Community > Posts By > HotRodDeluxe

 
HotRodDeluxe's photo
Thu 02/06/14 01:34 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Thu 02/06/14 01:44 PM

In order to understand the improbability of the government’s explanation of 9/11, it is not necessary to know anything about what force or forces brought down the three World Trade Center buildings, what hit the Pentagon or caused the explosion, the flying skills or lack thereof of the alleged hijackers, whether the airliner crashed in Pennsylvania or was shot down, whether cell phone calls made at the altitudes could be received, or any other debated aspect of the controversy.

You only have to know two things.

One is that according to the official story, a handful of Arabs, mainly Saudi Arabians, operating independently of any government and competent intelligence service, men without James Bond and V for Vendetta capabilities, outwitted not only the CIA, FBI, and National Security Agency, but all 16 US intelligence agencies, along with all security agencies of America’s NATO allies and Israel’s Mossad. Not only did the entire intelligence forces of the Western world fail, but on the morning of the attack the entire apparatus of the National Security State simultaneously failed. Airport security failed four times in one hour. NORAD failed. Air Traffic Control failed. The US Air Force failed. The National Security Council failed. Dick Cheney failed. Absolutely nothing worked. The world’s only superpower was helpless at the humiliating mercy of a few undistinguished Arabs.

It is hard to image a more far-fetched story–except for the second thing you need to know: The humiliating failure of US National Security did not result in immediate demands from the President of the United States, from Congress, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and from the media for an investigation of how such improbable total failure could have occurred. No one was held accountable for the greatest failure of national security in world history. Instead, the White House dragged its feet for a year resisting any investigation until the persistent demands from 9/11 families for accountability forced President George W. Bush to appoint a political commission, devoid of any experts, to hold a pretend investigation.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/09/11/the-11th-anniversary-911-paul-craig-roberts/


I was wondering when you'd post this flawed opinion piece. You always use it, and it is full of nonsense and lies. Got anything like proof? No, 12 years and nothing but internet silliness from 9/11 truth.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Thu 02/06/14 01:32 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Thu 02/06/14 02:05 PM



I just enjoy the comments at the yahoo article. Have no idea why yahoo users seem to have a higher IQ than many of the posters on this site.

Here is one I found interesting.

Building 7 fell in 6 seconds and nothing hit it!


Incorrect. It took about 14 seconds IIRC and it was struck by large chunks of debris from WTC 1 & 2. Owing to the water supplies being destroyed by the collapse of WTC's 1 & 2, the fires in Blg. 7 went unfought for seven hours. This caused the failure of a key column under the Penthouse which initiated the collapse.

...That's right a 3rd building fell and there was a media blackout about it.


Incorrect, no media blackout ensued and actually 10 buildings were destroyed. I saw it reported in real time here in Australia...some blackout.

Not on single airport security camera showing you a terrorist entering a plane,


Incorrect. See the evidence from the Moussaoui trial.

No plane at the pentagon or shanksville.


Incorrect. Evidence recovered at both sites and eyewitness accounts.

2500 architects and engineers telling you that NIST is lying to your face!


Incorrect. Not many members are actually accredited when one investigates the roster. Furthermore, you assume that they have studied the NIST report and found it wanting. If so, why haven't they published their findings in a credible journal? Gage is a con-man and he will never put up his claims for peer review as he knows it will destroy what's left of his credibility.

Nano-thermite found in ''molten metal''...


Incorrect. Jones and Harrit 'claimed' to have found evidence of Nano-Thermite in dust collected that contained paint chips. Dr. Millette has proved this false, and the editor of the Bentham Journal who published this erroneous paper had to resign over the subsequent scandal over a lack of peer review.


jet fuel burns at 800 degrees steel takes 3000 degrees to melt,


Steel loses its structural integrity at a much lower temperature. You should know that because...

...you worked at a steel mill for 20 years!

So much for their supposed IQ. It would seem the commentators don't really know the subject. 12 years and 9/11 truth still just talks crap and does nothing.



Sure, just keep drinking the kool-aid.


And here we have another vacuous response that in no way disputes or disproves my points, but I suspect you know little on the subject and that is the best you can do. I mean, cleverbot could have come up with a better response than this hackneyed old tripe. Typical, all truthers really have left is just silly ad homs.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 02/05/14 10:08 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Wed 02/05/14 10:20 PM

Drink the cool aid hot rod.


Ok, just a banal handwave response without addressing the points...I
knew that was coming. Question: How do you know you haven't drunk the 'Kool-Aid'? You don't know the subject as well as you think you do, and nor did the commentators you reposted.

We all know plane crashes involve body parts suitcases, clothing pretty much everything all over the place. Saw none of that at the Pentagon.


So YOU didn't see it, so it doesn't exist. That sums up truther lack of reasoning skills beautifully. You do know that we in the west refrain from displaying bodies and body parts of innocent victims in the media out of respect? Have you seen the CCTV recording of the fireball after impact? You know, the one that shows the plane striking the Pentagon, despite the limitation of frames per second? If you had you would realise that much of the debris was destroyed, or inside the building in the crash zone. You can easily find pics of the wreckage if you look, try googling in 'images' 'AA77 wreckage', that should be a good start.

How many video cameras surround the Pentagon? what footage was released?


Roughly, 85 but most weren't aimed at the impact zone, mostly entrances and exits (understandably). You can find the relevant footage in the Moussaoui trial evidence, and I'm certain I posted the evidence in a previous thread. If I didn't you'll have to excuse me as I do this on a lot of sites and I sometimes forget.

And what are the defenses of the Pentagon? The nerve center of
our trillion dollar defense industry?


Very little as I've demonstrated to you on a number of occasions. I think I brought it up on your thread about Mineta's 'evidence'.

I am not saying everyone is right who makes a post but most of the intelligent comments are from thinking people and the majority take a position that goes against the official explanation of 911.


Well, none of that stuff was right and you are resorting to your usual logical fallacy: argumentum ad populum. Most of your 9/11 threads are spent trying to prove how popular the truth movement is, when in actual fact it's limited to a small number of internet cranks. NYCCAN couldn't get 25,000 legitimate signatures for its petition to investigate the collapse of WTC7 in '09. 24,450 were bogus names and addresses. Gage can't get the donations to build a prima facie case on AE911T (it's funny how his operating costs always exceed the cash donated per annum).

I am thinking most people are 911 skeptics.


Well, that doesn't mean anything, see argumentum ad populum.

It was used to create this god awful Orwellian police state we call America.


You wouldn't know the true meaning of police state.

The land of free and home of the brave is some kind of sick joke.


To you, perhaps. 12 years and 9/11 truth still has nothing but lies and fanciful stories.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 02/05/14 03:31 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Wed 02/05/14 03:37 PM


Acute TDS!
Hope he will get help!laugh


http://gunssaveus.com/post-game-interview-interrupted-investigate-911/

Post Game Interview Interrupted, “Investigate 9/11?”

Was this a crazy fan or some sort of inside genius? Should we take his advice and investigate 9/11, we have all heard the conspiracy about it being an inside job. This is probably a guy we should have mentally evaluated.(not just him) Just a funny incident….

Gotta love those people willing to risk jail time for insanity.laugh


I'm surprised the player didn't clock him for his rudeness. Talk about stealing the man's glory, but a typical truther stunt. Have you seen the way Chomsky dealt with a truther who pulled a similar stunt during question time after a lecture? It was priceless.

http://youtu.be/vDDhN9j5C14

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 02/05/14 02:26 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Wed 02/05/14 03:01 PM

I just enjoy the comments at the yahoo article. Have no idea why yahoo users seem to have a higher IQ than many of the posters on this site.

Here is one I found interesting.

Building 7 fell in 6 seconds and nothing hit it!


Incorrect. It took about 14 seconds IIRC and it was struck by large chunks of debris from WTC 1 & 2. Owing to the water supplies being destroyed by the collapse of WTC's 1 & 2, the fires in Blg. 7 went unfought for seven hours. This caused the failure of a key column under the Penthouse which initiated the collapse.

...That's right a 3rd building fell and there was a media blackout about it.


Incorrect, no media blackout ensued and actually 10 buildings were destroyed. I saw it reported in real time here in Australia...some blackout.

Not on single airport security camera showing you a terrorist entering a plane,


Incorrect. See the evidence from the Moussaoui trial.

No plane at the pentagon or shanksville.


Incorrect. Evidence recovered at both sites and eyewitness accounts.

2500 architects and engineers telling you that NIST is lying to your face!


Incorrect. Not many members are actually accredited when one investigates the roster. Furthermore, you assume that they have studied the NIST report and found it wanting. If so, why haven't they published their findings in a credible journal? Gage is a con-man and he will never put up his claims for peer review as he knows it will destroy what's left of his credibility.

Nano-thermite found in ''molten metal''...


Incorrect. Jones and Harrit 'claimed' to have found evidence of Nano-Thermite in dust collected that contained paint chips. Dr. Millette has proved this false, and the editor of the Bentham Journal who published this erroneous paper had to resign over the subsequent scandal over a lack of peer review.


jet fuel burns at 800 degrees steel takes 3000 degrees to melt,


Steel loses its structural integrity at a much lower temperature. You should know that because...

...you worked at a steel mill for 20 years!

So much for their supposed IQ. It would seem the commentators don't really know the subject. 12 years and 9/11 truth still just talks crap and does nothing.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 06:02 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 06:05 PM




"....This meme, of course, was a lie. As NSA insiders have pointed out for years, most if not all of the current illegal collections programs began before 9/11, but the false flag events of September 11th provided the perfect justification for the revelation and expansion of those programs...."

So? What would one expect after the attacks? Business as usual? Surveillance would naturally increase after 9/11, as it did after Madrid, London and Bali. National Security Agency denotes it is their responsibility to perform just such tasks, and yet many view this with surprise.

slaphead Typical spin from Global Research, though. I suppose a believer would have to be convinced that 9/11 was a False Flag attack, despite the idea being a little 'on the fringe'.


even if you ignore the conspiracy parts, it still makes a bit of sense..


It's more an 'appeal to emotion' than anything resembling an accurate analysis.


yea, well..point taken, but the underlying message is the same... i personally don't think it was a "false flag" event, but the powers that be sure used it to their advantage...


Or they responded to it accordingly in order to prevent it occurring again. It's all about perspective really. Imagine if they did nothing regarding stepping up security after 9/11, and Al-Qaeda committed another atrocity on domestic US soil? The fallout within the media and the electorate would be astronomical.

To put it simply, your government cannot allow this to happen again, and it knows this only too well. Please note, that I have no affiliation with the right or the left.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 05:52 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 05:54 PM


"....This meme, of course, was a lie. As NSA insiders have pointed out for years, most if not all of the current illegal collections programs began before 9/11, but the false flag events of September 11th provided the perfect justification for the revelation and expansion of those programs...."

So? What would one expect after the attacks? Business as usual? Surveillance would naturally increase after 9/11, as it did after Madrid, London and Bali. National Security Agency denotes it is their responsibility to perform just such tasks, and yet many view this with surprise.

slaphead Typical spin from Global Research, though. I suppose a believer would have to be convinced that 9/11 was a False Flag attack, despite the idea being a little 'on the fringe'.


even if you ignore the conspiracy parts, it still makes a bit of sense..


It's more an 'appeal to emotion' than anything resembling an accurate analysis.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 05:45 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 05:57 PM
12 years and 9/11 truth hasn't been able to produce anything resembling a prima facie case, and until it does, no-one will take the calls for a new investigation seriously. Gage, Griffin, Jones, Harrit and Balsamo (among others) have nothing left but the trumpeting of claims that were shown to be false as far back as 2006. And that is why it doesn't go away, for their income depends on keeping the lies alive.


This act at the Super Bowl just gets filed under 'another nutter seeking attention'.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 01:22 AM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 01:23 AM


hey people, leave the kid alone.
All in all it's just a brick in the wall.


I think quoting Floyd in a Bieber thread is considered a sin.



"I've got a silver spoon on a chain..." :wink:

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 01:13 AM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 01:14 AM
"....This meme, of course, was a lie. As NSA insiders have pointed out for years, most if not all of the current illegal collections programs began before 9/11, but the false flag events of September 11th provided the perfect justification for the revelation and expansion of those programs...."

So? What would one expect after the attacks? Business as usual? Surveillance would naturally increase after 9/11, as it did after Madrid, London and Bali. National Security Agency denotes it is their responsibility to perform just such tasks, and yet many view this with surprise.

slaphead Typical spin from Global Research, though. I suppose a believer would have to be convinced that 9/11 was a False Flag attack, despite the idea being a little 'on the fringe'.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 02/04/14 12:52 AM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Tue 02/04/14 12:55 AM

laugh

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Mon 02/03/14 11:40 PM

Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviors.

This produces a feeling of discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance etc.

For example, when people smoke (behavior) and they know that smoking causes cancer (cognition).

Festinger's (1957) cognitive dissonance theory suggests that we have an inner drive to hold all our attitudes and beliefs in harmony and avoid disharmony (or dissonance).
http://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html


It would appear the 'cognitive dissonance' is the latest misused term projected onto anyone that doesn't agree with the user. I hope this heralds the demise of the much misunderstood and abused term 'in denial' for such cases.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Thu 01/30/14 06:13 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Thu 01/30/14 06:22 PM



Whose rational is accepted is the X factor. Because YOU believe something to be true or rational does not make it so.
Perhaps Your rational becomes the question...... defend that as anything other than more opinion!


Not this poorly developed sophistry again? You really need another form of rhetoric as this is getting tired. I know many use this specious argument to justify their irrational and hysterical notions, but sorry, I'm not buying this garbage. You and I have been through this before and you still haven't produced anything that could be considered coherent on the subject. Facts are facts, unsupported rants and stories are just unsupported rants and stories. Any attempt to blur the line using amateur philosophical fallacies is just intellectually dishonest.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 01/29/14 04:32 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Wed 01/29/14 04:33 PM



http://www.tctimes.com/news/it-s-true-because-the-internet-said-so-right/article_cbb36a80-8373-11e3-965b-0019bb2963f4.html


According to the Internet, it was President Abraham Lincoln who said, “The problem with Internet quotes is that you can’t always depend on their accuracy.” The sentence is often used to point out how unreliable some information can be when it comes to websites. If you found yourself questioning whether Lincoln’s ‘quote’ was ever true, it may be time to visit new sites.

 If you’re looking for the most useful and persuasive information, try to find information that is objective, which Merriam Webster defines as “based on facts rather than feelings or opinions.”
......



In order to get the best, most well-rounded view of an issue, people should read from multiple websites and news sources. While news outlets should strive to remain objective and keep their opinions out of reporting, that is not always the case. While these websites listed by the Times is a good start, consider reading from as many different viewpoints as possible. Conservative, liberal, independent, feminist, patriarchal, religious, secular — the more opinions and facts you are exposed to, the more you can strengthen your own criticisms and opinions.


Many are incapable of determining fact from opinion, nor are they able to critique sources and we see this repeatedly on internet message boards and forums. The ability to critique sources with a modicum of objectivity is usually the realm of the graduate and not the average person. Furthermore, the ability to read a wide range of material won't guarantee any form of objectivity. Many will dismiss something out of hand based upon personal prejudice and confirmation bias, while others lack the empathy required to assess a point of view on its merits. Let's face it, many armchair politicians/historians/psychologists/generals or whatever really don't know a subject beyond a somewhat superficial understanding of the complexities and relationships involved for a given topic.


that's true,

I have 'heard' many things that were also posted on the internet a million times over , but from 'opinion' pieces which offered no FACTUAL or verifiable reference,,,

which causes me to look FURTHER for what has a verifiable and reliable source,, but then many will feel the source the information is ABOUT is dishonest and so will rely on sources that are just reiterating allegations about the source,,,




its a balancing act, but still, its best not to just believe anything that supports our biases, without further verification of its source, reliability, and the FACTs included as opposed to the spins and opinions,,,


I think the key is remaining rational and use logic to assess a claim. Spin is simple to identify, as is an opinion, however, the facts are often disguised in this mix, but they become easy to discern with practice and by simply employing reason. Just don't give in to alarmist hysteria and remain focussed upon reality.


HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 01/29/14 03:05 PM

but of course, why else would the army build blimps?slaphead


Well, it makes much more sense than the paranoid notions of "dey be watchin' us". I mean, do you seriously believe this would be done for reasons other than security?

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Wed 01/29/14 03:04 PM



is Washington in danger of low flying missiles now?


It is believed that on 9/11, UA93 was destined for the WH or the Capitol Building.


i was thinking WH... i also think it was shot down by the government... not that they had a choice but to shoot it down...


Well, there is absolutely no evidence to support this story, so it belongs in the realm of fantasy with the rest of 9/11 truth.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 01/28/14 03:44 PM

This idea of floating blimps with radar is nothing new. The military has been running such a system for the past 30 years. This predates Obama by decades. It's probably just the DoD and ICE.


Exactly, and coupled with the threat of more terror attacks, the initiative makes sense. I fail to see how this will limit one's freedom without resorting to the usual hyperbole.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Tue 01/28/14 03:43 PM

is Washington in danger of low flying missiles now?


It is believed that on 9/11, UA93 was destined for the WH or the Capitol Building.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Mon 01/27/14 09:59 PM

A theory (applicable mathematical solution you can correlate with other sciences) is when it shows testable results of reproducible experimentation, observation in nature and the findings survive peer review.
Hypotheses start from the opposite end. You assert and falsify.

You can start with a hypothesis and it winds up as a theorum, but more often theorum are discovered independently and hypotheses point the directions.


The important mathematical point about Hawking's hypothesis is that it fixes a core paradox with the only transmissible black hole solution, the Reissner-Nordstroem. It's the only one which actually relates to collapsed stars (the kerr and static solutions are too rudimentary to be likely as literal physical objects, they just took a crack at specific properties).

The problem wiht a real black hole is that if it matched the best model we've got for them, they have a paradox once you get to a certain mass, something like 15-solar masses.

The static field and event horizons cross.

That would mean you have a naked singularity ring roaming around the universe. It's about as realistic as a dragon.
It was always the major problem with the conventional black hole model, that's why string theorists came up with fuzzy stars and things like that.

Hawking's idea seems to try to cross the bridge between fuzzy stars and conventional solutions, most importantly it suggests the naked singularity paradox isn't a problem. That's important, tells us how close our math is to reality.


Thank you, that was quite informative, but be careful about the dragon thing on here. winking

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Mon 01/27/14 09:36 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Mon 01/27/14 09:50 PM

http://www.tctimes.com/news/it-s-true-because-the-internet-said-so-right/article_cbb36a80-8373-11e3-965b-0019bb2963f4.html


According to the Internet, it was President Abraham Lincoln who said, “The problem with Internet quotes is that you can’t always depend on their accuracy.” The sentence is often used to point out how unreliable some information can be when it comes to websites. If you found yourself questioning whether Lincoln’s ‘quote’ was ever true, it may be time to visit new sites.

 If you’re looking for the most useful and persuasive information, try to find information that is objective, which Merriam Webster defines as “based on facts rather than feelings or opinions.”
......



In order to get the best, most well-rounded view of an issue, people should read from multiple websites and news sources. While news outlets should strive to remain objective and keep their opinions out of reporting, that is not always the case. While these websites listed by the Times is a good start, consider reading from as many different viewpoints as possible. Conservative, liberal, independent, feminist, patriarchal, religious, secular — the more opinions and facts you are exposed to, the more you can strengthen your own criticisms and opinions.


Many are incapable of determining fact from opinion, nor are they able to critique sources and we see this repeatedly on internet message boards and forums. The ability to critique sources with a modicum of objectivity is usually the realm of the graduate and not the average person. Furthermore, the ability to read a wide range of material won't guarantee any form of objectivity. Many will dismiss something out of hand based upon personal prejudice and confirmation bias, while others lack the empathy required to assess a point of view on its merits. Let's face it, many armchair politicians/historians/psychologists/generals or whatever really don't know a subject beyond a somewhat superficial understanding of the complexities and relationships involved for a given topic.

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