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Topic: Teacher at High School tries to force Muslim on Student
Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sat 02/18/12 11:02 AM


Perhaps the teacher should do what the translater did not.
All of the song is in english but the word God.
Babel raises its head once again.
If you put God back in the song by the sounds you use.
It is one hell of a gospel piece.
is it not.


Interesting point.


I think it's one of the few times I, without a doubt, agree with Adventure.

..I only say that, because his wording often confuses me. :O

Lpdon's photo
Sat 02/18/12 02:58 PM


since when cant they say pledge of allegiance? when did congress pass this law?

is this true in all circumstances? Or are they just not permitted to mandate it?

could they recite it in an american history class, where it has a specfic context?

this seems more about context, and the fact it is a voluntary situation and not a mandatory school course,,,


The pledge has been banned by various schools boards across the country.


Lpdon, I think you've been lied to by someone. I heard this claim a few years ago, and I looked into and found that nowhere had the pledge of allegiance been 'banned' from a public school. (Some private schools don't say it.) I suppose this could be a very recent development, but I'd put my money on the idea that someone lied to you.




Actually several schools across the country have banne dthe Pledge.

Also here is a Soldiers take on it...........

There’s something seriously wrong with the system of education in this country where flags are frowned upon and the Pledge of Allegiance is flat out banned! If you can’t pledge allegiance to your country (not the politicians), what are you doing here?

A school in Massachusetts (go figure), has banned the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. And until Senior Sean Harrington complained, the classes didn’t even have flags in them. He fought hard to get flags in the classroom and the Pledge of Allegiance reinstated. He won on the flags, but the pledge was forbidden.

The principal responsible for this travesty is Charles Skidmore, principal of Arlington High School in Arlington, Mass. If you’d like to make your opinions known about this un-American policy, his phone number is 781-316-3590/3591.

Ironically, the Pledge of Allegiance started as a public school celebration. It was introduced in 1892 and has been changed four times since its inception. And yet, these days we find educators increasing unwilling to ask students to be loyal to their own country. One of the most heartbreaking parts of a FoxNews article on the subject said this:

The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old’s request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it, according to a report in the Arlington Patch.

Really?! Are our educators really that way? I’m sure we could find plenty of teachers – whose job is to teach American history and civics – that are out of work and willing to recite the pledge to replace the ones that can’t. Maybe that school committee needs to hear from you:

http://militarygear.com/asp/2010/06/30/school-bans-pledge-of-allegiance/

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sat 02/18/12 03:13 PM

Actually several schools across the country have banne dthe Pledge.

Also here is a Soldiers take on it...........

There’s something seriously wrong with the system of education in this country where flags are frowned upon and the Pledge of Allegiance is flat out banned! If you can’t pledge allegiance to your country (not the politicians), what are you doing here?

A school in Massachusetts (go figure), has banned the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. And until Senior Sean Harrington complained, the classes didn’t even have flags in them. He fought hard to get flags in the classroom and the Pledge of Allegiance reinstated. He won on the flags, but the pledge was forbidden.

The principal responsible for this travesty is Charles Skidmore, principal of Arlington High School in Arlington, Mass. If you’d like to make your opinions known about this un-American policy, his phone number is 781-316-3590/3591.

Ironically, the Pledge of Allegiance started as a public school celebration. It was introduced in 1892 and has been changed four times since its inception. And yet, these days we find educators increasing unwilling to ask students to be loyal to their own country. One of the most heartbreaking parts of a FoxNews article on the subject said this:

The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old’s request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it, according to a report in the Arlington Patch.

Really?! Are our educators really that way? I’m sure we could find plenty of teachers – whose job is to teach American history and civics – that are out of work and willing to recite the pledge to replace the ones that can’t. Maybe that school committee needs to hear from you:

http://militarygear.com/asp/2010/06/30/school-bans-pledge-of-allegiance/


After further review, Lpdon is actually not only right, but it was the Supreme Court itself who validated this proclamation.

It was voted--

Man eff that I'm not explaining it, read it for yourself:

This is from the NY Times.

A federal appeals court here declared today that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because the phrase ''one nation under God'' violates the separation of church and state.

In a decision that drew protest across the political spectrum, a three-member panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that the pledge, as it exists in federal law, could not be recited in schools because it violates the First Amendment's prohibition against a state endorsement of religion.

In addition, the ruling, which will certainly be appealed, turned on the phrase ''under God'' which Congress added in 1954 to one of the most hallowed patriotic traditions in the nation.

From a constitutional standpoint, those two words, Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote in the 2-to-1 decision, were just as objectionable as a statement that ''we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion.'' [Excerpts, Page A20.]

This article was written by: Evelyn Nieves in 2002.

You can find the actual article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/27/us/judges-ban-pledge-of-allegiance-from-schools-citing-under-god.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Furthermore:

Wikipedia compares the Pledge of Allegiance, or better suggest that it is a 'dedication' that holds features of totalitarian states like Nazi Germany.

Which can be read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pledge_of_Allegiance


no photo
Sat 02/18/12 07:10 PM



since when cant they say pledge of allegiance? when did congress pass this law?

is this true in all circumstances? Or are they just not permitted to mandate it?

could they recite it in an american history class, where it has a specfic context?

this seems more about context, and the fact it is a voluntary situation and not a mandatory school course,,,


The pledge has been banned by various schools boards across the country.


Lpdon, I think you've been lied to by someone. I heard this claim a few years ago, and I looked into and found that nowhere had the pledge of allegiance been 'banned' from a public school. (Some private schools don't say it.) I suppose this could be a very recent development, but I'd put my money on the idea that someone lied to you.




Actually several schools across the country have banne dthe Pledge.

...

A school in Massachusetts (go figure), has banned the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. And until Senior Sean Harrington complained, the classes didn’t even have flags in them. He fought hard to get flags in the classroom and the Pledge of Allegiance reinstated. He won on the flags, but the pledge was forbidden.

...



I thought so - this is a lie. The pledge was never banned. Unless by 'banned' you (and this author) mean "not mandated".

See, to me "banned" means forbidden to do.

I seriously doubt anyone would have gotten in trouble if, during recess, lunch, or before school, they personally stood up and said the pledge of allegiance.

So this school did not include the pledge of allegiance in its daily routine - and some people say the school has 'banned' the pledge. Ridiculous.

That would be like saying I've banned the saying of grace before lunch, just because I don't have a school wide saying-of-grace. Or that I've banned the use of mechanical pencils, just because I don't hand them out to every student. Or that they've banned the students from walking home, just because they didn't organize an official group that walked home together.

The pledge wasn't 'banned', and its totally dishonest to claim that it was.

The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old’s request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance,


This is so misleading that its practically a lie. The proposal in question was that the site administrators would be mandated to have the pledge read over the loudspeaker each day, and that students may voluntarily participate or not. Mandated.

But the way this is worded in the quote, it makes it sound like the students were forbidden from saying the pledge at all.

For a school to decide not to say the pledge over the intercom each day is not the same thing as saying "no students are allowed to say the pledge on school property".


no photo
Sat 02/18/12 07:16 PM

After further review, Lpdon is actually not only right, but it was the Supreme Court itself who validated this proclamation.


Sin, I think you might be mixing two different issues. As far as I can tell, the Massachusetts school didn't say they would not say the pledge because it violated separation of church and state. Neither the specific proposal in question, nor the dialog surrounding the tie-vote (which meant the proposal failed), dealt with issues of separation of church and state (as far as I can tell). They just didn't want to mandate the saying of the pledge.


Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sat 02/18/12 11:40 PM


After further review, Lpdon is actually not only right, but it was the Supreme Court itself who validated this proclamation.


Sin, I think you might be mixing two different issues. As far as I can tell, the Massachusetts school didn't say they would not say the pledge because it violated separation of church and state. Neither the specific proposal in question, nor the dialog surrounding the tie-vote (which meant the proposal failed), dealt with issues of separation of church and state (as far as I can tell). They just didn't want to mandate the saying of the pledge.




There's two different Pledge of Allegiances?

While that is news to me; after re-reading it, and previous articles, I totally am guilty of putting extra words mentality into the equation. The crap I was reading, and why I hate the media sometimes, was actual worded in a way so you'd put extra emphasis into something that wasn't actually 'valid'.

It doesn't state that they are 'forbidden' or as you put it 'banned' from saying the Pledge, it is just stating that it will no longer be an open practice; due to how unconstitutional it is.

I did find some schools where it is banned; however, these are not of note for a few reasons. One, they were done well before 2002; and Two, they are all Christian Academies and Schools which, in its own right; makes sense.

So, again, I must recant my previous statement due to a blatant misreading on my part. :D

..hey it happens.

I really should sleep more. :/

..and get my contacts again. D:

msharmony's photo
Sat 02/18/12 11:44 PM


Actually several schools across the country have banne dthe Pledge.

Also here is a Soldiers take on it...........

There’s something seriously wrong with the system of education in this country where flags are frowned upon and the Pledge of Allegiance is flat out banned! If you can’t pledge allegiance to your country (not the politicians), what are you doing here?

A school in Massachusetts (go figure), has banned the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. And until Senior Sean Harrington complained, the classes didn’t even have flags in them. He fought hard to get flags in the classroom and the Pledge of Allegiance reinstated. He won on the flags, but the pledge was forbidden.

The principal responsible for this travesty is Charles Skidmore, principal of Arlington High School in Arlington, Mass. If you’d like to make your opinions known about this un-American policy, his phone number is 781-316-3590/3591.

Ironically, the Pledge of Allegiance started as a public school celebration. It was introduced in 1892 and has been changed four times since its inception. And yet, these days we find educators increasing unwilling to ask students to be loyal to their own country. One of the most heartbreaking parts of a FoxNews article on the subject said this:

The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old’s request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it, according to a report in the Arlington Patch.

Really?! Are our educators really that way? I’m sure we could find plenty of teachers – whose job is to teach American history and civics – that are out of work and willing to recite the pledge to replace the ones that can’t. Maybe that school committee needs to hear from you:

http://militarygear.com/asp/2010/06/30/school-bans-pledge-of-allegiance/


After further review, Lpdon is actually not only right, but it was the Supreme Court itself who validated this proclamation.

It was voted--

Man eff that I'm not explaining it, read it for yourself:

This is from the NY Times.

A federal appeals court here declared today that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because the phrase ''one nation under God'' violates the separation of church and state.

In a decision that drew protest across the political spectrum, a three-member panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that the pledge, as it exists in federal law, could not be recited in schools because it violates the First Amendment's prohibition against a state endorsement of religion.

In addition, the ruling, which will certainly be appealed, turned on the phrase ''under God'' which Congress added in 1954 to one of the most hallowed patriotic traditions in the nation.

From a constitutional standpoint, those two words, Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote in the 2-to-1 decision, were just as objectionable as a statement that ''we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion.'' [Excerpts, Page A20.]

This article was written by: Evelyn Nieves in 2002.

You can find the actual article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/27/us/judges-ban-pledge-of-allegiance-from-schools-citing-under-god.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Furthermore:

Wikipedia compares the Pledge of Allegiance, or better suggest that it is a 'dedication' that holds features of totalitarian states like Nazi Germany.

Which can be read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pledge_of_Allegiance





unfortunately, because of the extreme trend to totally REMOVE God from public schools (as opposed to not mandating) , the common thought is that even an optional pledge with the words compels other students to do the same,, which in a required class I could see being an issue

but then again, if its an optional CLASS about pledges, or about world history, or about MUSIC, I cant see the same objection so long as there is a diverse option there which the children are learning about,,,


Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sat 02/18/12 11:51 PM
"It is never about what they say (media), it's about what they leave out."

no photo
Sun 02/19/12 12:57 PM
Sin, I think you might be mixing two different issues. As far as I can tell, the Massachusetts school didn't say they would not say the pledge because it violated separation of church and state. Neither the specific proposal in question, nor the dialog surrounding the tie-vote (which meant the proposal failed), dealt with issues of separation of church and state (as far as I can tell). They just didn't want to mandate the saying of the pledge.




There's two different Pledge of Allegiances?


There have been several variations of the pledge.

This is not long, and while I'm not 100% sure its completely accurate, I think it is worth reading:

http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm


It doesn't state that they are 'forbidden' or as you put it 'banned' from saying the Pledge,


Yeah, people often exaggerate the case in order to get people on their side.


I did find some schools where it is banned; however, these are not of note for a few reasons. One, they were done well before 2002; and Two, they are all Christian Academies and Schools


So they were private schools, right?



Ruth34611's photo
Sun 02/19/12 01:51 PM
My son sang "Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" in the Christmas show in his Kindergarten. I didn't care.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sun 02/19/12 01:54 PM

There have been several variations of the pledge.

This is not long, and while I'm not 100% sure its completely accurate, I think it is worth reading:

http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm


Very interesting actually.
Thanks for that read.



Yeah, people often exaggerate the case in order to get people on their side.


You can say that again!
..but in case you take things literally, don't. :D


So they were private schools, right?


All but one.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sun 02/19/12 01:55 PM

My son sang "Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" in the Christmas show in his Kindergarten. I didn't care.


..isn't that just a spinning top thingy though?

Granted, used by the Jewish, but still.
Isn't it just a toy?

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 02/19/12 01:59 PM


My son sang "Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" in the Christmas show in his Kindergarten. I didn't care.


..isn't that just a spinning top thingy though?

Granted, used by the Jewish, but still.
Isn't it just a toy?


It is. It's a game played during Hanukkah.


Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Sun 02/19/12 02:07 PM



My son sang "Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" in the Christmas show in his Kindergarten. I didn't care.


..isn't that just a spinning top thingy though?

Granted, used by the Jewish, but still.
Isn't it just a toy?


It is. It's a game played during Hanukkah.


..Well, that's good that you're open and didn't mad over that.

..but I don't know if that'd be considered the same as..

Saying 'I love Allah' when you are Christian.
or
'I love Buddha' when you are Muslim..

Of course, for the record, I'm not sure what the actual words are of the song, I was just assuming it'd have to be something along that lines to cause an outrage.

IMO.

The only way you'd get an outrage from me, no matter if it said I love God, Allah, or Alien Hippos...

..is if the song said something like, 'I love men'.

Cause I'm so not gay. -.-

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 02/19/12 02:11 PM



..but I don't know if that'd be considered the same as..

Saying 'I love Allah' when you are Christian.
or
'I love Buddha' when you are Muslim..



That is a good point.

newarkjw's photo
Sun 02/19/12 02:28 PM

Cartman: Here's a little dreidel
That's small and made of clay
But i'm not gonna play with it
'Cos dreidel's f!ckin' gay.

Kyle: Hey, Shut your mouth, fatazz!
Cartman: Jews, play stupid games..
Jews, that's why they're lame. .........smokin





Ruth34611's photo
Sun 02/19/12 02:29 PM


Cartman: Here's a little dreidel
That's small and made of clay
But i'm not gonna play with it
'Cos dreidel's f!ckin' gay.

Kyle: Hey, Shut your mouth, fatazz!
Cartman: Jews, play stupid games..
Jews, that's why they're lame. .........smokin







laugh Love Southpark!

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