their nose to spite their face... ..just my opinion though I dont celebrate memorial day or columbus day,, because I dont HAVE to what am I told about homosexual marriage? if you dont like it, dont do it,,,,,, if applied equally, it would fit in this situation too however, its a non matter for me really and I understand your position of having it FORCED on ya because it is in some way endorsed because that is how I feel about homosexual marriage ,,,guess this is a stalemate,, get rid of it or dont, at this point I can choose to endorse it personally or not endorse it and thats good enough,,,, AHHH, wrong. Prayer serves no purpose, meditation would honestly make no sense to endorse, because meditation is more for self. What you fail to realize, what i'm implying is the government doesn't in the amendment separate themselves from gay-marriage, memorial day (which is to honor people who fought in past wars nothing more nothing less), and as i said before prayer accomplishes nothing. Also, It's about respecting what our founding fathers wrote down for all Americans to abide by, people like the man from Texas is only using prayer as a crutch to gain more followers "because it's so Christian to pray and Christians should stick together in America". Point being prayer, meditation, is very universal you don't NEED a day to recognize it, or NEED the government to endorse it, there's absolutely NO REASON, especially since the first amendment condemns it. It's like giving privileged to one group just because they're bias that what they're doing is the right thing. Nobody has any objection to what you do on your private time, your church or community for that matter - it's only when the government gets involved, i seriously don't see why this isn't a fair trade. Cancer and Aids recognition day actually ACCOMPLISHES something, raises money to prevent and cure it, tell me exactly what does prayer accomplishes that the government needs to endorse it? |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, No, how bout their be no prayer or meditation day. Sounds good to me. You have plenty of churches for that. wow, ur devoted so you dont even want meditation endorsed? ,, ok, how about get rid of all the holidays dont ENDORSE the pilgrims, dont ENDORSE the death of soldiers, dont ENDORSE the independence of (some) americans its all good, so long as we make sure that we erase GOD or religion from any type of government aknowledgeement(by the way, the 1st amendment taken literally applied to CONGRESS, not states), it would all be worth it for the sake of 'equality'... ,,,I dont really care about holidays to be truthful, I will celebrate what I want to celebrate the way I wish to celebrate it,,,, it just seems people are OVER sensitive to anything which MIGHT be in the least bit religious,,,,and in doing so they cut off their nose to spite their face... ..just my opinion though I dont celebrate memorial day or columbus day,, because I dont HAVE to what am I told about homosexual marriage? if you dont like it, dont do it,,,,,, if applied equally, it would fit in this situation too however, its a non matter for me really and I understand your position of having it FORCED on ya because it is in some way endorsed because that is how I feel about homosexual marriage ,,,guess this is a stalemate,, get rid of it or dont, at this point I can choose to endorse it personally or not endorse it and thats good enough,,,, AHHH, wrong. Prayer serves no purpose, meditation would honestly make no sense to endorse, because meditation is more for self. What you fail to realize, what i'm implying is the government doesn't in the amendment separate themselves from gay-marriage, memorial day (which is to honor people who fought in past wars nothing more nothing less), and as i said before prayer accomplishes nothing. Also, It's about respecting what our founding fathers wrote down for all Americans to abide by, people like the man from Texas is only using prayer as a crutch to gain more followers "because it's so Christian to pray and Christians should stick together in America". Point being prayer, meditation, is very universal you don't NEED a day to recognize it, or NEED the government to endorse it, there's absolutely NO REASON, especially since the first amendment condemns it. It's like giving privileged to one group just because they're bias that what they're doing is the right thing. Nobody has any objection to what you do on your private time, your church or community for that matter - it's only when the government gets involved, i seriously don't see why this isn't a fair trade. Cancer and Aids recognition day actually ACCOMPLISHES something, raises money to prevent and cure it, tell me exactly what does prayer accomplishes that the government needs to endorse it? the first amendment doesnt condemn GOVERNMENT, it condemns CONGRESS,,,which is ONE branch of government it condemns from 'passing a law supporting the ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION nor condemning the FREE EXERCISE' a state holiday does neither,,,as it is not a law which involves CONGRESS and it doesnt establish any particular RELIGION ,,and since when do holidays need to ACCOMPLISH something? what does christmas and thanksgiving ACCOMPLISH,,,,? ,,,in any case,,, it truly matters not to me, I just think the points taken are not relevant or accurate I will continue to pray everyday and to NOT celebrate labor day (or whatever other holiday),,,,,as is thankfully my right,,,,and any other us citizens,,, |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. fine, lets petition to call it national meditation day and have it be over with people can all wish well upon others in whatever fashion they choose,,,, as long as the government doesnt mandate anyone invoke God, endorsing ones choice to do so is nothing unconstitutional sometimes atheists take the seperation of church and state a bit too far out of context,,,,, No, how bout their be no prayer or meditation day. Sounds good to me. You have plenty of churches for that. wow, ur devoted so you dont even want meditation endorsed? ,, ok, how about get rid of all the holidays dont ENDORSE the pilgrims, dont ENDORSE the death of soldiers, dont ENDORSE the independence of (some) americans its all good, so long as we make sure that we erase GOD or religion from any type of government aknowledgeement(by the way, the 1st amendment taken literally applied to CONGRESS, not states), it would all be worth it for the sake of 'equality'... ,,,I dont really care about holidays to be truthful, I will celebrate what I want to celebrate the way I wish to celebrate it,,,, it just seems people are OVER sensitive to anything which MIGHT be in the least bit religious,,,,and in doing so they cut off their nose to spite their face... ..just my opinion though I dont celebrate memorial day or columbus day,, because I dont HAVE to what am I told about homosexual marriage? if you dont like it, dont do it,,,,,, if applied equally, it would fit in this situation too however, its a non matter for me really and I understand your position of having it FORCED on ya because it is in some way endorsed because that is how I feel about homosexual marriage ,,,guess this is a stalemate,, get rid of it or dont, at this point I can choose to endorse it personally or not endorse it and thats good enough,,,, AHHH, wrong. Prayer serves no purpose, meditation would honestly make no sense to endorse, because meditation is more for self. What you fail to realize, what i'm implying is the government doesn't in the amendment separate themselves from gay-marriage, memorial day (which is to honor people who fought in past wars nothing more nothing less), and as i said before prayer accomplishes nothing. Also, It's about respecting what our founding fathers wrote down for all Americans to abide by, people like the man from Texas is only using prayer as a crutch to gain more followers "because it's so Christian to pray and Christians should stick together in America". Point being prayer, meditation, is very universal you don't NEED a day to recognize it, or NEED the government to endorse it, there's absolutely NO REASON, especially since the first amendment condemns it. It's like giving privileged to one group just because they're bias that what they're doing is the right thing. Nobody has any objection to what you do on your private time, your church or community for that matter - it's only when the government gets involved, i seriously don't see why this isn't a fair trade. Cancer and Aids recognition day actually ACCOMPLISHES something, raises money to prevent and cure it, tell me exactly what does prayer accomplishes that the government needs to endorse it? the first amendment doesnt condemn GOVERNMENT, it condemns CONGRESS,,,which is ONE branch of government it condemns from 'passing a law supporting the ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION nor condemning the FREE EXERCISE' a state holiday does neither,,,as it is not a law which involves CONGRESS and it doesnt establish any particular RELIGION ,,and since when do holidays need to ACCOMPLISH something? what does christmas and thanksgiving ACCOMPLISH,,,,? ,,,in any case,,, it truly matters not to me, I just think the points taken are not relevant or accurate I will continue to pray everyday and to NOT celebrate labor day (or whatever other holiday),,,,,as is thankfully my right,,,,and any other us citizens,,, "Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), the Supreme Court has held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies the First Amendment to each state, including any local government." " Subsequently, Everson v. Board of Education (1947) incorporated the Establishment Clause (i.e., made it apply against the states). However, it was not until the middle to late twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by the states. In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."[1]" ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution Maybe i'm reading this wrong or been wrong alllll this time. 
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. If you mean by endorse as have it in any government/public/judicial at all, I agree. I do not however want to stop them from being able to have churches and what they do at home is of course their business. |
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there is also plenty of evidence (research 'sugar pills' or 'placebo') that the mind has great impact on health and happiness, so that what people 'believe' actually CAN and does help them ..... Yes, meditating can help you, but prayer doesn't not work when directed for someone else. I'm glad you know prayer is a placebo. It is a nice sentiment though if you are religious to have others pray for you. It isn't so well received if you are not religious though...lol Saying "have a nice day" is a great sentiment also, but when people in their hearts believe praying on their knees instead of standing up as a nation to help one another is more productive is what i don't agree with. If theists what to pray, cool, but the government should under no circumstances endorse it. If you mean by endorse as have it in any government/public/judicial at all, I agree. I do not however want to stop them from being able to have churches and what they do at home is of course their business. Hey, yes i agree. And this is simply all i was saying; the prolong nature of this topic was irrelevant. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Fri 07/22/11 05:24 PM
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Christians can't claim any national holiday as their own anyway.
The early Christians made the mistake of adopting pagan holidays to make their holidays on so technically Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays originally So national holidays are in the clear from religion if we so wanted them to be nationally. Here at Christmas they have decided instead of removing the nativity scene to have all holidays in that time represented on our courthouse steps. So they have Kwanzaa, Jewish and Christian and of course the Christmas Tree which was not a Christmas tree originally represents those who are not religious at all or Pagan. I believe it was a Yule tree but I could be wrong. |
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none of those court cases with issues ranging from FREEDOM OF SPEECH(gitlow) to using TAXPAYER dollars to reimburse certain (religious) citizens for their childrens transportation (everson)to using TAXPAYER dollars to government funding the creation of a RELIGIOUS district (kiryas)
have ANYTHING at all to do with government aknowledging God, or endorsing a holiday taxpayers are not involved in endorsing a holiday, nor their money, and noone is impeded from or forced to practice any religion,,,, |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 07/22/11 05:38 PM
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funny thing is
its all fables until someone actually believes it and then some atheists will jump all over themself to make sure there is no public recognition of the 'fable' in any way,,lol easter bunnies, sure christmas gifts, no problem GOD!! ?? how dare you,,,,lol too much |
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have ANYTHING at all to do with government aknowledging God, or endorsing a holiday  aw you little theist you, you do realize the basis of this topic was about the Texas Governor Rick Perry endorsing religion (prayer), so i guess prayer is not acknowledging God, maybe i'm to tired and reading into this the wrong way. The even is called "The Response", which is a Christian promoted event, he is a Christian so to believe other is just being naive and try to sway away from the obvious in his agenda because you don't wan to it to seem like it's a religious promotion. easter bunnies, sure <----- Nobody in this planet believe it's real except children. christmas gifts, no problem <----- nobody believes in Santa, but children and the few Christian who seriously believe it is the birth of Christ (lack of education on history). GOD!! ?? how dare you,,,,lol <---- Everybody believes in one except rational atheists and newborns. That counter was very flawed, i don't even know what to say about that. none of those court cases with issues ranging from FREEDOM OF SPEECH(gitlow) to using TAXPAYER dollars to reimburse certain (religious) citizens for their childrens transportation (everson)to using TAXPAYER dollars to government funding the creation of a RELIGIOUS district (kiryas) In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."[1]" What part of "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion.", is not sinking in. I tell ya, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I got you though..  |
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