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Topic: Why do people believe in God ?
Deep_Joy's photo
Mon 06/01/15 02:14 AM
Edited by Deep_Joy on Mon 06/01/15 02:15 AM
It��s a very complex question. I am not saying that there is no God; neither have I seen him or her. How do we learn about God? A baby has no Idea of God, when he or she takes birth. When he or she grows up, perhaps it��s their parents who teach them about God��s existence .We start believing in God; just because someone says that there is a God. Either parents or the Bishop, or the religious leader... there are so many people. We start believe in God, because someone claimed that God has told him personally to spread his words. We have never seen him, nor did we ever hear his words directly.
Then why we should believe that there is God?

mashkrish91's photo
Mon 06/01/15 04:12 AM
People believe in God(or god) because it is easier and convenient.Also from an evolutionary point of view it is beneficial

no photo
Mon 06/01/15 04:23 AM
Edited by IamwhoIam1 on Mon 06/01/15 05:14 AM
According to the Old Testament, there were 3 million people who firsthand witnessed and heard God speak at Mount Sinai during the giving of the Ten Commandments to Moses, experiencing national revelation over 3,300 years ago. God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai to serve as the moral code of behavior for the human race.

"God did not just appear to Moses in a private rendezvous. He appeared to everyone, some 3 million people. This claim is mentioned many times in the Torah (The Old Testament)."

[Moses told the Israelites]: 'Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Horev [Mount Sinai]...

God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13)

'You have been shown in order to know that God, He is the Supreme Being. There is none besides Him. From heaven he let you hear His voice in order to teach you, and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words amid the fire.' (Deut. 4:32-36)

Moses called all of Israel and said to them: 'Hear, O Israel, the decrees and the ordinances that I speak in your ears today� -- learn them, and be careful to perform them. The Lord your God sealed a covenant with us at Horev [Mount Sinai]. Not with our forefathers did God seal this covenant, but with us -- we who are here, all of us alive today. Face to face did God speak with you on the mountain from amid the fire.' (Deut. 5:1-4)

Would you believe someone who claims to have received a personal communication from God appointing him or her as God's new prophet?

Maybe He did. Then again, maybe He didn't. One can never know. The claim is inherently unverifiable.

Personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion since one can never know if it is indeed true. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show, assuming they are genuine, is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Moshe ben Maimon ("Maimonides") was a revered and preeminent medieval Sephardic Jewish philosopher, astronomer and one of the most prolific and influential Torah scholars and physicians of the Middle Ages.

Maimonides writes:

Israel did not believe in Moses, our teacher, on account of the miracles he performed. For when one's faith is based on miracles, doubt remains in the mind that these miracles may have been done through the occult and witchcraft...

What then were the grounds of believing him? The revelation on Sinai which we saw with our own eyes, and heard with our own ears, not having to depend on the testimony of others... (Mishna Torah - Foundations of Torah 8:1)

Let's summarize two primary questions:

1. Out of 15,000 known religions in recorded history, why is Judaism the only one that claims national revelation, the best of all claims? Why does it claim that national revelation will never happen again? How did it know? Why do all other religions base themselves on the inherently weak assertion of personal revelation?

2. If Judaism's claim is indeed an example of a successful hoax that falsely asserts national revelation, the author just got away with passing off the best possible claim, and others will certainly follow suit. Why then would he predict that no one else will ever make a similar claim, a prediction he knows he cannot foresee, and whose outcome is likely to be the exact opposite?

There is one simple answer to both questions. A national revelation, as opposed to personal revelation, is the one lie you cannot get away with. It is one event you cannot fabricate. The only way to make this claim is if it actually happened. Only Judaism can claim national revelation since the Jewish people is the only nation in the history of mankind who ever experienced it.

Furthermore, it is interesting to note that the other major religions of the world both accept the Jewish revelation at Sinai, including the Five Books of Moses in their Bible, and hold the Sinai revelation as a key component of their religion.

When starting their own religions, why did they build upon the Jewish claim? Why didn't they just deny the revelation ever happened?

The answer is that they knew that if national revelation can never be fabricated; so too, its validity can therefore never be denied.

Now it is understandable how the Author of the Torah can confidently predict that there will never be another claim of national revelation in history.

Because only God knew it would happen only once, as it did --- at Sinai over 3,000 years ago.

Read more here:

http://www.aish.com/jl/p/ph/Did_God_Speak_at_Sinai.html?mobile=yes



Annierooroo's photo
Mon 06/01/15 04:39 AM
This is why I believe in God. from the age of 4 to 16 I went to an open brethren church where I learnt the bible stories. Even as a kid I could feel his present around me protecting and providing for me. I was living with a guy.We ad a daughter. We broke up when I was 20, my daughter was only 1. During this time I was not going to church with others but I returned back to God because I was the worst time of my life, a young girl with a baby, no job, and no goals in life. I never wanted to be a solo mum not because I had a negative issue with it but because I believe a child needed two parents at home. When I turned 23 I went to this church with my daughter for the first 8 years I had learnt a lot more about God. He showed many things and told me things that would happen. When the church went into a control environment where I was told and demanded what I should me doing and how I should be bringing up my children (by this stage I was married and had another two children). I ended up in hospital with major pains in my chest. I asked my husband to call for help. his reply was NO you do it. I was admitted in.During the year before I recall very little, it seemed a blur. I called out to the Lord for guidance. He led me and my son out of it. The people robbed my home, kidnap my youngest daughter and brainwashed my oldest. Accused me of abusing my second daughter and lied to the authorities. Throughout this time I had only God to hang on to. If I didn't leave when I did they were planning to kidnapped my son. We moved to where my family is and started over again. It was hard, sometimes we didn't have food. I would pray all the time, food, clothes and money showed up. No one knew what was happening in our home we kept it very quiet. My sons rowing was paid for and that is not a cheap sport but he needed something to keep him of the streets. Through this sport he had plenty of good male role models. I went to uni to train as a teacher. Both my daughters have returned to me like the Lord had told me they would. We are a close family because of what we have been through.
This is why I believe, this is my story.

Kaustuv1's photo
Mon 06/01/15 04:40 AM

It��s a very complex question. I am not saying that there is no God; neither have I seen him or her. How do we learn about God? A baby has no Idea of God, when he or she takes birth. When he or she grows up, perhaps it��s their parents who teach them about God��s existence .We start believing in God; just because someone says that there is a God. Either parents or the Bishop, or the religious leader... there are so many people. We start believe in God, because someone claimed that God has told him personally to spread his words. We have never seen him, nor did we ever hear his words directly.
Then why we should believe that there is God?





Absence of 'evidence' shouldn't necessitate the 'wise' to infer an evidence of 'absence'!:smile:

no photo
Mon 06/01/15 05:06 AM
Read more here:

Age of the Universe


15 Billion Years or Six Days?

Today, we look back in time. We see 15 billion years. Looking forward from when the universe is very small - billions of times smaller - the Torah [The Bible] says six days. They both may be correct.

What's exciting about the last few years in cosmology is we now have quantified the data to know the relationship of the "view of time" from the beginning, relative to the "view of time" today. It's not science fiction any longer. Any one of a dozen physics text books all bring the same number. The general relationship between time near the beginning when stable matter formed from the light (the energy, the electromagnetic radiation of the creation) and time today is a million million, that is a trillion fold extension. That's a 1 with 12 zeros after it. It is a unit-less ratio. So when a view from the beginning looking forward says "I'm sending you a pulse every second," would we see it every second? No. We'd see it every million million seconds. Because that's the stretching effect of the expansion of the universe. In astronomy, the term is "red shift." Red shift in observed astronomical data is standard.

The Torah doesn't say every second, does it? It says Six Days. How would we see those six days? If the Torah says we're sending information for six days, would we receive that information as six days? No. We would receive that information as six million million days. Because the Torah's perspective is from the beginning looking forward.

Six million million days is a very interesting number. What would that be in years? Divide by 365 and it comes out to be 16 billion years. Essentially the estimate of the age of the universe. Not a bad guess for 3300 years ago.

The way these two figures match up is extraordinary. I'm not speaking as a theologian; I'm making a scientific claim. I didn't pull these numbers out of a hat. That's why I led up to the explanation very slowly, so you can follow it step-by-step.

Now we can go one step further. Let's look at the development of time, day-by-day, based on the expansion factor. Every time the universe doubles, the perception of time is cut in half. Now when the universe was small, it was doubling very rapidly. But as the universe gets bigger, the doubling time gets longer. This rate of expansion is quoted in "The Principles of Physical Cosmology," a textbook that is used literally around the world.

(In case you want to know, this exponential rate of expansion has a specific number averaged at 10 to the 12th power. That is in fact the temperature of quark confinement, when matter freezes out of the energy: 10.9 times 10 to the 12th power Kelvin degrees divided by (or the ratio to) the temperature of the universe today, 2.73 degrees. That's the initial ratio which changes exponentially as the universe expands.)

The calculations come out to be as follows:

1. The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years.

2. The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years.

3. The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years.

4. The fourth 24 hour day - one billion years.

5. The fifth 24 hour day - one-half billion years.

6. The sixth 24 hour day - one-quarter billion years.

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

But there's more. The Bible goes out on a limb and tells you what happened on each of those days. Now you can take cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world, and see whether or not they match up day-by-day. And I'll give you a hint. They match up close enough to send chills up your spine.

Kaustuv1's photo
Mon 06/01/15 05:32 AM
'The Real Reasons People Believe in God': Believers' Reasons for Religion, Theism [By Austin Cline - Agnosticism/Atheism Expert]







Some religious theists think it is appropriate to presume to inform atheists about why they really don't believe in any gods rather than simply listen to atheists in order to learn something. Perhaps atheists should instruct theists why they actually believe in gods. Theists offer all sorts of reasons for why they believe in a god but the only respectable reason is one which, if proven false, would at the very least cause them to seriously reconsider their belief and perhaps drop it entirely. I've never seen a religious theist do this, perhaps because the reasons below are more true than they would like to admit.



1. Indoctrination into Religion


Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even? The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?



2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry



If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your god are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see the constant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in God and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.



3. Peer & Family Pressure



Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.



4. Fear of Death



Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a god through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.



5. Wishful Thinking



The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a god which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.



6. Fear of Freedom & Responsibility



One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because God will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because God will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because God has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because God has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.



7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning



Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their god and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.





flowerforyou

anthony0494's photo
Mon 06/01/15 05:54 AM
Most people are taught from a very young age that there is a god. Those that either continue to choose to believe in that theory or don't possess the mind power to investigate and make their own decisions, continue believing it into adulthood. I was taught this theory at a young age, but when I entered into adulthood, I chose to believe in what can be seen and proven from a scientific point of view. A lot of people like to believe in some type of faith-based religion and if that works for you, if it makes you a happier, more content human being, then it's beneficial. I am an atheist but I always respect what people believe or don't believe in.

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 06/01/15 05:59 AM
Or maybe, that God touched their heart and they never let go. And continued their life in search of more knowledge about God.

Annierooroo's photo
Mon 06/01/15 06:14 AM

Or maybe, that God touched their heart and they never let go. And continued their life in search of more knowledge about God.


Amen to this.

no photo
Tue 06/02/15 02:51 AM

Or maybe, that God touched their heart and they never let go. And continued their life in search of more knowledge about God.


could not agree more...

no photo
Tue 06/02/15 03:11 AM
Kaustuv, I'm surprised you shared that. I thought you believed in God.

Deep_Joy's photo
Wed 06/03/15 02:56 AM
Edited by Deep_Joy on Wed 06/03/15 03:20 AM

Read more here:

Age of the Universe


15 Billion Years or Six Days?

Today, we look back in time. We see 15 billion years. Looking forward from when the universe is very small - billions of times smaller - the Torah [The Bible] says six days. They both may be correct.

What's exciting about the last few years in cosmology is we now have quantified the data to know the relationship of the "view of time" from the beginning, relative to the "view of time" today. It's not science fiction any longer. Any one of a dozen physics text books all bring the same number. The general relationship between time near the beginning when stable matter formed from the light (the energy, the electromagnetic radiation of the creation) and time today is a million million, that is a trillion fold extension. That's a 1 with 12 zeros after it. It is a unit-less ratio. So when a view from the beginning looking forward says "I'm sending you a pulse every second," would we see it every second? No. We'd see it every million million seconds. Because that's the stretching effect of the expansion of the universe. In astronomy, the term is "red shift." Red shift in observed astronomical data is standard.

The Torah doesn't say every second, does it? It says Six Days. How would we see those six days? If the Torah says we're sending information for six days, would we receive that information as six days? No. We would receive that information as six million million days. Because the Torah's perspective is from the beginning looking forward.

Six million million days is a very interesting number. What would that be in years? Divide by 365 and it comes out to be 16 billion years. Essentially the estimate of the age of the universe. Not a bad guess for 3300 years ago.

The way these two figures match up is extraordinary. I'm not speaking as a theologian; I'm making a scientific claim. I didn't pull these numbers out of a hat. That's why I led up to the explanation very slowly, so you can follow it step-by-step.

Now we can go one step further. Let's look at the development of time, day-by-day, based on the expansion factor. Every time the universe doubles, the perception of time is cut in half. Now when the universe was small, it was doubling very rapidly. But as the universe gets bigger, the doubling time gets longer. This rate of expansion is quoted in "The Principles of Physical Cosmology," a textbook that is used literally around the world.

(In case you want to know, this exponential rate of expansion has a specific number averaged at 10 to the 12th power. That is in fact the temperature of quark confinement, when matter freezes out of the energy: 10.9 times 10 to the 12th power Kelvin degrees divided by (or the ratio to) the temperature of the universe today, 2.73 degrees. That's the initial ratio which changes exponentially as the universe expands.)

The calculations come out to be as follows:

1. The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years.

2. The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years.

3. The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years.

4. The fourth 24 hour day - one billion years.

5. The fifth 24 hour day - one-half billion years.

6. The sixth 24 hour day - one-quarter billion years.

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

But there's more. The Bible goes out on a limb and tells you what happened on each of those days. Now you can take cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world, and see whether or not they match up day-by-day. And I'll give you a hint. They match up close enough to send chills up your spine.





If, 10 years later , science discovers that the Universe is 400 trillion years old, how would you divide ( rather explain ) those six day ? :tongue:

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:34 AM
How do you propose that they had given testimonials, via computer or video tape? How many were even literate?

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:36 AM
They passed down the national revelation through word of mouth through the generations, to their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and so forth. But after 150 generations, that is hard to keep going.

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:39 AM
Deep_Joy, that has not happened so your point is moot.

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:43 AM
Edited by Pansytilly on Wed 06/03/15 04:44 AM

It��s a very complex question. I am not saying that there is no God; neither have I seen him or her. How do we learn about God? A baby has no Idea of God, when he or she takes birth. When he or she grows up, perhaps it��s their parents who teach them about God��s existence .We start believing in God; just because someone says that there is a God. Either parents or the Bishop, or the religious leader... there are so many people. We start believe in God, because someone claimed that God has told him personally to spread his words. We have never seen him, nor did we ever hear his words directly.
Then why we should believe that there is God?


This is like asking, " why should people believe in love? "... Its not so complex... You just do or you dont, based on your experience and wanting.

Asking "why" is irrelevant.

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:45 AM
Word of mouth is how it was done. Too bad you weren't there to advise them.

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 04:57 AM
Read more here:

http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/bible-faqs/who-wrote-the-bible

Who Wrote the Bible?

Many people contributed to the writing of the Bible. In fact, the Bible is a diverse collection of writings from about 40 main contributors—30 in the Old Testament and 10 in the New Testament.

Some books are actually collections of writings from several authors, not just one. For example, while many people think of David when they think of the book of Psalms, there are individual psalms attributed to Moses, Asaph, a man named Ethan, and the sons of Korah.

Old Testament authors

The accounts preserved in the Old Testament—also known as the First Testament or Hebrew Scriptures—go back thousands of years. They were written down and communicated orally. Many regard Moses as the primary human author of the first five books of the Bible, known as the Torah. Regardless of the role others may have played in compiling the Torah, it’s thought that Moses ensured the narratives, genealogies, and law codes were collected and retold faithfully in these five books (which are, after all, known by many Jewish people as the “five books of Moses”).

As already mentioned, David is considered the main human author of the Psalms, though others contributed too. David’s son, King Solomon, is credited with writing or inspiring much of Bible’s wisdom literature (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, etc.).

The First Testament also contains oracles from prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, and others. Many of these messages were delivered in person—shouted from street corners, spoken in front of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, or pronounced in the royal courts of Israel and Judah. Only later were these oracles written down, often by the prophets themselves or by their scribes.

As time passed, all these writings were collected together into the First Testament. The Jewish people received them as divinely inspired Scripture.

New Testament authors

The New Testament consists of stories, teachings, and letters that circulated among the first Christian churches. Letters from apostles like Paul and Peter are among the earliest writings in the New Testament. These letters were meant to be read aloud by communities of believers in specific locations. After the recipients heard the message intended for them, they often memorized it and shared it with neighboring Christian communities.

Luke and Acts, a two-volume series on the life of Jesus and the early church, was penned by a physician named Luke, who was also a traveling companion to the apostle Paul. The gospel of Matthew is popularly attributed to a tax collector variously known as Levi or Matthew—though given its content, some think it was written by someone with more training in the Hebrew Scriptures. Mark’s gospel is thought to record the memoirs of Peter, as told through the pen of John Mark. The gospel of John was written by one of Jesus’ closest disciples, giving us an eyewitness account of the Messiah's life.

Not just any book, not just any author.

Of course, for Christians, the Bible is more than just a human book. It is the authoritative, written Word of God. Through this ancient collection of books, God speaks into our world, revealing who he is and how he’s at work—then and now—repairing all that is broken. God did not simply give dictation to the human authors of Scripture; their contribution is real. Their personalities, perspectives, and writing styles are all discernable in the text—as are the unique situations and circumstances of those to whom they were writing. Yet God’s universal message is present from Genesis to Revelation.

It is truly amazing that God used so many people to tell his big story, one that transcends language, culture, and time. The Bible is a diverse collection of literature, yet it contains a unified message of redemption and renewal. God has given us a Bible that’s fully human and fully divine—fully inspired by his Spirit and fully a product of the world in which it was written.

no photo
Wed 06/03/15 05:02 AM
I was force fed religion when I was a kid.
I'm not criticizing my parents as it was felt by them that it was their duty.

But I do wonder sometimes if some ancient equivalent of Charles Dickens wrote a book and it all got out of hand.


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