An observation/philosophy of mine:

If you look at the Universe you will notice that it is "Taking" by nature.
Love goes against the nature of the Universe in its capacity to "Give".

Lemme explain...

The Universe consumes, invades, pulls, eats, condenses and so on.
Life itself exists in a constant state of consumption.
Even your own cells consume until they burst and divide.
Stars consume until they burst. Plants and animals consume (eat).
Even a pregnant woman consumes to produce a baby (a product of consumption).
Everywhere you look something is consuming or invading something else.

People have a capacity to give.
They give, provide, create and so on.
That ability to give is the essence of what we call love.

You may say that stars give light and warmth but those are merely product of consumption too.
In a way, the act of giving love is also an act of consumption.
If you give love as a means to get love.
But people go beyond that and love with no desire to get. They give with no intention of getting anything in return.

That giving, is not natural. It makes love unique to the Universe because it goes against its nature.

Well, it's obviously a matter of interpretation. And I know it sounds like a semantics game, but it really isn't, when I point out that love IS part of nature. If it weren't, then it wouldn't have existed until after humans started creating artificial constructs.

One thing your idea is well worth pursuing for, though, is that you do point up how lots of people take the NATURAL part or version of love, and mess it up by adding ON, artificial notions about what it means and what we have to do or not do because of it.

Tom, I hear what you are saying, and a lot of it makes sense to me.

I'm not so sure about the concept of genuine "altruistic" love that I believe you are describing as far as those who love without expecting anything in return.

My understanding of altruistic love is one who is completely void of ego in all senses. I question if that truly exists in our stage of evolving as humans/spiritual beings. I know there are those who do give without intentionally seeking in return, but I think on some level, if they are getting a good feeling about themselves for doing the right thing, then that isn't genuine altruistic love, because our inner spirit is getting fed by being that way. So wouldn't that go along with nature, rather than against it?

edited in spiritual beings.

I wasn't saying it wasn't part of nature, at least I don't think I did?
I could be against the human race but still be part of it.

I am saying that love is an opposite to the nature of the Universe.

What brought on this philosophy today was while I was laying in bed waking I was thinking of ideas for a new story. Since my stories usually involve some form of science fiction, I try to look at things from what I imagine an alien perspective might be.

The Universe is huge, bigger and more diverse than we can imagine. With our limited understanding we think that the Universe operates on a consuming standard. Even gravity consumes matter (Black Holes gobble up entire stars).

So I'm laying there and thinking of all the ways that the Universe consumes and it occurred to me that no matter what I imagined, I could follow its existence or hypothetical existence to a consumption. I racked my brain for an example of the opposite in nature to this universal observation.
I came up with Love.

In my mind I wanted to construct a future where humans come into contact with a superior alien civilization and we introduce a foreign concept to them that changes their own view of the Universe. I concluded that in a Universe based on consumption, Love and the giving inherent to it, could change their thinking. It creates an alliance which starts a revolution in all alien species contacted.

I posted this in Philosophy/Science because I was wanting views on how unique Love is to the nature of the Universe.

Even on this planet, Love is unique in nature. Sure, animals have mating techniques and rear their young but there is no indication that it is because of Love. More readily observed as replication and preservation of the species. Bacteria do that.

Since we have no baseline representation of life except on our own little planet in this vast Universe, we have no idea if Love is a universal phenomenon or a unique creation of our species. Given our limited observations, Love is unique even on this one planet.

DISCLAIMER: This idea was initiated "BC" (Before Coffee).

"Love" is a chemical bond between people. It is well studied on the chemical change that a brain goes under when in "love". It is designed to keep, in most cases, a Man and a Woman dependent on each other to keep dopamine,oxytocin, vasopressin and others. Which are released by the men and women's brains under different circumstances. You know that first rush, when you meet someone? That is Dopamine. Love goes through different stages, as the endorphines are released. Love is designed into a Man and a Woman from the Creator. The urge, desire to reproduce, is the driving force in Nature. It drives fish to swim to the same river that they hatched in, years earlier. One that they have never been to after that. It causes birds to fly from one end of the Earth to the other. Of beasts fighting, or challenging other potential rivals, for the privilege to mate. It has unusual bright colors or display features in animals to attract mates. Not only the physical colors, but internally in their brains, to follow "mating customs", that are genetic in each generation. In order to receive that hormone burst from out brains, we have sex, the touching, smell of each other, and the orgasm is addictive, like any other drug. Which is why the Earth will always have life on it. Love is part of the Universe itself. The Universe will be here long after we pass away. But as long as you leave some Love behind, from your Spouse, or children, then that part of you lives on. You can't take anything with you when you leave, but Love is what you leave behind.

Well why didn't you say so to begin with...Oh yeah, "BC"

It escaped me that you posted this in the Science and Philosophy Forum, lack of attention to detail on my part.

But I did spend some time reading a few articles to help me understand the concept of altruism better and how it correlates with nature or goes against it. Interesting article I found about animals and biological altruism vs psychological altruism found in humans. It has something to do with genetics and evolution. I guess I don't have a clear understanding of altruism.

But in light of your explanation, I understand more what you are saying. I find it interesting, but I am going to think about it before I comment.

Thanks for clarifying. :)

Edit typo

Please note, it is an offence to use words that mikey can't understand!
Guess I'll look up 'altruism
Got it,

I have to break that apart to try to understand what you wrote.


That chemical action in our bodies is lust. Lust is the driving force of the taking nature of the Universe. Not all people that give have those chemical excretions.


Love is not required for reproduction. Love is not a universal force in nature. If it were, it would be inherent in all examples.


Attraction and migration is not a definition of Love. Perpetuation of a species isn't either. Animals don't "Give" for the sake of Love, they Give as a determined effort to procreate or to gain a reward which is the "Taking" nature of the Universe.


Again you are using Lust to quantify love.


The Earth will Not always have life on it. Always is an absolute.
Life is not here because of Love. Love is here because of Life.


We have the capacity to Love so Love is part of the Universe.
Love is an act not a substance. We can witness the results of Love but not Love itself. We can assume that those results were done from Love but actual Love is not beheld.


Love is not left anywhere. It is our own interpretation of it that we experience. If it were left behind, all who encounter it would know it as Love.

The point of this topic is not to attempt to define Love but to examine its role in the nature of the Universe as a whole. To look at its Uniqueness to the whole picture of a consuming Universe.

Hi Tom,

Great concept for a book! I'd buy it!

Also, I don't know if the emotion of Love is unique to the human species but it is wonderful. Sadly, with so many conflicts in the World, that even here on Earth, it does not seem to be universal.

Ah! I have a different suggestion for you, as a fellow writer. Stick with the basic idea, but add in that most revolutions don't take place because someone introduces an entirely new and alien idea: they occur because someone reveals through a different point of view, that the society in question ALREADY contains, and even yearns for the idea, but didn't recognize it until the "revolutionary leader" came along and pointed it out.

I'm thinking in part of our own world, where there are lots of wrong ideas about what love is, and is not. Non-humans do clearly (to me, anyway) experience love, and have love as an element in how they conduct their lives, it's just that because many people don't believe they do, they can't see it.

I'm not a published writer unless you consider that I do post my ... stories (LOL) online.
I have a long way to go at learning to write well enough to actually be good enough at it to send it to a publishing company.
I merely do it for fun.

Perhaps revolution is not what I meant. I meant that the initial contact with the aliens spread a new way to experience the Universe and it changed all resulting aliens like the ripples in a pond.

All because of our unique ability to give instead of take.

In nature, even on this planet the need to take is powerful.
Species when faced with starvation will feed on each other.
Humans, for the most part will not. They would rather die than eat a fellow human being dead or alive. It is an imperative over survival. (In some cases)
The fact that this happens is opposite of natural function.
It may not be Love but love is a component of that unique nature.

Altruism is great for a story theme. It ranks right up there with Utopian/Dystopian themes. People like me like to read about love and caring and sacrificing for others. I think it is because we have the capacity to understand those concepts that go against the nature of the Universe as we know it. It gives us a sense of humanity.

I recently watched Alien Planet again. It was a scientific view of possible alien ecology. The sustaining nature depicts that life takes, feeds but rarely gives freely.

My story would explore the concepts of the Giving Nature of Love as seen by a race of beings that do not posses those qualities but are intelligent enough to recognize them when we show them. Sorta like an epiphany to them.
It is so profound to them they spread it across the Universe.

In my mind exercise I tried to imagine all the ways we could explain the giving nature of Love and worked on ideas for specific interactions between the humans and the aliens.
I had a few ideas but they seemed to fail my initial motive for the story.
I had trouble finding a natural example of giving in nature, besides the giving associated with Love.

Natural giving is part of a butterfly effect of taking inward. Humans initiate giving naturally thru Love and it butterfly effects from that point outward.

Giving contrasts with the Universe. Does it happen elsewhere or only here?
Is there a region of space that operates on the giving principal? What might be an example of that? I can't even imagine one.

WAIT!

Quantum entanglement just came to mind, hang on. I might have to sleep on this...

No worries, its all good...

Love is a very simple thing but with complex connotations. We make it way more complicated than it has to be or actually is.
My desire is to try to remove all those complications so my aliens can grasp the actual nature of it.

For most people Love is a mystery. One of those things that you know it when you feel it but ya don't really know what it is. We try to explain it by citing specific circumstances but never really grasp its natural state.
We think Love is universal but if you ask different people they will explain it each in their own way, as it pertains to them.

To attempt to explain Love to an alien that has no relative associations is like trying to explain a color to a naturally blind person. Even then, you would have at least some things in common.

My story would have an impact on the reader, if done well, because it might provide a feasible understanding of what love is and why it is so important. At the very least, get them thinking about how they see it and provide a way to remove their negative delusions that keep them from being able to express their love or understand love that is expressed to them.

Plus, in working on the story it might give me clarity on the issues I have concerning love. An attempt to better myself so I can better socialize.

My stories are not that good, lol.

Despite the conflicts our species experience Love seems to remain. Perhaps it is because it is a personal level of giving that makes it so contrasting to the universal taking nature of the Universe?

When I read the article from BBC Earth, it talked about the animals having biological altruism. It's in certain species nature to sacrifice themselves for the survival of others. The squirrel will draw attention to itself to warn the others. Bats give each other their blood when one is weak or there is a threat of them not surviving. The honey bee will protect the queen at all cost. Monkeys groom each other to help remove pests. They don't appear to have the emotion love, yet they will care for, protect, and sacrifice themselves for their kin. The very same things we do for love, or to ensure survival of those in need, and our loved ones.

Here's the link to the article, maybe it will help trigger a thought for you.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160718-there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-truly-selfless-act

I like your thought process and think it's a great way to understand it more personally for oneself. The little research I did today and being a part of the forum helps me with the same thing. I'm a little socially challenged, maybe a lot, but I'm working on it.

That's a really good point Blondey. Wolves also mate for life. The article I read talked about animals bonding and tending to their kin. They can't speak in words, but yet we sense and feel that energy from them.

That's cool about the cows Blondey.

So Tom, maybe in trying to define love, looking to nature is the key. The biological altruism attached to our genetics?

Every so often I see a story of a couple that have been together for 65 some years. Just the other day I got chills when I started reading his words about their relationship. ( I have been in love with her since the first day I saw her.) They are the real -world embodiment of the word " inseparable," as it rests in the very heart of their relationship.

The word love is just a label? I too agree that it is.

"World embodiment of the word 'inseparable'" I like that, that's a powerful connection, and truly amazing.

Yes. Can't credit me for that as it was from the article.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.