Just out of curiosity & to keep an open mind on things; where do nonbelievers turn in times of crisis? Scenario: you've just been diagonsed with a terminant illness with 3 mos to live or your child has just been in a tradgic life threatning accident. Does Karma come into play here and you cast it to the wind? What or who helps you get through it?
T mie

Define 'non believer' first. Do you mean non believer as in doubting every word of the bible is true? Believe in nothing? Hence my problem with modern day so called 'Christianity'. Most so called Christians feel that any one that doesnt accept the Bible as 100% truth is a heathen and a non believer. That equates right up there with someone like me that isnt sure what is what calling a 'Christian' a Bible thumper. Watch the titles my friend. And please excuse my spelling. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I respect the people that worship the Bible as the truth.. whats wrong with respecting someone that doesnt and has a more open mind? I consider myself spiritual. And i dont label you.

I believe in a higher power.. one I dont know but respect.. what the hell is wrong with that?? A CHRISTIAN only believes.. they dont actually KNOW!!

my mother died of a terminal illness, she wasnt really a religious person...her faith and heart was in her family and friends...who were there for her till the end

Gosh, twisty, I wasn't labeling anyone. I just want to know where do people go in times of crisis that do not believe in GOD. I didn't mean to rub you wrong and I don't thump my bible, I read it.

Thanks for your input Miss Debbie. I didn't think anyone was on. I'm sorry to hear about your mom. It's hard to go on after losing someone you love. So where did you turn when you lost your mom? Do you believe in GOD?

And I am not gettng nasty.. I respect everyones beliefs. Where do I go in times of trouble? I go omside myself and I give myself over to whoever.. whatever.. rules us. It is that POWERS decsion as to what happens. I firmly believe that we are given free choice. WE choose our own destiny. Heaven and hell? Or as my people thought Valhalla?? Who knows? No one will ever know until we are there. I simply accept that there is something out there that rules us :) And I respect that.Peace to you, my friend. I meant no disrespect.

Peace to you twisty and thanks for replying & giving me insight. That's all I was looking for. I have to agree with you about religion; people get out of hand with it and believe it or not, JESUS CHRIST came against religions & it was they who crucified HIM. But I'm sure that doesn't interest you, twisty and thanks again for believing in a higher power.

Totally depends on the circumstances. Each of us gives in to the primortal emotions from time to time, first. If I can't overcome that, like Twistyy I go inside myself, embrace the emotions, (the inner child) that needs to be calmed.

Then I consider all the possibilities, take note of all the paths that can be followed. Consult with friends and family, and then determine the best course of action.

These are 'steps' in a process. Those who put their faith in a deity almost always follow the same course. The difference is they don't embrace their emotions, they don't usually turn inward to attian the calm, they believe that calm comes from 'outside' themselves.

Both processes work, but both require the 'internal calm' to proceed. So where does the calm come from? It comes because it is required, in order to continue, but does it need to be provided from an external source? No, perhaps it never really is, perhaps it was 'inside' all along.

Thank you redykeulous for you interesting view point. I think I'll have to search that out. Does this always work for you?and I stress always.
T mie

Hi tomie,


I'm not sure what you are asking. If you are asking if I have gotten through the toughest times alone, not always. However, when I choose to turn to an outside source, it is always one in the physical realm. Like those better equiped with knowledge than myself on a specific issue. Those who have the means to 'help' me accomplish, what I have determined, must be done.

We don't always enjoy the ride, but the journey is filled with learning experiences, and wonders to behold. I see this birth as payment for a one way ticket, the ride is life. But we have many ways to continue the journey. So we must continue to pay the fare to get to the next learning experience. It may seem that payment is not equitable, and perhaps it is not. But those who pay the highest price have the opportunity to experience so much more, than those who desire only a 'carefree' sightseeing tour.

All it takes is knowing yourself, who you are, what you need, and the ability to recognize all the resources available to us in this world. So we 'hope' that each new experience gives us the fare to take another ride. Because eventually that one ticket expires and all that remains is the final 'hope' that you have learned enough to have taught, and touched, and loved others along the way. And if there is a legacy left behind, it will not be in the footprints of where you walked, it will be in everyting you have passed on to others along the way. That legacy, may inspire others to walk when they might ride. To pay the fare to experience all the people, places, emotions and the wonders of a world we can only experience through our senses.

This, works for me, ALWAYS.

I never have a “crisis” so to me the question is moot.

No you might think to yourself, “This guy must be lucky to have such a cushy life”. But that’s not what I mean when I say that I never have a crisis.

A crisis is a subjective judgment call, it’s not a real objective thing.

A “crisis” is nothing more than our inability to accept a situation. That’s all crisis is.

You mentioned being diagnosed with a terminal illness and being told that you only have 3 mo. to live. To you that would be a “crisis”, to me it would simply mean that I know how and when I’m likely to die. That wouldn’t send me into a state of emotional turmoil. To begin with, I’m not afraid of death in the least. I’ll never understand why so many people are afraid of death.

What’s to be afraid of? People have been dying for eons. It’s a common thing that human beings do. In fact it’s a natural event that happens to all living things eventually. It’s the nature of life. It’s not like I would be facing this alone as a “unique experience”. My mother died. If death was good enough for her, it’s good enough for me!

As far as all other so-called “crisis”, I can only say that it’s a matter of accepting what life brings. That doesn’t mean to imply what we should be nonchalant about it, or dispassionate. But there’s no reason to go off the deep end of ‘non-acceptance’ either. And non-acceptance is really all that “crisis” is.

Many people talk about needing support from their family and friends. I’ve never even felt that I needed support from human beings, much less a supernatural being. I’ve always been able to handle whatever life throws at me on my own. At least emotionally anyway.

For me, about the worst thing I can imagine (the thing that would be unacceptable for me, and therefore a true ‘crisis’) would be a situation of prolonged agony. Either acted on me directly, or having to watch someone I love in that situation.

But as far as turning to a God to ‘ease’ my pain, or make my ‘crisis’ any easier to bear, I just can’t see it. A ‘crisis’ is nothing more than my own unwillingness to accept a situation. If I want to lighten my ‘crisis’ all I need to do is accept it. And accept the fact that there is nothing I can do about it.

I think that’s the key right there. People aren’t willing to accept that they have no control over a situation that they are not happy about, and this causes them to feel desperate. That’s what ‘crisis’ is.

Would I ever become so ‘desperate’ to ask an intervening God to intervene? Sure. I’ve done that in the past. But there was no response from any intervening God. A supposedly intervening God who refuses to intervene is not an intervening God at all. It’s just a lame desperate hope of a human who is helpless to change a situation.

If I actually saw an intervening God intervene I might be inclined to request his assistance at times. But the fact of the matter is that I’ve never seen or heard any ‘credible’ evidence that such a God exists. All of the tales I’ve ever heard concerning these matters are always made by people who also make other absurd claims that are highly questionable. So there’s no credence to their claims. In short, I have no direct reason to believe that any such intervening God exists.

More to the point of your topic. Even if I did believe in such a God, my only request from him would be to intervene to change the situation that I consider to be the crisis. I wouldn’t need to turn to God to give me the strength to deal with it. I already have that on my own.

James I agree with your general explanation here, although you seem to be discounting the human nature of interdependence...

It is a given... an absolute if there ever was one.

Thanks abracadabra for that view point although I would have to disagree with the most part. I assume you know I would. lol. No man is an island. You sound like you're isolated from the world and all that it dishes out. Human suffering is inevitable & so is death. And if you're not fearful of death, then why do you eat, why do you take care of yourself, why do you work, why are you on here making human connections?Yea you need human connection or support.You wouldn't be on here if that wasn't true. and who created people & you. Your mom & dad? then who created them? Grandparents? the list goes on the the first couple. Who created them? It's often times difficult to understand there must be a starting point, the creator. It's like looking a newly built home; who done the first work?
Surely some people handle crisis better than others but it comes down to a tramatic event no matter how it's handled. If people have been dying for eons and there should be no fear, why don't everyone walk out in front of a Mack truck? Life is precious & it's human nature to hold on to every minute of it.
Prolonged agony could be the patient with 3 mos. left to live & ends up lasting 3 years in the worst kind of pain imaginable.
Having an intervention is like having the power of positive thinking. Prayer is that positive thinking. Prayer can change things. You're not really sure if GOD answered your prayer. HE may have but not in your fashion or timing. HE has a whole world to see about & what you do & what happens to you has to coincided with HIS plan. HE will make it work.
Abracadabra, I think it only human nature not to accpet things I have no control over; especially the not so good. I didn't want the World Trade Centers to be terrorized & collapse but it happened. I don't like war but it happens. I don't want any child born with birth defects but it happens. So, I turn to someone who has more power than I do. If I gave you examples of an intervening GOD would you believe then? The governor of Georgia called his staff and the state to pray for rain because they are drought striken. 3 DAYS later, rain came. They're still in a drought depression but I see GOD working. YOu might call that coincidence but I call it answered prayer.
I'm not critizing your belief system. If it works for you, I don't see you changing your views but if it doesn't, wouldn't you want to know an alternative?

Tomie with all due respect, who eats because they are afraid of death?

I eat because I am hungry and it feels good...

family or yourself something you can see or touch.

I don't have time right now to read your whole response.

I got as far as the following and had to stop to comment.



Are you suggesting that the only thing that drives you do live and interact with others is a fear of death????

That’s the most absurd thing I ever heard!

I’ll have to come back later to see what else you wrote, but this comment already leaves me thinking that you have a really warped outlook on life if your only reason to live is because you fear death?

That's just too weird.

A totally redundant argument for the existence of a creator. On the contrary this kind of argument only begs the question of where did God come from! All you’re really saying here is that by your logic God must have a mother, and so on.



To me, walking out in front of a Mack Truck represent the potential for pain, and lots of it, plus the possibility of ending up as grossly disfigured living paraplegic instead of dying.

You seem to be taking the position that if you don’t fear something then you must highly desire it.

This is an extremely weak argument. Also, this would imply that animals also fear death. I don’t think that having an instinct to cling to life is the same thing as fearing death. By your assessment then animals have the same awareness of death as humans do. Because they exhibit the same instintual behaviors as humans do. They eat, interact with each other, and do what they can to survive and avoid demise. That doesn’t automatically equate to fearing death.

All you are saying here that people aren’t any differnet from animals and that animals aren’t any different from people?

Actually I would agree with that, but I'm just asking.



It’s all animal’s nature to cling to life! Not just human nature. It’s instinctual and has nothing to do with fear.



Wrong! If God didn’t do what I asked when I asked then he didn’t answer my prayer. If he did something else in a different time then he did something else at a different time. That’s not what I had prayed for and thus he didn’t answer my prayer.

You religious people always want to have your cake and eat it too! Either God answers your prayers or he does something differnet. Period.



Yep, I definitely believe it was coincidence. I’m not impressed. Why am I not impressed? Because there are far too many cases where sincere people have prayed for rain and their prayers were not answered. So at best your God would be inconsistent and undependable.

If prayers are only answered at the same rate as normal probabilities then what good are they?



I’m coming back to what you originally said just to completely blow you out of the water and show precisely how truly absurd your rationale is here!

If you are claiming that a fear of death is the only motivation to take care of yourself, work (be productive) and make human connections, then,…

What will be your motivation to exist in an eternal heaven where there is no death????

What will motivate you to be productive there and to make spiritual connections????

If your claim is that death is the motivation for life, than what is the motivation to live in an eternal afterlife? Surely death can’t be the motivation there!

Do you see how absurd your claims are? Especially coming from someone who supposedly believes in an eternal afterlife!

If you claim that a fear of death is the only motivation for life, then what will be your motivation to live in an eternal afterlife where you no longer have a fear of death?

All you are saying here is that there will be no motivation for an eternal afterlife.

In fact, all you are really claiming here is that death is the only thing that gives life meaning!!!!

This is what you are saying from a purely phiolosophical point of view.

tomie,

I apologize for interrupting your thread, but I would like to clarify something about the title question of this thread before participating.

In reading some of your replies to most every posters so far, and I am left wondering about your actual intentions.

When you ask :

"... Where do nonbelievers go in times of crisis?...",

... are you genuinely interested in learning more about other poeple's take on the matter, such that you might learn, or otherwise gain a better understanding of others, through an honest and open-minded exchange with them...

or,

might you have an undeclared intention to preach your own beliefs to everyone under the disguise of a potentially 'loaded' question?

In the event where it might be a bit of both, I'd like to point out to you, that I for one, have a problem with this questionable practice.

This is a 'religious chat' forum, and not a 'religious preaching' forum. There is a significant difference between the two.

If your intent is to preach, please be upfront about it, and declare it in your OP. That way, people who choose to be preached to, will engage knowingly, and those for whom preaching is of no interest, will stay away.

Simple enough?!?!?

In the event where I'm completely in left field with my perception, would you still be kind enough to clarify some of your replies below:











I wish not to offend you in any way shape or form 'tomie', just ro be clear and straight with you: 'a religious chat site is not synonymous with 'open preaching season'!!!

Respectfully.

Hi Tomie, good to see you got home. I shall be interested to learn what you find out on this. Were you tired when you wrote?

Redy
"These are 'steps' in a process. Those who put their faith in a deity almost always follow the same course. The difference is they don't embrace their emotions, they don't usually turn inward to attian the calm, they believe that calm comes from 'outside' themselves.

Both processes work, but both require the 'internal calm' to proceed. So where does the calm come from? It comes because it is required, in order to continue, but does it need to be provided from an external source? No, perhaps it never really is, perhaps it was 'inside' all along"

I can relate to that, perhaps I am one of the few, (or perhaps there are more) that do look for that 'inner' peace, for me it is a spiritual thing.