Topic: The Pauline Heresy.
tudoravenger's photo
Tue 10/11/11 12:26 PM
In the dark days after the crucifixion, the disciples huddled within their room, afraid for their very lives. After Yeshua’s appearance, their faith was restored. 40 days later, the spirit of God poured down upon them, giving them the powers of prophecy and healing.

So far, so good.

Their mission was to proclaim the message to the Hebrews, one in which they were faithful. At this time, Peter and James were in charge so to speak.

The disciples, like Yeshua, had no intention of creating a church. To them, men of Jewish faith, such an idea was abhorrent. It was heresy.

“Upon this rock I shall build my church,” was added generations later. Yeshua never said it!

That statement is absolute blasphemy!
Yeshua came to fulfil the law, not to change it.

Then came Paul.

Born Saul, a citizen of Tarsus, he was a Roman citizen. Though he bought this. He was also Jewish, and a Pharisee to boot. This truly evil man had spent some time killing the followers of Yeshua with glee. His hands were stained with the blood of the innocent.
He was blinded by the wrath of God, he did stagger to the home of a Hebrew believer, and he was healed. From this point on however, he made a grab for power.

As Acts claims, he went to the Damascus synagogue and began to preach that Yeshua was the Son of God. Of course, those there recognised him as the bloodthirsty beast who had enjoyed murdering the faithful. How he escaped with his life, I have no idea.
After his escape, he headed for Jerusalem to join the disciples of Yeshua. They did not believe his claims of course until Barnabas spoke up in Saul’s defence. Now, from my viewpoint, Saul and Barnabas had come to a deal. After having so much power as killer of the faithful, he was determined to set up his own religion with himself as absolute leader.

Of course, this would split the faithful and ensure its disappearance among the Hebrew believers. History records this final event.

I suspect gold changed hands and an agreement that Barnabas would be his number 2. This would explain Barnabas extraordinary intervention.
During his stay, he argued with the Greek faithful and again had to flee to Tarsus.

He reappears at Antioch, Syria, with Barnabas in tow, and sailed to Cyprus. While there, they came across a chap called Bar-Yeshua, a Hebrew. This man claimed to be a prophet and was a friend of the governor.

Now Saul and Barnabas regarded this individual as so dangerous to their plan that they cursed him until he was blind. I suspect violence was used to achieve this result. Soon after they headed for Perga, Turkey, where he spoke about God and Yeshua. It was here that he done what was not authorised. He claimed that God had sent him to preach to the Gentiles. He did all this without the sanction of the disciples, therefore without authority from God.

The first schism was well underway, as he had planned all along.
Of course, he and his companion had to flee again.

They arrived in Lystra, as recorded in Acts, where an event took place that confirms my belief.

While there, the locals gave Barnabas the name Zeus, Chief of the Greek God’s and Saul the name Hermes.

As Hebrews, this was rejection of their heritage, and outright blasphemy. If they had truly been speaking the word of God, they would never have accepted such pagan titles. What is further proof of their ungodly behaviour is this. The priest of the Greek Pantheon arranged animal sacrifice in their honour, another incredible act of blasphemy.

This shows clearly that Saul and Barnabas cared nothing about their Hebrew religion and nothing for the emerging Hebrew Christian faith. At that time centred in Jerusalem.

Of course, the local Hebrews were enraged by their behaviour and had them stoned, a punishment decreed by God through Moses.
Unfortunately, they survived.

When he and Barnabas returned to Antioch, they reported the Gentile conversion but hid their act of blasphemy. Had they been honest men, the Pauline heresy would have ended there.

Soon after their arrival, a delegation came from Jerusalem. Obviously, the alarming news of Saul’s activity had reached the disciples. The two-man delegation was despatched to sort them out. Lance the boil shall I say.

The delegation demanded that new converts must obey the Law of Moses and be circumcised. Saul and Barnabes show their contempt for the Hebrew faith and Christology by arguing against such an edict.
After the row, they were taken to Jerusalem under some duress. They were again warned by the disciples, that converts must follow the Law of Moses. A compromise was worked out by Peter and James in order to prevent the split getting any worse.

Under this plan, new converts were expected to follow the Law of Moses, eating sacred food and keeping away from sexual immorality. Saul and Barnabas returned to Antioch with the letter. They had won the first round.

A little later Saul wanted to tour the area and Barnabas wanted to take John Mark with him. Saul had other ideas and after a major row, they separated.

Sometime later Saul and Silas were arrested and thrown in prison while visiting Thyatira. Only Saul’s Roman citizenship saved their lives.

Again, while Roman troops were killing the faithful elsewhere, Saul relied on them to save his neck.

While in Athens, Saul again entered pagan shrines, a violation of Moses Law.

After many travels, he returned to Jerusalem and met James once more. At this meeting, he was reminded of his recent activity. Particularly that activity which encouraged new converts to abandon the Law of Moses. Again, proof of Saul’s contempt.

Soon after this, Saul and four Gentiles went to the Temple to report how many days sanctification would last. Gentiles were not allowed to enter, and is proof once more of his contempt. Before the seven days were up however, a group of Hebrews arrived denouncing them for their blasphemous behaviour. This charge included defiling the Temple by bringing in the Gentiles.

Once more, he was rescued by Roman troops. It was during this time that we find out that he bought his Roman citizenship. Not only was he a blasphemer, he was also a traitor to his own people.
The Romans however were suspicious and took him before the Sanhedrin. At this location, he showed further contempt by insulting the High Priest, Ananias. As things got sticky, he reminded them that he too was a Pharisee. This created a row and once more Roman troops had to rescue him.

While he was safely within their fort, the Hebrews plotted to kill him. In order to save his life, the fort commander sent him to Governor Felix. However, the High Priest and his group tracked him down.

Incensed no doubt by his blasphemy, they laid charges. Paul defended himself as recorded, claiming to adhere to the Law of Moses. This was blatantly untrue. Saul was revealed here, to be a liar and schemer to boot.

After a protracted hearing, he appealed to the Emperor himself. He had this right as a citizen of Rome. Obviously, he feared for his life.

A little later, the master escapologist headed for Rome under guard. However, a storm wrecked the ship and he ended up in Malta. Around three months later, he arrived in Rome, still under guard. While there, he was placed under house arrest.

At this time he wrote a number of letters, the contents of which breaks the Law of Moses. These letters also reveal his anti-Semitism. Romans 2:17 is the offending passage. This theme continues from then on.

As time passed the schism within the Christ movement grew larger. Those who followed Saul outnumbered those who followed the disciples. Saul also accused other believers of immoral behaviour.
These letters also introduce the blood right as practiced today.
He convinced his hearers that consuming the blood and body of Christ would remove their sin. Not only is this outright blasphemy, it also introduces paganism into the Christ movement. As a paid up Roman citizen he would have had pagan beliefs.

Paul has effectively turned modern practitioners into pagans. Eating flesh, drinking blood is the act of cannibalism. Okay, I know it’s only symbolic, but my argument stands.

The last supper was not meant to be commemorated. Yeshua himself said, “Do this in memory of me.” He did not say, “This is my body. This is my blood.” As a Hebrew, this would have been abhorrent and blasphemous. He also knew his time was up.

The bread/wine was to be enjoyed by his disciples after his death, as a means of remembrance only. Saul was responsible for creating and perpetuating this heresy.

Later on in these letters, he even suggests that if the Holy Spirit guides you, you could say “A curse on Yeshua.”

I suggest this reveals Saul’s true nature.

In Galatians, he confesses in another letter that Peter the disciple was wrong. He clearly intends to widen the schism and make it permanent. His bid for power was obviously gaining pace.
A little later, he attacks the Law of Moses openly. He said that those obeying the law lived under a curse. His anti-Semitism was on full display here.

In another letter, Ephesians, Saul places Yeshua above God. Outright blasphemy does not cover this crime. The Son is beneath his Father. He also suggests the growing church is the body of Christ. Blasphemy again.

How he kept getting away with this, I have no idea. Why his readers believed it, is even more astonishing. He continues like this throughout the letter.

Under the Law of Moses, he deserved death by stoning. No wonder he was determined to destroy it.

What happened to Saul in the end?

The final Saul letter went to Philemon. After this, he is mentioned no more.

Christian tradition strongly suggests that he died in Rome as a martyr. This happened around AD 64 under Nero.

I accept it.

However, his crimes are something else. Today’s church, which Yeshua did not intend to create, is built on lies, blasphemy and heresy.
Saul is responsible for this.

The rock on which it is built, shall crumble into dust.

This series shall continue...

Milesoftheusa's photo
Tue 10/11/11 07:25 PM

In the dark days after the crucifixion, the disciples huddled within their room, afraid for their very lives. After Yeshua’s appearance, their faith was restored. 40 days later, the spirit of God poured down upon them, giving them the powers of prophecy and healing.

So far, so good.

Their mission was to proclaim the message to the Hebrews, one in which they were faithful. At this time, Peter and James were in charge so to speak.

The disciples, like Yeshua, had no intention of creating a church. To them, men of Jewish faith, such an idea was abhorrent. It was heresy.

“Upon this rock I shall build my church,” was added generations later. Yeshua never said it!

That statement is absolute blasphemy!
Yeshua came to fulfil the law, not to change it.

Then came Paul.

Born Saul, a citizen of Tarsus, he was a Roman citizen. Though he bought this. He was also Jewish, and a Pharisee to boot. This truly evil man had spent some time killing the followers of Yeshua with glee. His hands were stained with the blood of the innocent.
He was blinded by the wrath of God, he did stagger to the home of a Hebrew believer, and he was healed. From this point on however, he made a grab for power.

As Acts claims, he went to the Damascus synagogue and began to preach that Yeshua was the Son of God. Of course, those there recognised him as the bloodthirsty beast who had enjoyed murdering the faithful. How he escaped with his life, I have no idea.
After his escape, he headed for Jerusalem to join the disciples of Yeshua. They did not believe his claims of course until Barnabas spoke up in Saul’s defence. Now, from my viewpoint, Saul and Barnabas had come to a deal. After having so much power as killer of the faithful, he was determined to set up his own religion with himself as absolute leader.

Of course, this would split the faithful and ensure its disappearance among the Hebrew believers. History records this final event.

I suspect gold changed hands and an agreement that Barnabas would be his number 2. This would explain Barnabas extraordinary intervention.
During his stay, he argued with the Greek faithful and again had to flee to Tarsus.

He reappears at Antioch, Syria, with Barnabas in tow, and sailed to Cyprus. While there, they came across a chap called Bar-Yeshua, a Hebrew. This man claimed to be a prophet and was a friend of the governor.

Now Saul and Barnabas regarded this individual as so dangerous to their plan that they cursed him until he was blind. I suspect violence was used to achieve this result. Soon after they headed for Perga, Turkey, where he spoke about God and Yeshua. It was here that he done what was not authorised. He claimed that God had sent him to preach to the Gentiles. He did all this without the sanction of the disciples, therefore without authority from God.

The first schism was well underway, as he had planned all along.
Of course, he and his companion had to flee again.

They arrived in Lystra, as recorded in Acts, where an event took place that confirms my belief.

While there, the locals gave Barnabas the name Zeus, Chief of the Greek God’s and Saul the name Hermes.

As Hebrews, this was rejection of their heritage, and outright blasphemy. If they had truly been speaking the word of God, they would never have accepted such pagan titles. What is further proof of their ungodly behaviour is this. The priest of the Greek Pantheon arranged animal sacrifice in their honour, another incredible act of blasphemy.

This shows clearly that Saul and Barnabas cared nothing about their Hebrew religion and nothing for the emerging Hebrew Christian faith. At that time centred in Jerusalem.

Of course, the local Hebrews were enraged by their behaviour and had them stoned, a punishment decreed by God through Moses.
Unfortunately, they survived.

When he and Barnabas returned to Antioch, they reported the Gentile conversion but hid their act of blasphemy. Had they been honest men, the Pauline heresy would have ended there.

Soon after their arrival, a delegation came from Jerusalem. Obviously, the alarming news of Saul’s activity had reached the disciples. The two-man delegation was despatched to sort them out. Lance the boil shall I say.

The delegation demanded that new converts must obey the Law of Moses and be circumcised. Saul and Barnabes show their contempt for the Hebrew faith and Christology by arguing against such an edict.
After the row, they were taken to Jerusalem under some duress. They were again warned by the disciples, that converts must follow the Law of Moses. A compromise was worked out by Peter and James in order to prevent the split getting any worse.

Under this plan, new converts were expected to follow the Law of Moses, eating sacred food and keeping away from sexual immorality. Saul and Barnabas returned to Antioch with the letter. They had won the first round.

A little later Saul wanted to tour the area and Barnabas wanted to take John Mark with him. Saul had other ideas and after a major row, they separated.

Sometime later Saul and Silas were arrested and thrown in prison while visiting Thyatira. Only Saul’s Roman citizenship saved their lives.

Again, while Roman troops were killing the faithful elsewhere, Saul relied on them to save his neck.

While in Athens, Saul again entered pagan shrines, a violation of Moses Law.

After many travels, he returned to Jerusalem and met James once more. At this meeting, he was reminded of his recent activity. Particularly that activity which encouraged new converts to abandon the Law of Moses. Again, proof of Saul’s contempt.

Soon after this, Saul and four Gentiles went to the Temple to report how many days sanctification would last. Gentiles were not allowed to enter, and is proof once more of his contempt. Before the seven days were up however, a group of Hebrews arrived denouncing them for their blasphemous behaviour. This charge included defiling the Temple by bringing in the Gentiles.

Once more, he was rescued by Roman troops. It was during this time that we find out that he bought his Roman citizenship. Not only was he a blasphemer, he was also a traitor to his own people.
The Romans however were suspicious and took him before the Sanhedrin. At this location, he showed further contempt by insulting the High Priest, Ananias. As things got sticky, he reminded them that he too was a Pharisee. This created a row and once more Roman troops had to rescue him.

While he was safely within their fort, the Hebrews plotted to kill him. In order to save his life, the fort commander sent him to Governor Felix. However, the High Priest and his group tracked him down.

Incensed no doubt by his blasphemy, they laid charges. Paul defended himself as recorded, claiming to adhere to the Law of Moses. This was blatantly untrue. Saul was revealed here, to be a liar and schemer to boot.

After a protracted hearing, he appealed to the Emperor himself. He had this right as a citizen of Rome. Obviously, he feared for his life.

A little later, the master escapologist headed for Rome under guard. However, a storm wrecked the ship and he ended up in Malta. Around three months later, he arrived in Rome, still under guard. While there, he was placed under house arrest.

At this time he wrote a number of letters, the contents of which breaks the Law of Moses. These letters also reveal his anti-Semitism. Romans 2:17 is the offending passage. This theme continues from then on.

As time passed the schism within the Christ movement grew larger. Those who followed Saul outnumbered those who followed the disciples. Saul also accused other believers of immoral behaviour.
These letters also introduce the blood right as practiced today.
He convinced his hearers that consuming the blood and body of Christ would remove their sin. Not only is this outright blasphemy, it also introduces paganism into the Christ movement. As a paid up Roman citizen he would have had pagan beliefs.

Paul has effectively turned modern practitioners into pagans. Eating flesh, drinking blood is the act of cannibalism. Okay, I know it’s only symbolic, but my argument stands.

The last supper was not meant to be commemorated. Yeshua himself said, “Do this in memory of me.” He did not say, “This is my body. This is my blood.” As a Hebrew, this would have been abhorrent and blasphemous. He also knew his time was up.

The bread/wine was to be enjoyed by his disciples after his death, as a means of remembrance only. Saul was responsible for creating and perpetuating this heresy.

Later on in these letters, he even suggests that if the Holy Spirit guides you, you could say “A curse on Yeshua.”

I suggest this reveals Saul’s true nature.

In Galatians, he confesses in another letter that Peter the disciple was wrong. He clearly intends to widen the schism and make it permanent. His bid for power was obviously gaining pace.
A little later, he attacks the Law of Moses openly. He said that those obeying the law lived under a curse. His anti-Semitism was on full display here.

In another letter, Ephesians, Saul places Yeshua above God. Outright blasphemy does not cover this crime. The Son is beneath his Father. He also suggests the growing church is the body of Christ. Blasphemy again.

How he kept getting away with this, I have no idea. Why his readers believed it, is even more astonishing. He continues like this throughout the letter.

Under the Law of Moses, he deserved death by stoning. No wonder he was determined to destroy it.

What happened to Saul in the end?

The final Saul letter went to Philemon. After this, he is mentioned no more.

Christian tradition strongly suggests that he died in Rome as a martyr. This happened around AD 64 under Nero.

I accept it.

However, his crimes are something else. Today’s church, which Yeshua did not intend to create, is built on lies, blasphemy and heresy.
Saul is responsible for this.

The rock on which it is built, shall crumble into dust.

This series shall continue...



why don't you redo this and quote these scriptures that support your claim..i would reaaly like to see that

Redykeulous's photo
Wed 10/12/11 07:57 PM

In the dark days after the crucifixion, the disciples huddled within their room, afraid for their very lives. After Yeshua’s appearance, their faith was restored. 40 days later, the spirit of God poured down upon them, giving them the powers of prophecy and healing.

So far, so good.

Their mission was to proclaim the message to the Hebrews, one in which they were faithful. At this time, Peter and James were in charge so to speak.

The disciples, like Yeshua, had no intention of creating a church. To them, men of Jewish faith, such an idea was abhorrent. It was heresy.

“Upon this rock I shall build my church,” was added generations later. Yeshua never said it!

That statement is absolute blasphemy!
Yeshua came to fulfil the law, not to change it.

Then came Paul.

Born Saul, a citizen of Tarsus, he was a Roman citizen. Though he bought this. He was also Jewish, and a Pharisee to boot. This truly evil man had spent some time killing the followers of Yeshua with glee. His hands were stained with the blood of the innocent.
He was blinded by the wrath of God, he did stagger to the home of a Hebrew believer, and he was healed. From this point on however, he made a grab for power.

As Acts claims, he went to the Damascus synagogue and began to preach that Yeshua was the Son of God. Of course, those there recognised him as the bloodthirsty beast who had enjoyed murdering the faithful. How he escaped with his life, I have no idea.
After his escape, he headed for Jerusalem to join the disciples of Yeshua. They did not believe his claims of course until Barnabas spoke up in Saul’s defence. Now, from my viewpoint, Saul and Barnabas had come to a deal. After having so much power as killer of the faithful, he was determined to set up his own religion with himself as absolute leader.

Of course, this would split the faithful and ensure its disappearance among the Hebrew believers. History records this final event.

I suspect gold changed hands and an agreement that Barnabas would be his number 2. This would explain Barnabas extraordinary intervention.
During his stay, he argued with the Greek faithful and again had to flee to Tarsus.

He reappears at Antioch, Syria, with Barnabas in tow, and sailed to Cyprus. While there, they came across a chap called Bar-Yeshua, a Hebrew. This man claimed to be a prophet and was a friend of the governor.

Now Saul and Barnabas regarded this individual as so dangerous to their plan that they cursed him until he was blind. I suspect violence was used to achieve this result. Soon after they headed for Perga, Turkey, where he spoke about God and Yeshua. It was here that he done what was not authorised. He claimed that God had sent him to preach to the Gentiles. He did all this without the sanction of the disciples, therefore without authority from God.

The first schism was well underway, as he had planned all along.
Of course, he and his companion had to flee again.

They arrived in Lystra, as recorded in Acts, where an event took place that confirms my belief.

While there, the locals gave Barnabas the name Zeus, Chief of the Greek God’s and Saul the name Hermes.

As Hebrews, this was rejection of their heritage, and outright blasphemy. If they had truly been speaking the word of God, they would never have accepted such pagan titles. What is further proof of their ungodly behaviour is this. The priest of the Greek Pantheon arranged animal sacrifice in their honour, another incredible act of blasphemy.

This shows clearly that Saul and Barnabas cared nothing about their Hebrew religion and nothing for the emerging Hebrew Christian faith. At that time centred in Jerusalem.

Of course, the local Hebrews were enraged by their behaviour and had them stoned, a punishment decreed by God through Moses.
Unfortunately, they survived.

When he and Barnabas returned to Antioch, they reported the Gentile conversion but hid their act of blasphemy. Had they been honest men, the Pauline heresy would have ended there.

Soon after their arrival, a delegation came from Jerusalem. Obviously, the alarming news of Saul’s activity had reached the disciples. The two-man delegation was despatched to sort them out. Lance the boil shall I say.

The delegation demanded that new converts must obey the Law of Moses and be circumcised. Saul and Barnabes show their contempt for the Hebrew faith and Christology by arguing against such an edict.
After the row, they were taken to Jerusalem under some duress. They were again warned by the disciples, that converts must follow the Law of Moses. A compromise was worked out by Peter and James in order to prevent the split getting any worse.

Under this plan, new converts were expected to follow the Law of Moses, eating sacred food and keeping away from sexual immorality. Saul and Barnabas returned to Antioch with the letter. They had won the first round.

A little later Saul wanted to tour the area and Barnabas wanted to take John Mark with him. Saul had other ideas and after a major row, they separated.

Sometime later Saul and Silas were arrested and thrown in prison while visiting Thyatira. Only Saul’s Roman citizenship saved their lives.

Again, while Roman troops were killing the faithful elsewhere, Saul relied on them to save his neck.

While in Athens, Saul again entered pagan shrines, a violation of Moses Law.

After many travels, he returned to Jerusalem and met James once more. At this meeting, he was reminded of his recent activity. Particularly that activity which encouraged new converts to abandon the Law of Moses. Again, proof of Saul’s contempt.

Soon after this, Saul and four Gentiles went to the Temple to report how many days sanctification would last. Gentiles were not allowed to enter, and is proof once more of his contempt. Before the seven days were up however, a group of Hebrews arrived denouncing them for their blasphemous behaviour. This charge included defiling the Temple by bringing in the Gentiles.

Once more, he was rescued by Roman troops. It was during this time that we find out that he bought his Roman citizenship. Not only was he a blasphemer, he was also a traitor to his own people.
The Romans however were suspicious and took him before the Sanhedrin. At this location, he showed further contempt by insulting the High Priest, Ananias. As things got sticky, he reminded them that he too was a Pharisee. This created a row and once more Roman troops had to rescue him.

While he was safely within their fort, the Hebrews plotted to kill him. In order to save his life, the fort commander sent him to Governor Felix. However, the High Priest and his group tracked him down.

Incensed no doubt by his blasphemy, they laid charges. Paul defended himself as recorded, claiming to adhere to the Law of Moses. This was blatantly untrue. Saul was revealed here, to be a liar and schemer to boot.

After a protracted hearing, he appealed to the Emperor himself. He had this right as a citizen of Rome. Obviously, he feared for his life.

A little later, the master escapologist headed for Rome under guard. However, a storm wrecked the ship and he ended up in Malta. Around three months later, he arrived in Rome, still under guard. While there, he was placed under house arrest.

At this time he wrote a number of letters, the contents of which breaks the Law of Moses. These letters also reveal his anti-Semitism. Romans 2:17 is the offending passage. This theme continues from then on.

As time passed the schism within the Christ movement grew larger. Those who followed Saul outnumbered those who followed the disciples. Saul also accused other believers of immoral behaviour.
These letters also introduce the blood right as practiced today.
He convinced his hearers that consuming the blood and body of Christ would remove their sin. Not only is this outright blasphemy, it also introduces paganism into the Christ movement. As a paid up Roman citizen he would have had pagan beliefs.

Paul has effectively turned modern practitioners into pagans. Eating flesh, drinking blood is the act of cannibalism. Okay, I know it’s only symbolic, but my argument stands.

The last supper was not meant to be commemorated. Yeshua himself said, “Do this in memory of me.” He did not say, “This is my body. This is my blood.” As a Hebrew, this would have been abhorrent and blasphemous. He also knew his time was up.

The bread/wine was to be enjoyed by his disciples after his death, as a means of remembrance only. Saul was responsible for creating and perpetuating this heresy.

Later on in these letters, he even suggests that if the Holy Spirit guides you, you could say “A curse on Yeshua.”

I suggest this reveals Saul’s true nature.

In Galatians, he confesses in another letter that Peter the disciple was wrong. He clearly intends to widen the schism and make it permanent. His bid for power was obviously gaining pace.
A little later, he attacks the Law of Moses openly. He said that those obeying the law lived under a curse. His anti-Semitism was on full display here.

In another letter, Ephesians, Saul places Yeshua above God. Outright blasphemy does not cover this crime. The Son is beneath his Father. He also suggests the growing church is the body of Christ. Blasphemy again.

How he kept getting away with this, I have no idea. Why his readers believed it, is even more astonishing. He continues like this throughout the letter.

Under the Law of Moses, he deserved death by stoning. No wonder he was determined to destroy it.

What happened to Saul in the end?

The final Saul letter went to Philemon. After this, he is mentioned no more.

Christian tradition strongly suggests that he died in Rome as a martyr. This happened around AD 64 under Nero.

I accept it.

However, his crimes are something else. Today’s church, which Yeshua did not intend to create, is built on lies, blasphemy and heresy.
Saul is responsible for this.

The rock on which it is built, shall crumble into dust.

This series shall continue...



NOW, just imagine. The stories that have made up the New Testament have had over 2000 years of such input. Still after 2000 + years there is still so much room between the line for the addition of new dogma.

Everyone's religious beliefs are ultimately of their own making.

no photo
Wed 10/12/11 09:37 PM
Edited by MorningSong on Wed 10/12/11 10:37 PM
NOW, just imagine. The stories that have made up the New Testament have had over 2000 years of such input. Still after 2000 + years there is still so much room between the line for the addition of new dogma.

Everyone's religious beliefs are ultimately of their own making.


Redy...that's EXACTLY WHY one needs the INDWELLING of

the HOLY SPIRIT, in order to be able to RIGHTLY

DIVIDE the WORD OF GOD..otherwise..all one has to offer in an

attempt to deicipher God's Word, is just ones own personal

OPINION ONLY....nothing more.


And Tudoavenger...again as said before......and no offense

intended...but almost everything you are sharing on

here ,does NOT line

up with the Word of God in the least!!!

Again...let's be teachable now...ok?


All Believers are able to RECOGNIZE TRUTH from ERROR....and are

therefore able to tell when someone is posting a true

and

correct interpretation of God's Word....

versus someone just posting one's personal opinion ONLY.




But of course,... You and everyone else here is welcome

to share opinions on here....but just don't call it

prophecy...or the true Interpretation of God's Word....because

it most definitely is NOT.flowerforyou

Again...let's stay teachable......



:heart::heart::heart:

no photo
Wed 10/12/11 10:18 PM







..............When the Holy Spirit Indwells the believer..............



Jesus told the disciples to stay in Jerusalem until they receive Holy Spirit, then they would have power. For many people who come to Christ, the “power” promised by Jesus never seems to come. Why? Life is a struggle from one sin to the other, a life of defeat. What did Jesus mean?

The Holy Spirit is not an option in the life of the believer, without the Holy Spirit, there is no salvation. As Paul declares in Romans 8:9, without the Spirit of Christ he is not His. Therefore, it is important for us to make sure we are have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, making sure our salvation.

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9b

Jesus declares in John’s Gospel, “unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Jesus later explains, to be born again means to be born of the Spirit, where the Spirit of God dwells in the believer. God Himself takes up residence inside our earthly body, God’s Spirit guiding our spirit (Romans 8:26-2). So if God is dwelling inside us, why do we struggle?

What does the indwelling of the Spirit mean?

In the process of redemption, after the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, He draws the soul to Christ and salvation, imparting faith as a gift of the Spirit. The faith allows the soul to see their guilt of sin and turn from sin (repentance), asking God to forgive their sins, through the blood of Christ. Through the death of Christ, the sins of the repentant sinner are paid for on the cross, they are declared justified before God, on account of Christ. The Holy Spirit then enters the new believer and is deposited as a guarantee. The soul is a new creation before God, Born Again, justified in Christ.




Steps in the Redemption process:

Conviction

8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8


Faith

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2;8


Repentance

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4

Forgiveness

'to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. Acts 26:18


Justification

Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. Romans 5:18


Regeneration

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Cor. 5:17



Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3




With the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, our bodies become literally, the Temple of God. We are now separated, from this world, because God has taken residence with us, we are restored to God. We are the purchased possession of Christ, whose blood paid for our sins.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
I Cor. 6:19

The word for Holy, Saint and Sanctify are derived from the Greek word, a&gioß Hagios, meaning separated, or set apart. A person coming to faith means God has set that person apart from those in the world. Scripture calls all who are saved as saints, or holy they are separated. We are born again, born of the spirit, not of the flesh.



What happens with the Holy Spirit dwelling in us?



Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they receive the Holy Spirit, which would result in power. The Greek word for power is duvnamiß Dunamis, from this word, we have the word dynamite, the word means strength power, ability. The Holy Spirit not only transforms us into a new creation, we receive power to do the work at hand.

We may look the same on the outside, but inside we are a new creation, we are born again, with the Holy Spirit and His power. On Pentecost, the Spirit came upon the disciples, equipping them with power to bring the gospel forth from Jerusalem. The power of the Spirit was not only for the disciples in Jerusalem, but also for us.

We can apply the benefits and power of the Spirit in our own lives, understanding what the Spirit does in our life.


1. The Holy Spirit is OUR TEACHER GUIDING US INTO TRUTH (See also John 16;13, I Cor. 2:10-11


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will TEACH you ALL things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26


2. The Holy Spirit INTERCEDES on our behalf

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:26-27


3. The Holy Spirit gives us joy and peace

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23


4. The spirit gives us gifts for ministry (Ephesians 2;8)

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
I Corinthians 12:4-7


5. The Spirit gives us boldness to witness (I Tim. 3:13)

And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. Acts 4;31


6. The Spirit gives us power (Zechariah 4:6)

that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, Ephesians 3:16

19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, Ephesians 1;19-20


7. The Spirit gives us the power to live godly lives

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:27


8. The Spirit helps us to pray

praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints Ephesians 6:18


9. The Spirit gives us wisdom and revelation

17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints
Ephesians 1:17-18


10. God the Father speaks through us by the Spirit

"for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. Matthew 10:20



The Holy Spirit, who dwells with us, gives us power which the world does not comprehend. For many of us the potential, which dwells within us, is never realized because we will not take God at His word.

The Holy Spirit in Old Testament times

Before the period of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit dwelt selectively, and could be removed (Psalm 51:11). The Holy Spirit came upon those who were to minister for the Lord, for example, the Spirit rested upon the seventy elders of Israel.



Then the Lord came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again. Numbers 11:25

The Holy Spirit also filled Joshua, David, Daniel and others, that the Lord’s work could be completed. The prophets looked forward to a day, when God’s Spirit would rest upon humanity and sins would be forgiven. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Joel looked forward to such a day when the Spirit would dwell in men eternally and sins removed. (Isaiah 59:21, Ezekiel 36:26-27, Joel 2:28-29, Jeremiah 31:31-33)

"As for Me," says the Lord, "this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants," says the Lord, "from this time and forevermore." Isaiah 59:21

The death of Christ, the Messiah would pay for the sins past, present and future, the Mosaic Covenant was only a foreshadowing of the eternal sacrifice of the Messiah, who would redeem humanity.

11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:11-12

Only with the eternal sacrifice of Jesus Christ, could the Spirit of God dwell eternally with humanity, since Jesus atoned for all sins. Today, we have a relationship with God, which those in the Old Testament period, could only dream of, we have an eternal relationship with God through the Spirit, dwelling in us.


What does Baptism of the Spirit mean?

The word Baptism comes from the Greek word, bavptisma Baptisma, meaning submersion or immersion. The most famous person associated with this term is John the Baptist, who preceded Jesus in ministry, preparing Israel for the coming of Messiah. John baptized people with full-body immersion in the river Jordan, for the repentance of sin.

John’s ministry was contrasted with Jesus by baptism, John we are told baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire (Judgement). So what is being referred to here?

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11

John the Baptist prepared people for salvation, through repentance, his work was in anticipation of the Messiah, who would pay for the sins of world. Therefore, when we come to Christ, we are baptized in the Spirit, meaning we are saved.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. I Corinthians 12;13

Baptism in water is a symbol of identification with Jesus, we are dying with Christ, our old nature dies and a new one emerges. (See also Matthew 28:19)

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4

So physical baptism is merely a picture of what happens in the Spirit. For this reason, after someone believes, they are baptized. We identify with the with Christ’s death and resurrection, which allows us to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Every “True” believer needs to be baptized by the Spirit, since there is only one Baptism (I Cor. 12:13).



Can lack of faith prevent God’s Spirit



Why then do we lack power, if we accept Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us? The answer for many is belief, do we really believe God can accomplish what He promises in His word? This is not new, throughout the scriptures God has always operated through faith. From the Garden of Eden, the Serpent had Adam and Eve question, not believe what God commanded. They fell because of lack of belief.

Lack of faith prevents God from working in our lives. Hebrews chapter 11 notes the heroes of the faith. What made them special? They believed God. Do we really believe God’s promises?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

God delivered Israel from Egypt through mighty miracles, yet they spent forty-years wondering in the wilderness of Sinai. Why? What went wrong? Again, Israel lacked the faith in God’s power and ability. They refused to trust God, even though He delivered them from Egypt. Only Joshua and Caleb were allowed to cross into the Promised Land, because they trusted God. They believed he could deliver them from the giants in the land. They pleaded with Israel to trust God, but they were nearly killed, by the people because of their faith.

God allows us to listen in on the conversation, between Israel and the two spies, Joshua and Caleb and the rest of the nation. These two reported through eyes of faith, and the other ten through unbelief. Therefore Israel sent twelve spies into the land, the two who we know about are Joshua and Caleb. All twelve spies saw the same land, but 10 came back with a bad report, while Joshua and Caleb came back with a good report.

Report of the 10 spies

27 Then they told him, and said: "We went to the land where you sent us. It truly flows with milk and honey, and this is its fruit. 28 "Nevertheless the people who dwell in the land are strong; the cities are fortified and very large; moreover we saw the descendants of Anak there. 29 "The Amalekites dwell in the land of the South; the Hittites, the Jebusites, and the Amorites dwell in the mountains; and the Canaanites dwell by
the sea and along the banks of the Jordan."

Joshua and Caleb

30 Then Caleb quieted the people before Moses, and said, "Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to overcome it."

Ten spies

31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we."

32 And they gave the children of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, "The land through which we have gone as spies is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great stature.

33 "There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." Numbers 13:27-33



Notice the contrast between the two groups, what did Joshua and Caleb have that the others lacked? It was faith in God’s ability. They knew God could give them the land if He wanted. How did the ten spies see themselves, compared to the men of Canaan? They were like grasshoppers; their lack of faith, not God’s ability prevented them from entering the land of promise. Their lack of faith also caused them to wander in the deserts of Sinai for the next 40-years.

Do we say the same thing to God? Israel wanted to go back to Egypt; they did not trust God’s ability. Many times when we struggle, we look back to the time before we came to Christ, thinking what was it like in our “Egypt”. We get frustrated with the battle over sin or our problems, they become our giants and we are like grasshoppers. Why can’t we defeat them, lets go back to Egypt!, we hear ourselves saying.

Just as in the days of the Exodus, our battle is a battle of faith, not a physical battle. Will we trust the Lord to deliver us from our giants, or will lack the faith? Do we believe God has the ability? Listen to Joshua, as he pleads with Israel to trust the Lord.



6 But Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes; 7 and they spoke to all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying: "The land we passed through to spy out is an exceedingly good land. 8 "If the Lord delights in us, then He will bring us into this land and give it to us, 'a land which flows with milk and honey.' 9 "Only do not rebel against the Lord, nor fear the people of the land, for they are our bread; their protection has departed from them, and the Lord is with us. Do not fear them." 10 And all the congregation said to stone them with stones. Now the glory of the Lord appeared in the tabernacle of meeting before all the children of Israel. 11 Then the Lord said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them? Numbers 14:6-11

Lets apply this situation in our own life, the Lord asks Moses how long will they not believe Me? Do we really believe we can have victory? Do we really trust the Lord? Are we like Joshua and Caleb or are we like the ten-spies?

We need to evaluate our relationship with the Lord, if we are like the 10-spies, what can we do to change? We need to take our thoughts captive to word of God, not what the world thinks and says.

Success in the world, does not mean success with God. It does not matter what the world thinks, only God thinks. (Matthew 13;22)



How much faith should we have?



So how much faith do we need for Holy-Spirit empowered lives? God understands our lack of faith for this reason despite our lack he still answers our prayers. We just never know the full potential of God’s answer for us because we lack.

Contrast the examples below:


A woman from Tyre who pleads with Jesus to heal her daughter

Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour. Matthew 15:28


A Roman centurion who trusted Jesus words alone

When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, "I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!" Luke 7:9


The Disciples are scared to die in boat with Jesus

But He said to them, "Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?" Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm. Matthew 8:26


The Lord will do marvels even with a small amount of faith, but many times our unbelief prevents us from going beyond what we expect. In the Gospel of Mark, the father of demon-possessed boy begged Jesus to save his son; Jesus told him “all things are possible to him who believes”. The man replied, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"(Mark 9:23-24). Jesus and the boy’s father both knew he faith, even though the faith was lacking. Therefore he asked Jesus to help his unbelief.

The man did not rest in his unbelief, he prayed Jesus to take him to a higher level in faith. We too, must not rest in unbelief; we need to beg the Lord to increase our faith.

How can we increase our faith?

One way is to examine our areas of doubt, and do something about it. Where do you lack in faith? Do we question the existence of God? Whether the Bible is true? Is Jesus really the Messiah?

Maybe we need to get answers to these questions, so our faith can grow. Well, we can take these questions to the Lord, just like the giants in the Promised Land.

Bible prophecy for me has played a great role in building faith, because God presents the evidence of Himself through His word. When I had doubts about Jesus, I read Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:10, both which reveal the role of the Suffering Messiah, 700 and 520 years before Christ. The Seventy Weeks of Daniel, tells us the exact month, year and day, Jesus would die 539-years before he is born.

Whatever our issue, God provides the answers, we just need to ask Him to help us increase our faith. We should not rest in unbelief.



How do I know God exists?

Lord help me to know you are real, reveal yourself to me, Help me to stop doubting.

Why should I believe the Bible?

Lord help me to see the truth in your word, help me to trust in scripture



Obedience follows faith

Israel struggled in the wilderness because they did not believe the Lord. The result of their lack of faith was their disobedience. Obedience and disobedience follows our faith in His words. The more we believe, the more we respond, the less we believe the less we respond. Is God really watching? Does God really care what we do? Well if we do not think God cares or watches, then we do what our flesh wants to do.

What is the result of having God’s Spirit in us? We now have the power, literally the “Dynamite” to live a life pleasing to the Lord. Do we have enough faith to obey?

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16



http://www.truthnet.org/Holy-Spirit/5HolySpirit-Indwelling/Index.htm


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