IS It not a neutral country like sweden etc?

ok I am getting mixed up .........forgive me I just waxed my brows and I am not thinking straight!!

neutral like sweeden....hahhahhahahahhahahaa


yes

no wait !!! wasn't amsterdam in SWEEEEEEEEDEN!!!???

Well there you have it Voil, You don't have to concern yourself with my hawkish attitude on Iran because for every one like me there are a hundred guys like Fanta who would lick their boots to keep out of a war. So when you think about how awful the Americans are just think about a peaceful place, maybe with an own hooting in the distance and zombies like Fanta wandering all over the place ready to do international bidding. So there, the US isn't so bad. You can sleep comfortably knowing that most of the Americans really prefer peace to conflict, under any circumstances. Perhaps you might take a minute to update your membership to Move-on.org since propaganda seems to interest you whether it is complete information, incomplete information or simply BS.

Philosopher,

I would have and still would put 300,000 troops into Afghanistan! I have never been against that war, but there was never a need nor a reason to invade Iraq! Thats Bush's war not the American peoples, and has done nothing about eliminating Al Quieda. It has hpwever expanded their base, because before we attacked, Saddam would never have allowed them to operate in Iraq!

Using Nuclear weapons is not war. Its anhilation, and because its not direct there will always be innocent deaths. Nukes are not designed to take out a military force. They are designed to devestate whole populations, to end war by attrition!

Ironically we are the only ones in history to ever use them and judging by the amount we have in inventory the IAEA needs to come inspect ours, and the world should be forcing us to at least reduce our stockpiles!

ECONOMIC SANCTIONS? Are we above what we request of others?

Why do we need so dam many??

PS, I served in the Infantry, and was very good at it! Did you? Or are you just talking about others lives!!!

Philosopher,

I was preparing to counter argue your recent reply to a post of mine, under the impression that this was an open minded and constructive exchange between us, in spite of the fact that we approach the topic from different perspectives.

Given your latest reply to Fanta, I sense a mixed signal.

Are you still interested in an open minded debate where different perspectives are nothing other than the essential raw material, or is your mind made-up, and you are out to discredit and attack anyone whom disagrees with your unwavering positions?

I ask the question in good faith 'philosopher'. The line is fine between speaking one's convictions, while keeping an open mind for the convictions of others, and speaking one's convictions, with the only intent to convince others that yours are the only worthwhile convictions.

Let me know.

Philosopher,

If Fanta is a zombie from your perspective, how would you describe yourself from that same perspective of yours?

Also, since you volunteered this opinion you seem to have about Fanta's character, are you open to hear some opinions on your character?

If a US citizen like Fanta, is considered a 'Zombie' by other US citizens, I would suggest the 'US of A' needs all the ZOMBIES they can gather to save themselves and the planet!!!

Given your definition of 'ZOMBIES' philosopher, as characterized by Fanta, it is clearly the NON-ZOMBIES that pose a serious threat to the planet; much more so than all of the Middle-East population put together.

As a quick solution to this problem, and since you don't seem to have any issues with blowing 'people' up, I would quickly call in our 'trigger happy' 'blow them all up' 'randomX', and give him the 'contract' to 'blow up' all NON-ZOMBIE US CITIZENS.

Given my last count of 'NON-ZOMBIES' US CITIZEN, we wouldn't have to blow up that many!!!

well I hope this administration will not go after iran, they dont have enough time to finish it and iraq. I mean cmon how much of a mess can they leave behind for the next guy

This where an absurd 'one track', 'we're right/they're wrong', 'dogmatic' discourse lads to...

NOWHERE BUT DOWN AND OUT!!!

Pierre Theilhard de Chardin, a respected scietist and philsopher, gave us the inspiring physics and phylosophical thought that:

'... EVERYTHING THAT GOES UP, CONVERGES!!!'

Look up boys!!! Look way way up!!!

I guess I was a little unkind with the last comment I made. Countering my comments would probably be productive actually a I read what you write back and give it consideration. Anyway I'm not so much a hawk as you probably think. I still hold the opinion that Iran is a dangerous place and unnecessarily provocative.

Clearly they are stirring up an arms race in the region and potentially a nuclear arms race. I consider that problematic, dangerous. I have the impression that you consider it just fine because the United States has nuclear weapons and so they have no moral ground to deny them to others, particularly since they actually used two of them in Japan.

I counter that by reminding you that in fact the United States has many and has had for 60 years. In that 60 years none but the first ever developed has been used in war. The supposition that Iran would not use them is without real foundation. Their exporting of violence in the region speaks for itself.

If they continue to foster an arms race in the region it can only go to encourage war. If war in the region is inevitable then might it not be better to go after it before the arms are built up for so many more years and the consequences increase.

Their intolerance of Israel is based on some strange rationalizations. Iran has what to do with Israel after all? Remember that the majority of the Palestinians and the majority of the Iranians are rather young. This has a lot to do with war and other things. Essentially Iran is a country of young adults and children, largely indoctrinated by the mullahs. The Palestinian children are similarly indoctrinated to hate Israel. Now there may be some historical foundation for some of that in the case of the Palestinians, but these children, with a hatred for something they were not around for and did not witness, only have the teachings of an elder group of people with nothing but hatred and no real motivation to teach a two sided history.

So when you want to criticize me for not looking at both sides, you might point the finger in a circle. because adults in the Iran and Palestine are teaching children in Iran and Palestine and they are not teaching a two sided perspective. Ultimately they teach hatred and killing. How long can that kettle boil before things start flying. If you want to blame the US or people like me in the US for a lack of tolerance I'll take exception.

Sometimes life is about rigor. You work towards the things that are important rigorously. Building a stable country living with your neighbors in peace and seeing to the civil rights of the individuals is a way to rigorously improve things. In Iran and Palestine the only thing they seem to do rigorously is hate.

Remember that it takes two people to dance, but only one to fight. You can always refuse when invited to dance, but when you are invited to fight it might be harder to refuse. Iran is inviting us to fight every time it sends another IUD or EFP to Iraq to use against American soldiers. Iran is inviting the world to fight every time it flaunts the nuclear proliferation treaties. Fanta of all people with his criticism of the US for holding nukes should readily step up to the plate with criticism for Iran in this regard. However he does not do so, and instead rallies against the US. That is obviously an unbalanced position, which is part of my complaint in the previous inconsiderate post of mine, that I am not seeing balance.

One issue with your comments, I am not in favor of blowing people up pall mall across Iran or anywhere else. I wouldn't particularly object to taking their military down a notch as a way of encouraging a populist uprising in the country. Hopefully some people with more level minded approaches to governance might rise in their place and some of the financial support of splinter terror groups might diminish.

If you don't think that it is a reasonable to try to get a more more moderate group of Iranians in power, then explain to me why you think it makes sense in the United States only to have the moderates in power.

Two parts to my reply. Two parts and a tid-bit!

First the tid-bit, The number of nukes the US possesses has already been posted on this thread!

For the first part of my reply Id like to start by repeating what you just said.

Now there may be some historical foundation for some of that in the case of the Palestinians, but these children, with a hatred for something they were not around for and did not witness, only have the teachings of an elder group of people with nothing but hatred and no real motivation to teach a two sided history.

Do you not think that watching walls being built around them, like a prison, before their very eyes qualifies as current? Or how about when tanks and armed soldiers push into their streets forcing their fathers to go in front as a shield while they search for armed men! Do you think this makes them any less affected by the hate building than the original thievery of their homeland?

Second part Iran is a dangerous place and unnecessarily provocative. Let me use an analogy.

If your neighbor, who is twice your size, comes into your house pushes you down, kicks you then steals your food (oil), just because he is bigger and has a bigger appetite are you going to forget about it later.

If he moves away for ten or twenty years, then comes back to town and does the same thing to your neighbor, are you going to sit around timidly waiting for him to knock on your door again or are you going to arm yourself?

"The majority of the Iranians are rather young." Yes, but old enough to remember fighting the Iraqis when they were children with sticks. Thousands of them died to protect their homeland when the US allied with, and used the Iraqis to attack them, because it suited our goals at the time!

You expect everyone to forget the wrongs and crimes committed by our government without us apologizing, or showing anything less than the same shameless self imposing greed that we did then!

Good luck with that approach. I dont think it will work any better now than it did in the past! The Iranians are smarter than that. They have seen by example that the only sure way to keep us from attacking them is by arming themselves properly and with sufficient strength! Nukes worked for the Russians and the N Koreans, so Nukes it is!

xxx thanks Glen


that was the part that got me the worst...children don't need to be indoctrinated to hate the israelis..it comes easily enough naturally...

i have a profound love and respect for the Jews...but you can lock up most israelis and i'll never complain!!

ALL WAR IS SCARY!!! TO THINK THAT WE AS HUMANS, IN THIS DAY AND AGE, FEEL IT NECESSARY TO KILL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING TO GET WHAT WE WANT........GREED.....****ING GREED!!! RELIGION!!!! ISNT IT WHAT MOST WARS ARE ABOUT???

IT MAKES ME SICK....WITH ALL OF OUR KNOWLEDGE AND WE STILL CANT FIGURE OUT THAT WAR DOESNT SOLVE PROBLEMS.........

Thank you ladies!!

Fanta, your analogy is poorly considered, poorly constructed and ignores important facts. The following commentary suggesting it is time for Iran to arm itself with nukes is completely absurd, like many other comments you have made.

Besides that Nukes did not do North Korea any good. Its people are starving proletariats with no hope for the future except that glorious leader will choke on his own bile and die. If they had found a peace and fair trade with their neighbor to the south they would be enormously prosperous and have plenty to eat.

Iran could live without a weapon one at this point and all the countries around them would be happy to be their friends. Countries would come from all over the world do trade with them.

Also suggesting that Iran should have nukes points out the fact that it is in fact you, who is the war monger, not me. As usual Fanta, your logic is simply twisted. Tried to be nice.