a belief is a belief because the believer of that belief has not enough proof to claim it as fact, so anyone that claim to "believe" in the existence of God is in fact stating they have "doubts" about God's existance ..hence "to believe is to doubt"

so are those that then try to pass off a belief in God as truth without the sufficient proof to make such a claim lying to oneself and to others, while using the word faith as a way to justify the deception

"to believe is to doubt" ...there is just no way around this logic

So what's your definition of "faith"?

Oh my God (or god, whichever you prefer). That's the worst line of reason I've think I've heard since I cared what my ex-wife thought.

Good job trying to rev up another argument with laughable logic.

Also, what constitutes "proof"? Feelings to you appear to be delusional, so much for "intuition", which in my case is usually a feeling, so thereby must be "delusional" as I have no physical proof of such a thing.

faith like delusion doesn't exist pass the mind ..faith is the realization of the lack of Free Will ..faith is to place oneself into the role of God that because they wish something to be then so be it

well maybe that's why she's your ex-wife because you never cared what she thought ..also it's easy to say that the worst line of reasoning but I bet you can't explain rationally why ..

feelings may be the body's warning system but doesn't provide concrete proof for anything but maybe for your own existence

a belief is a belief because the believer of that belief has not enough proof to claim it as fact, so anyone that claim to "believe" in the existence of God is in fact stating they have "doubts" about God's existance ..hence "to believe is to doubt"

Doubt is to faith as stop is to go. You error is to use doubt, when you should use "lack of evidence". Every one who believes whether in God or evolution, has holes in their proofs. In any event you pay the price of your missplaced faith.

hello,I'm not awake, but I had to reply, I'm with you bro, sometimes I think, the biggest non-believer or skeptic of issues of spirituality are the most close to whoever the true spirit of life is. I don't know, so I don't believe, the only thing I see is that Karma is talked about in almost all religions

jimmy

isn't lack of evidence doubt ..you're trying to sugar coat it




hopefully the aliens will invade Earth first

"i doubt it"

ah, the greatest sentence of truth, "I doubt it"

jimmy

karma supposely happens to everyone but the God in question ..which suggest it's not karma but simply the God dispensing his power ..perfect example is the story of "JOB" ..

and I doubt you do doubt it

This thing made 148 pages on myspace

http://forums.myspace.com/t/2134890.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread&PageIndex=1&SortOrder=0

Debating this subject always ends with the statement, "I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe", the reason for this is even if "proof" was to be provided it would be discounted by the non-believer. There is a reason it is called a leap of faith and since there is no scientific proof of any religion being true, even with the verification that each would like to take as "truth" or "proof", it is not definite.

Just remember, even our scientific "truth" as man has grown and evolved, we have learned the previous "truth" was only true because our knowledge could not process farther at the time.

In saying that, what one believes, is just that, it is their truth. It is hard for them to think outside of their "truth" to encompass other "truths". So they will try to make others see their "truths" as they do. It sometimes happens and sometimes not. But either way one must try not to judge another for their truths, just be open to the fact each person has their own truth, none are universal.

funches, I still find you amusing, you are going to unconvert the converters, LOL

if proof of fact was available

then there would be no point

anyone with any sense could believe

proven fact

but to believe in the non proven

takes faith

and without faith in the belief

then it is irrelevant

as for a cristianity example

thomas sayin g unless i thrust my hand in his wounds i will not believe

jesus' response

you see and now you believe even more blessed are those that have not seen but believe with their faith

(not exact quote but anyone with any sense should understand it)

hey invisible kitty kat ..and this video I produced got over a 1000 view ...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=648157


so what's your point...that you realize that it's no way around the logic of "to believe is to doubt" ..I figure I'll see if anyone in this forum could do it

so Drangoness ..what proof do you provide ...to believe anything means you just don't know and not knowing if something is truth doesn't make it truth by uttering the word faith

it would be no point in "believing" because you would "know"