both just won Maryland and Virginia primaries, with DC votes still being counted. They're both expected to speak in the next few minutes, and I would heartily encourage anyone who hasn't experienced their views or speaking styles to turn on your tv and check it out on CNN or your preferred fine news station.

I will now leave this thread and never come back, in anticipation of the slander, idiocy, and ignorance which will undoubtedly be forthcoming.

Anyone interested should check out the speeches.

Man...it's okay. This is history in the making. Watching would be encourage(able) (<---not a word). Thanks for the info. Oh yeah, where's the lips?

I agree it is historic, and I'm glad to be part of it.

<< And there are the lips.

I got a good laugh out of that past topic.

You're a wise one mister.

both just won Maryland and Virginia primaries, with DC votes still being counted. They're both expected to speak in the next few minutes, and I would heartily encourage anyone who hasn't experienced their views or speaking styles to turn on your tv and check it out on CNN or your preferred fine news station.

I will now leave this thread and never come back, in anticipation of the slander, idiocy, and ignorance which will undoubtedly be forthcoming.

Anyone interested should check out the speeches.

Yes, you are right. There is a segment of people on this site who are anti-America and they fill the threads with, as you put it, slander, idiocy and ignorance.

Not anti-America...just ignorant.

soxfan94..... There are too many people on this site, not on this thread, but on the general site who originate threads and post comments, which always focus on the negative and not the positive things that are happening in America. That is anti-American. These people post blurbs and copy items from websites that espouse beliefs that go against all the reasons as to why America was founded and what America stands for. That is anti-American. Those people constantly attack America. That is anti-American. Those are the people I am referring to.

In connection with the above, you cannot sweep it under the rug by saying they are "just ignorant." Initially, "ignorance of the law" was no excuse; now that proverb refers to everything in connection with our everday living, family, social, work environment, politics, religion, and on and on. Therefore, once again I will repeat that ignorance is no excuse. These people are anti-American and we need to recognize this and stand up against these anti-American people.

Firstly, i was speaking of ignorant people in the sense that they post rampant mistruths without first checking to see if they originate from a reliable source. Saying negative things about our country in a way which is informed and critical is not only not ignorant, it is actually the very basis of our system of government. Critical dissent was the notion which the founding fathers envisioned (and, in fact used) to keep the country free from potentially tyrannical leaders.

To call any free thinking American who dissents "anti-American" is to fundamentally distort what it actually means to be "American." This country was founded using certain values, those held dearly by our earliest leaders. However, there was a deeper principle which formed the foundation for those values: and that was the idea that there would be no required set of values...the entire basis for the representative government was the fluidity of leadership as evidenced by the three-tiered representative system. This was a government which was supposed to be accountable to the people..."of the people, by the people, for the people." To label as "Anti-American" anyone who states their belief about a better way which America may be run is, quite frankly, wrong by definition.

The entire basis of this country was the multitude of opinions and how best to be able to hear and respond to these differing values and beliefs. How can we maintain a government which responds to our wishes if we don't state them freely?

I still maintain that those who speak with non-researched facts or baseless hatred are ignorant...but I don't believe that makes them anti-American. Likewise, I would say that people who continually post about only the bad things about America and our government may be pessimistic, but that doesn't make them anti-American. If I were forced into a black-or-white decision, I would honestly lean towards calling them more American than an apathetic observer. At least they're aware of what our government is doing and are analyzing whether or not they support it, and spreading that information to others with information backed arguments. There's no need to debate what our government is doing correctly, because we don't need to fix that.

SOXFAN94......

You misread my post, whether it was on purpose or out of, as you put it, ignorance, I don't know. I have no problem with people who criticize our government/president/congress/whatever as long as it is constructive criticism. My post referred to those who continually use these threads to post hate-filled rants against America. Critical dissent is fine, but not when a person does it time and time again without saying one positive thing about our government, then that person is anti-American.

You say "......... those who speak with non-researched facts or baseless hatred are ignorant, but that doesn't make them anti-American......." The people who are doing this on these threads are constantly being educated by those who love America that what they are doing is wrong. Therefore, since these "ignorant people," as you call them, are constantly being educated, they can no longer claim ignorance. Therefore, they are indeed anti-American.

....all the reasons as to why America was founded and what America stands for.

SOXFAN.......

These same people are also being constantly educated in the need to quit criticising America, that they should be offering solutions and that their behavior of always trashing America is akin to anti-Americanism.

.....take a look at the profiles of these hate mongers. Most of them are in menial jobs or positions that pay low wages.

Secondly, how dare you act like the fact that someone is less american, or anti american based on their education level or income level. What an atrocious condescension. That type of thinking is deplorable and worrisome in my opinion...in my opinion the rich already have far too much power in our government and society. Your insinuation, taken to its ultimate conclusion, would have us heading towards an autocracy...at which point the founding fathers would not only turn in their graves, they would probably arise and start another revolution. All historical evidence taken as it may be (regarding the economical disparities of leaders and citizens in the 18th century), the intention of the founding fathers was to involve all the people in at least the decision making and election process, which necessarily mean that their opinions were all to be fairly considered.

Sox.. While I do commend you on your consistently thought provoking posts/ threads... and thoroughly understand and agree with many of your points here..

I must agree with her on a few things. Disagree with you.