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| Topic: Jesus is being "culturised" so to speak | |
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yes, Jesus never declared he was God
he did speak ABOUT God, however and in LUKE , he rebuked the devils reasoning that if he jumped from the mountain God Would save him saying HE Would not tempt God that way,,, ,,but again,, all these things are highly subjective in interpretation, possibly because the issue did not hold much significance with Jesus or God |
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yes, Jesus never declared he was God he did speak ABOUT God, however and in LUKE , he rebuked the devils reasoning that if he jumped from the mountain God Would save him saying HE Would not tempt God that way,,, ,,but again,, all these things are highly subjective in interpretation, possibly because the issue did not hold much significance with Jesus or God Sorry for the repeat of verse reference. But since you said once again he never claimed to be God. Luke 4:12 12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus said you will not tempt the Lord YOUR God... claiming right there he's your God, he proclaiming the LORD is "your" God. *sorry if may seem as I may be, but I truly am not arguing or anything negative as such. |
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would like to point out that in the OT when Moses fled egypt, it was God that brought them out of egypt.
Numbers 15:41 41 I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the Lord your God. And proclaiming the Lord to be God. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 10:55 AM
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yes, Jesus never declared he was God he did speak ABOUT God, however and in LUKE , he rebuked the devils reasoning that if he jumped from the mountain God Would save him saying HE Would not tempt God that way,,, ,,but again,, all these things are highly subjective in interpretation, possibly because the issue did not hold much significance with Jesus or God Sorry for the repeat of verse reference. But since you said once again he never claimed to be God. Luke 4:12 12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus said you will not tempt the Lord YOUR God... claiming right there he's your God, he proclaiming the LORD is "your" God. *sorry if may seem as I may be, but I truly am not arguing or anything negative as such. again, its a title used here( A Lord is a master),, God is Lord, Jesus is also Lord they are equal in status of Lord(master), but there is only one GOD I would liken it to modern times how pastors are often called 'Father' though God is our only 'FATHER' in heaven in Luke, the Devil keeps trying to get Jesus to prove he is the Son of God by asking him to do things that show God protecting him as such Jesus continues to respond with biblical doctrine which is usually preceded by Jesus stating 'it is said' or 'it is written' it is written not to tempt God, which Jesus would be doing if he jumped off a mountain expecting God to save him |
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yes, Jesus never declared he was God he did speak ABOUT God, however and in LUKE , he rebuked the devils reasoning that if he jumped from the mountain God Would save him saying HE Would not tempt God that way,,, ,,but again,, all these things are highly subjective in interpretation, possibly because the issue did not hold much significance with Jesus or God Sorry for the repeat of verse reference. But since you said once again he never claimed to be God. Luke 4:12 12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus said you will not tempt the Lord YOUR God... claiming right there he's your God, he proclaiming the LORD is "your" God. *sorry if may seem as I may be, but I truly am not arguing or anything negative as such. again, its a title used here,, God is Lord, Jesus is also Lord they are equal in status of Lord, but there is only one GOD in Luke, the Devil keeps trying to get Jesus to prove he is the Son of God by asking him to do things that show God protecting him as such Jesus continues to respond with biblical doctrine which is usually preceded by Jesus stating 'it is said' or 'it is written' it is written not to tempt God, which Jesus would be doing if he jumped off a mountain expecting God to save him I beg to differ msharmony. Jesus Christ is Lord of lords Deuteronomy 10:17 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: Every reference or mention of Lord God, is in reference of Jesus. Thus the difference between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. 1 says God did this or that, 2 says Lord God did this or that and resorts to doing/saying the same things accomplished. Then later on Jesus confirms this with saying John 5:17 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. |
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yes, Jesus never declared he was God he did speak ABOUT God, however and in LUKE , he rebuked the devils reasoning that if he jumped from the mountain God Would save him saying HE Would not tempt God that way,,, ,,but again,, all these things are highly subjective in interpretation, possibly because the issue did not hold much significance with Jesus or God Sorry for the repeat of verse reference. But since you said once again he never claimed to be God. Luke 4:12 12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus said you will not tempt the Lord YOUR God... claiming right there he's your God, he proclaiming the LORD is "your" God. *sorry if may seem as I may be, but I truly am not arguing or anything negative as such. again, its a title used here( A Lord is a master),, God is Lord, Jesus is also Lord they are equal in status of Lord(master), but there is only one GOD I would liken it to modern times how pastors are often called 'Father' though God is our only 'FATHER' in heaven in Luke, the Devil keeps trying to get Jesus to prove he is the Son of God by asking him to do things that show God protecting him as such Jesus continues to respond with biblical doctrine which is usually preceded by Jesus stating 'it is said' or 'it is written' it is written not to tempt God, which Jesus would be doing if he jumped off a mountain expecting God to save him again, its a title used here( A Lord is a master),, God is Lord, Jesus is also Lord They both are titles, Lord and God. Lord means ruler God means being of authority. Thus why we are referenced as gods "ye are gods and children of the most high". And why Jesus is God of gods. Yet there is only one God. That is Jesus Christ, for again he only refers to "his father" as just that while he's in the flesh on Earth after he leaves his glory behind and comes in the form of a servant. |
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I understand
bottom line is we have different interpretations if I say ''King of kings', that means there is actually more than ONE king if I say 'Lord of Lords' that means there is actually more than ONE Lord Jesus and God are both Lords (masters) because Jesus has the authority of God but THE God (the God of Gods) is my creator, of which there is only one Jesus was not my creator, but he is as much master as my creator is ,,,imho |
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I understand bottom line is we have different interpretations if I say ''King of kings', that means there is actually more than ONE king if I say 'Lord of Lords' that means there is actually more than ONE Lord Jesus and God are both Lords (masters) because Jesus has the authority of God but THE God (the God of Gods) is my creator, of which there is only one Jesus was not my creator, but he is as much master as my creator is ,,,imho Jeremiah 1 4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. I'm sorry you don't feel as if the Lord created you, because he certainly claimed to have created this person. And further then that says right here "all" things were created by him. And obviously in reference to Jesus as it says "redemption through his blood" 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 11:10 AM
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I never stated the Lord did not create me
I stated that Lord is a title for a 'master', similar to 'father' being a head of a family,, and is used in many contexts the Lord GOD created me, the Lord Jesus Christ did not,, for he too is Gods Creation and given the authority and wisdom of God to sit at Gods right hand Colossians 3:1 Verse Concepts Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Hebrews 1:3 Verse Concepts And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Hebrews 12:2 Verse Concepts fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 1 Peter 3:22 Verse Concepts who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. Ephesians 1:20-21 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. Romans 8:34 Verse Concepts who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. |
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I never stated the Lord did not create me I stated that Lord is a title for a 'master', similar to 'father' being a head of a family,, and is used in many contexts the Lord GOD created me, the Lord Jesus Christ did not,, for he too is Gods Creation and given the authority and wisdom of God to sit at Gods right hand Msharmony, Lord God is Jesus Christ. Thus again the reason for genesis 1 and 2. One saying God did this or that, then genesis 2 saying the same thing basically just saying LORD God did this or that. And the purpose Jesus is referenced as the LORD... see the connection? And the reason Jesus mentioned multiple times "I am the Lord who..." |
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you believe Lord God is Jesus Christ
I believe Lord is title for a Master I believe that God is THEE master who created all I believe Jesus Christ is the master whom God created |
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I never stated the Lord did not create me I stated that Lord is a title for a 'master', similar to 'father' being a head of a family,, and is used in many contexts the Lord GOD created me, the Lord Jesus Christ did not,, for he too is Gods Creation and given the authority and wisdom of God to sit at Gods right hand Colossians 3:1 Verse Concepts Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Hebrews 1:3 Verse Concepts And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Hebrews 12:2 Verse Concepts fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 1 Peter 3:22 Verse Concepts who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. Ephesians 1:20-21 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. Romans 8:34 Verse Concepts who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Yes also keep in mind when it says just "God" in this context it's referencing Jesus' father. Remember there are two, and both are called God. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God. But also keep in mind Jesus is God of Gods. Of course while he was on Earth in the flesh he referenced his father as his God because he left his glory behind and came in the FORM of a servant. But he returned to his righteousness and was and is God of gods. There is no name higher then Jesus' name. He is the top God. He is emmanuel, God with us. |
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you believe Lord God is Jesus Christ I believe Lord is title for a Master I believe that God is THEE master who created all I believe Jesus Christ is the master whom God created If Lord God isn't Jesus, then what is the purpose for the usage of both terms in OT and Jesus continuously stating he is "Lord"... even to the extent of he is Lord that brought us out of Egypt? And at that, who is LORD God referenced in the OT then? Especially again in Genesis 1 and 2 where it uses both different terms? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 11:20 AM
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Lord God is MASTER God
they are seperate , but both Master is where we are in agreement,, the use of words 'Lord' or 'God' will be a matter of interpretion |
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Lord God is MASTER God they are seperate , but both Master is where we are in agreement,, the use of words 'Lord' or 'God' will be a matter of interpretion Jeremiah 32:26-27 26 Then came the word of the Lord unto Jeremiah, saying, 27 Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me? Seems like the Lord eg., Jesus thought himself to be God of all flesh. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 11:30 AM
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Lord God is MASTER God they are seperate , but both Master is where we are in agreement,, the use of words 'Lord' or 'God' will be a matter of interpretion Jeremiah 32:26-27 26 Then came the word of the Lord unto Jeremiah, saying, 27 Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me? Seems like the Lord eg., Jesus thought himself to be God of all flesh. seems like God spoke to someone in the bible(after they prayed) and referred to himself as the Master(Lord) |
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Lord God is MASTER God they are seperate , but both Master is where we are in agreement,, the use of words 'Lord' or 'God' will be a matter of interpretion Jeremiah 32:26-27 26 Then came the word of the Lord unto Jeremiah, saying, 27 Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me? Seems like the Lord eg., Jesus thought himself to be God of all flesh. seems like God spoke to someone in the bible(after they prayed) and referred to himself as the Master(Lord) Why would God use different terms for himself? That would only lead to possible confusion. And so why does Jesus reference himself as the Lord through out the NT. Even Lord of Lords, ect. Many different references of Jesus being Lord even outside of the Lord of lords God of gods ect. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 11:42 AM
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as stated before
of Course God didn't refer to himself with any of the english words we read in our Bible but one of the english words that were used for translation was 'Lord' which(as happens in english) is used in more than one context God most likely referenced that he is THEE MASTER, which he is,,, he also instructs that servants should listen to their 'masters', so he was not the only master but he was the master OF the masters, and everyone else maybe this will help with putting in context the way the original words translated into the words we now read: In an attempt to represent the Hebrew term for God in the Bible, scholars have taken to using English words with different capitalization. In addition, different translations use the terms in different ways. To make matters worse, translators have tried to respect the Hebrew tradition of not spelling out God's name. Here are a few of the terms used in the Bible and what they refer to in the original Hebrew. LORD or LORD: This spelling is usually used when God's proper name is meant. The Hebrew, without vowels, is YHWH. Other translations are Yahweh or Jehovah. Lord: "Lord" or "lord" in the Old Testament merely refers to someone of a higher rank (Genesis 18:12), including the pre-incarnate Christ, if the speaker isn't aware of His identity (Genesis 18:3). If the translation used William Tyndale's suggestion, the Hebrew Adonai was translated as "Lord" to distinguish it from YHWH. In the New Testament, "Lord" is the Greek kurios, which simply means master, whether referring to God (Matthew 1:20), Jesus (Matthew 7:21), or a general authority (Matthew 18:27). GOD: "God" is an old English word which may have its origins in the Proto-Indo-European word ghu, which means to pour a libation. In the Bible, it is used for the Hebrew Elohim, which just means god, but since God is the only true god, it's an appropriate identifier. The prefix of Elohim, "el," is used in many proper names. Elohim is also related to the Arabic Allah. "God" in the New Testament is the Greek theos, which means any deity. https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=no+masters&qs_version=KJV of course, there are differences in interpretations, and this is not the ONLY explanation or answer, but it sits right in my brain and my soul |
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as stated before of Course God didn't refer to himself with any of the english words we read in our Bible but one of the english words that were used for translation was 'Lord' which(as happens in english) is used in more than one context God most likely referenced that he is THEE MASTER, which he is,,, he also instructs that servants should listen to their 'masters', so he was not the only master but he was the master OF the masters, and everyone else maybe this will help with putting in context the way the original words translated into the words we now read: In an attempt to represent the Hebrew term for God in the Bible, scholars have taken to using English words with different capitalization. In addition, different translations use the terms in different ways. To make matters worse, translators have tried to respect the Hebrew tradition of not spelling out God's name. Here are a few of the terms used in the Bible and what they refer to in the original Hebrew. LORD or LORD: This spelling is usually used when God's proper name is meant. The Hebrew, without vowels, is YHWH. Other translations are Yahweh or Jehovah. Lord: "Lord" or "lord" in the Old Testament merely refers to someone of a higher rank (Genesis 18:12), including the pre-incarnate Christ, if the speaker isn't aware of His identity (Genesis 18:3). If the translation used William Tyndale's suggestion, the Hebrew Adonai was translated as "Lord" to distinguish it from YHWH. In the New Testament, "Lord" is the Greek kurios, which simply means master, whether referring to God (Matthew 1:20), Jesus (Matthew 7:21), or a general authority (Matthew 18:27). GOD: "God" is an old English word which may have its origins in the Proto-Indo-European word ghu, which means to pour a libation. In the Bible, it is used for the Hebrew Elohim, which just means god, but since God is the only true god, it's an appropriate identifier. The prefix of Elohim, "el," is used in many proper names. Elohim is also related to the Arabic Allah. "God" in the New Testament is the Greek theos, which means any deity. https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=no+masters&qs_version=KJV of course, there are differences in interpretations, and this is not the ONLY explanation or answer, but it sits right in my brain and my soul To make matters worse, translators have tried to respect the Hebrew tradition of not spelling out God's name. So who then is Lord God and God in genesis 1 and 2. I already knew bout he not spelling God's name as it's to holy to say. And yes it is just an integram or whatever that word is lol, because the greeks didn't have vowels in their alphabet. But more to the point, who is the two different entities and reference of God and Lord God in Gen 1 and 2 then? And if one is not Jesus, why did Jesus say where the father works so have I. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 01/18/17 11:55 AM
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The Master God, or 'just' God, are both the same, the CREATOR
as to Jesus , being the perfect representation for God, he would be mirroring and duplicating Gods will and Gods works,,, though Im not sure what verse you are referencing |
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