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| Topic: Edward Snowden's martyrdom | |
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An OpEd by Doug Wead who is a historian and New York Times bestselling author of more than thirty books. He has served as an adviser to two American presidents and was a special assistant to the president in the Bush, Sr. White House. According to the U.S. government, Edward Snowden is a spy. That is the official word from Attorney General Eric Holder, who is accusing him of espionage. He is not a hero, we are now being told. Wait – he is not a whistleblower? He has not done a service to the American people? http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/edward-snowdens-martyrdom/ |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore.
Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum) |
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So why isn't Ollie North in jail instead of doing talk shows and appearing as a political talking head on the varying networks....and getting well paid for it? |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore. Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum) Yep, he was small potatoes. I think most espionage and spying is about corporate secrets and the effort of the Elite banker (bankster) families to be the first to dominate the the world. The leading whistleblower of all time was Philip Agee Before there was Edward Snowden, William Binney and Thomas Drake … before there was Bradley Manning, Sibel Edmonds and Jesselyn Radack … there was Philip Agee. What Agee revealed is still the most startling and important information about US foreign policy that any American government whistleblower has ever revealed. Here is an interesting read: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/118 |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore. Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum) |
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Martyrdom? Is he dead?
The sensationalism surrounding this case is hilarious. |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore. Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum) 
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Martyrdom? Is he dead? The sensationalism surrounding this case is hilarious. 
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Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined
The U.S. government charged former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden with three felonies, including two under the Espionage Act. He now becomes the eighth person to be charged under the Espionage Act under Obama, according to Firedoglake. That is more than double all previous presidents combined. Prior to Obama’s administration only three people who leaked information had been charged under the 1917 statute that was never really intended for leakers. The arguments that Obama uses now to use that statute to go after those who reveal information were first brought up by Ronald Reagan’s administration when it went after a Navy civilian analyst who leaked photographs to a British military magazine. But now the practice has become widespread. The Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald wonders how these prosecutions are even “remotely defensible” coming from a president who vowed to usher in an era of transparency in Washington. Sure, Snowden may have broken the law, writes Greenwald, but he hardly committed “espionage.” He didn’t sell secrets to foreign governments, or try to profit from them in any way. Snowden simply blew the whistle on something he saw. “The irony is obvious,” writes Greenwald, “the same people who are building a ubiquitous surveillance system to spy on everyone in the world, including their own citizens, are now accusing the person who exposed it of ‘espionage.’” http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/22/edward_snowden_is_eighth_person_obama_has_pursued_under_espionage_act.html |
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How the NSA is still harvesting your online data
Files show vast scale of current NSA metadata programs, with one stream alone celebrating 'one trillion records processed' A review of top-secret NSA documents suggests that the surveillance agency still collects and sifts through large quantities of Americans' online data – despite the Obama administration's insistence that the program that began under Bush ended in 2011. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/22/edward_snowden_is_eighth_person_obama_has_pursued_under_espionage_act.html |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore. Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum) |
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What do you think your fictional hero John Gault would say about every american having every thing they do online and on cell phone being recorded? It would be an interesting hypothetical, if it were true. |
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Tue 07/02/13 10:01 PM
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I feel sorry for Snowden. He wasted his life on a stupid and pointless
exercise benefitting no one but forever calling into question Snowden's own reputation and character. It was a character asassination of his own doing and he will have to live with it somewhere - likely in prison. |
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Tue 07/02/13 11:33 PM
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I feel sorry for Snowden. He wasted his life on a stupid and pointless exercise benefitting no one but forever calling into question Snowden's own reputation and character. It was a character asassination of his own doing and he will have to live with it somewhere - likely in prison. I'd hardly call being a hero assassinating his own character. He's only one man of conscience. there are MANY others still embedded in the system. Prison doesn't change the principles of a principled man. Look at Mordecai Vanunu. And look at these young hackers. Some were caught & went to prison, but it hasn't changed their principles. They are all heroes IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-d5TDHa8jw |
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There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore. Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person. There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job. Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't. If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail. Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight. Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example. At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival. (from another Forum)
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I feel sorry for Snowden. He wasted his life on a stupid and pointless exercise benefitting no one but forever calling into question Snowden's own reputation and character. It was a character asassination of his own doing and he will have to live with it somewhere - likely in prison. I'd hardly call being a hero assassinating his own character. He's only one man of conscience. there are MANY others still embedded in the system. Prison doesn't change the principles of a principled man. Look at Mordecai Vanunu. And look at these young hackers. Some were caught & went to prison, but it hasn't changed their principles. They are all heroes IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-d5TDHa8jw I'm sure Putin, an ex KGB official, recognizes how dangerous a person like Snowdon is because they also have people, just like him working in their spy networks. I doubt Putin or any other high level official with an Intel component to their government (they all play the spy game) would have any warm fuzzy feelings for this turncoat. They must think this could happen to them. Snowdon may well be the modern equivalent of Philip Nolan from the classic story by Edward Everett Hale "The Man without a country" destined to live out his life in airports or on airplanes flying hither and yon til he dies of old age or by some bizarre accident. (from another Forum) BTW,Putin already told him to desist as long he is on Russian soil! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23135734 Russia's Putin tells Snowden to stop US secrets leak Edward Snowden. File photo Edward Snowden is believed to be staying at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport Russian President Vladimir Putin has told fugitive former CIA-analyst Edward Snowden to stop leaking US secrets if he wants to remain in the country. He said Moscow had never extradited anyone before and "has no intention to do so", adding Mr Snowden was free to go if granted asylum elsewhere. |
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next chapter: anonymous takes on NSA as it should
snowden is a whistleblower and probably did what he did figuring he'd be protected by laws in place that protect whistleblowers (helloooooo anybody home in the brain of washington dc...no?....didn;t think so) where does washington get off thinking it can subvert the legal system by calling a duck an emu and get away with it. snowden should sue washington for harrassment & illegal prosecution it would serve obama right if canada takes him and I think they might ...chin up folks, only 2 more years.....unless we can somehow figure out a way to impeach for this latest travesty.....lol |
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next chapter: anonymous takes on NSA as it should snowden is a whistleblower and probably did what he did figuring he'd be protected by laws in place that protect whistleblowers (helloooooo anybody home in the brain of washington dc...no?....didn;t think so) where does washington get off thinking it can subvert the legal system by calling a duck an emu and get away with it. snowden should sue washington for harrassment & illegal prosecution it would serve obama right if canada takes him and I think they might ...chin up folks, only 2 more years.....unless we can somehow figure out a way to impeach for this latest travesty.....lol It won't take two years...(take it from a duck who knows ... and tell 'em a "little birdie told me" LOL) As for Canada, the existing administration is just a poor, outdated carbon copy of the american administration. With the agreements in place already, Canada would be about the WORST place Snowden could go for asylum, even if it could be granted (which it won't I'm sure) His best bet is either Iceland or Equador. Also concerning Canada, a bunch of Canada Geese I know are fed up with the $h¡t coming out of Ottawa and have dispatched a squadron of "dive bombers" to "return the favour." (If you know geese, you know what I'm talking about) Knowing the geese as I do, they won't miss and Ottawa will soon find itself up to its nose in it. Call it poetic justice, or call it real justice, we all know that what goes around comes around and that people justly get what they first give. I think we all know what the administrations of BOTH countries have been giving us all for a long time now. They are about to get it all back...in spades! |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Mon 07/08/13 12:52 PM
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Well, it seems that Edward Snowden arrived safely in Venezuela after being awarded asylum by that country.
Many think he "fled to avoid prosecution" and it was the wrong thing to do..... but not all think so.... Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S. By Daniel Ellsberg, Published: July 7 "Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don’t agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago." <continue here:> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html |
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