If Satan has any power at all it's only because God gave it to him.

Do you realize that 33% of the angels in heaven sided with Satan? That's a lot of peeved angels. Something about heaven must not be so perfect.

Makes me wonder if 33% of the people who make there are going to be disappointed.

Or maybe even more. There may have actually been more angels who wanted to side with Satan but who were simply too fearful of God to risk it.

Pretty scary to think that maybe 66% of the angels remained in heaven just because they were too frightened to speak up.

I would still be here at 1. The only sin you have hanging over your head is the one you imagine your God cares about. A normal person that doesn't believe in that type of Voodoo can go through out the day peacefully knowing that they are not sinful by nature. That their children will not be born sinners. That they do not have to pay for the sins of some fruit eater from long ago.

Come out into the light where you can find real peace.

Yeah really.

To say that God only knows how to create sinners is a pretty low blow to a deity.

I give God more credit than that.

Perhaps the non-believer does not get mad at either... because they do not believe in either...


Perhaps when the blatent truth is spoken, it seems to some(believers) as though the speaker has anger... even when they do not...


Perhaps this is because if the believer would have asked the same question, they would have done so in anger?

Precisely. God will not help me, Superman will not help me, the Green Hornet will not help me, and Sherlock Holmes will not help me.

Fictional characters cannot intervene in the real world.

Hey Lex...

How are ya?

It has always fascinated me how so many believers claim that a non-believer is mad at something that they do not even believe exists...

If I had a dollar for every time...

Amazing reflections, perhaps...

CS -- Always good to see you -- as you inject a much-needed dose of sanity into what might otherwise become something akin to a mass hallucination....!

I can't be angry at something that I believe never even existed in the first place -- I will admit to going through a period of disappointment but that seems more related to the sense of having been misled as a youngster, moreso than it does to any animosity towards a fiction that was fed to me as a reality when I was too young to be able to discern the difference....

For those who obtain some comfort from it, I can only wish them well....for myself, I would worry about believing that way -- because, once that door has been opened, I'm not sure it ever really can be shut again....and who knows what other demons may slip through, undetected....?

Thank you for the compliment...

Regarding your thought(s)

No doubt...

One thing that is an absolute...

Opposites exist, necessarily so...

God did not gave them anything, They took it arbitrarily. By their own choice. Like some people choose to deny the undeniable (God's existance).

so what r u saying that people who believe in God are not normal. This gentlemam here just confirm that nonbelievers are as judgmental, egotistical, and biased as they claim christians are.
in other words u criticize ur own reflection in a mirror.

You choose the path you take in life.... Judgement day comes to everyone eventually.... Be it in life or in death.... You never know when death will come knocking at your door....

This is precisely how I feel. If there is any animosity associated with it it’s directed at the people who taught this crap like as if they knew it was true, than with the actual fantasy itself.

And I don’t even blame my parents (actually it was mostly my mother because my father died when I was 9). But my mother wasn’t to blame. She just fell for it like everyone else. She was a victim of the system, in more than just religion. She fell for the whole social shebang. I mean, she was raised in a blue-collar family and just assumed that this is what her kids should be. The idea of actually becoming something more than the family life we were born into was frown upon. It’s like we were supposed to know our place. She was extremely meek submissive person. In all honesty I personally feel she was meeker than Christ himself. She would have never overthrown money tables in a church. So she’s got one up on the fictitious character of Christ. Of course she didn’t think that way.

But seriously, Christianity has no more merit that Greek mythology. Not one iota more. In fact, there are so many parallels to it that it’s utterly insane not to realize that it’s the same kind of demagoguery. I’m absolutely totally certain that Jesus was not the son of any Godhead, anymore than Apollo was or anyone else. I have absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. Not only is far too typical of the folklore of that regional area, but the story taken as a whole isn’t even consistent. So I guess I’m a little peeved at the people who continue to push these fairytales. All they do is brainwash people into believing they are sinners and cause them to point at everyone else claiming that they are all sinners to.

It’s a seriously demented perverted religion that serves no constructive purpose other than giving hopeless people a delusion to cling to. But I seriously believe that they would be better off accepting that we really don’t know exactly what’s going on. I think that would be a much healthier attitude to have. Then we’d start actually taking responsibility for our own fate instead of deluding ourselves that it’s always ‘in God’s hands’. That’s a seriously negative non-constructive attitude.

I also think that pantheism is a proven fact. We are all arisen from a single source. That doesn’t necessarily imply that our egotistical individual consciousnesses will be preserved for all of eternity. They may or may not. Pantheism (that we are all manifestations of this universe) is true even for atheists. Precisely how you want to believe in it can be either spiritual or not. I tend to lead toward the spiritual end of things. I believe that we are the thing that is taking the form of the human body. (i.e. our ultimate sentient essence is this universe). We are this universe perceiving itself. If someone wants to call that God more power to them (I often do). However, some pantheists believe that even though we are part of this much larger universe, our consciousness is fleeting. It arises when we are born and ceases to exist when we die. We are still part of the whole, but rather than believing that we are the thing that is taking the form, they believe that we are the actual form that is being taken. And when that form ceases to exist so do we.

I lean heavily toward the spiritual pantheism. Everything that I am is this universe, including my ability to perceive. I am the perceiver, not the form. In this way when the form fades away I will awaken to the true essence of my spiritual self. The true self that perceives the form.

I have reasons for leaning heavily in this direction. Although it’s certainly not because I need to believe it.

I genuinely don’t care. Whatever is, is. And I don’t need it to be anything more than that. And sometimes I even think that would be a relief. Living for eternity does not really appeal to me (as a human form). But maybe it will once I realize my true spiritual form.

The one thing I know for sure is that this universe is mystical. And the creator of it isn’t likely to have arranged it so that he would need to have his only begotten son nailed to a pole to save a bunch of whining fruitcakes.

He had no problem flushing them down the toilet once already. He’s supposed to be unchanging.

Need I say more? The fairytale is clearly inconsistent and has to be myth. It can’t be true.

An unchanging God can’t change. And if he does, then he’s completely undependable and doesn’t know what he wants because he could change again tomorrow and could potentially even become a demon if he’s so inclined to change.

The idea that Jesus was around at creation flies in the face of the Great Flood. If Jesus was going to come he would have come before that, not after. That would be a gross inconsistency. Two different versions of reality clashing in the same story.

When are people going to wake up to the fact this is mythology?

Free will is the answer your question...



See you in hell

I have to say Satan does nothing in this earth. He is an spiritual being. He has the power to influence human actions, but he doesn't do anything physically. Man and only Man is responsible for the actions which lead to suffering and pain. It's true man influenced by Satan, but at the end the one who decides to commit the action is the man.
The biggest accomplishment of Satan is make men and women think that either him or God exist. In that way he can work at ease.
Because if I say I'm sinless I'm denying the nature of God and Satan at the same time. So who is succeding. Satan ofcourse.
If in a highway there is a post that says speed limit is 55 mph there is a reason for it.

not in a debating mood tonight but just wanted to say...

My grandmother went to the hospital today from a heart attack. she's had several little ones as well as several little strokes. she is the rock of our family and we would be crushed.

she is a very christian woman who brought me up not to judge others for being different. she lives her life every day with her beliefs. she's strong and would help anyone.

people have told her they would pray for her. she replied ty but if it's my time then it's my time. she says she has done what she needed to on earth.

she believes in God's plans and if it is in his plan...she would stay on earth. I talked to her yesterday about topics like this. i was told by jer, that we may not see his path or see prays are being answered. It could be God wants us to help those in need to teach us compassion.

like I said...I'm not in the mood to deabte...so feel free to say what you will

She sounds a lot like my mother. My mother died 2 years ago. She was 90. A very strong Christian but not the least bit pushy or aggressive about it.

I find myself constantly apologizing to her. Even today whilst I was out chopping wood I caught myself apologizing to my mother. And the funny thing is that I'm apologizing to her for life. Not for anything I had done. I had treated my mother the best I possibly could, given my resources. Unfortunately my resources weren’t what I would have liked them to be. And that’s part of what I keep apologizing to her for. Even though it was totally out of my control and not the least bit my fault. I suffered from the same lack of resources.

I guess, I’m really apologizing for God. For the very nature of life. That people get old and become ill. That’s what I keep apologizing to my mother for. I keep apologizing for God. I can’t help it. I feel like someone has to do it. And ironically it was her Christian upbringing that makes me feel so apologetic about God. It’s like she believed in something that failed her. And so I keep apologizing for that.

I hope your grandmother recovers.

i found god... he was behind the couch the whole time..

So did you tag him and yell, “You’re it!”

Nah... I said the other god was looking for him, and she didn't look happy..

Note the similarity between "divan" and "divine." Coincidence? I think not.