ZPicante


ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 04/07/10 01:32 AM Topic: Oh, Good! My Site's Still Here! Edited by ZPicante on Wed 04/07/10 01:32 AM
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GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO! please!

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 04/07/10 01:31 AM Topic: Oh, Good! My Site's Still Here!
So, guys. Tell me about your philosophies. AND I MEAN NOW.

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 04/07/10 01:23 AM Topic: Oh, Good! My Site's Still Here!
who me? no, you can't be... PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!! HELP ME! Oh, OH no. Ohohohohohohoh....

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 04/07/10 01:08 AM Topic: Oh, Good! My Site's Still Here!
Hey. HEY!!! I'm talkin' to you!!

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 04/07/10 01:02 AM Topic: Oh, Good! My Site's Still Here!
Hey gooys!! ACH! ACH!! I AM SO FREAKIN' BORED!! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Tue 02/23/10 05:36 PM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Tue 02/23/10 05:38 PM
You can believe in something without having to witness it for yourself. Do you admit that all matter is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons? Have you ever seen any of those? Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence. It is extremely arrogant of humans to believe that we are the pinacle of intelligence and advanced life in a universe containing millions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars and billions of planets. Difference: Scientists have witnessed those things. They actually have been observed and proven to exist. So, try that bit of logic. Yes, well; absence of evidence is also not allowance to assume whatever you want is true and imagine it factual. Very "pithy" and overly-regurgitated, and all, but also not leave to assume whatever you want, pretending assumptions and imaginings to be as concrete as things that actually have evidence confirming their existence. Who believes that? I never said I did; it is POSSIBLE, just not factual. We work with what we have--so, until aliens or whatever appear, let's go with the empirical. How's that grab ya?

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sun 02/07/10 09:57 PM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Sun 02/07/10 10:04 PM
Z, on your profile you say you're a "Christian - other". Wouldn't angels or demons be considered other worldly entities, or if you will; alien? It seems that you may actually believe in aliens, just not in the classic sense Uh. No. It is supernatural versus natural--aliens, if they did exist, would still be natural, physical beings...obviously? o_O How do we know that these "aliens" are part of the natural, physical world and aren't supernatural? How do we know that what we are calling aliens in this modern time aren't the same beings that the people of ancient times called angels and demons? Certain people in the Bible physically saw angels so apparently they can manifest themselves in this physical world Not saying that's what I believe, just something I've tossed around in my head a bit Okay. <:\| Please, calm down. There is no need to get so troubled, miss. This is really cool, by the way. Why not conflate every religion and philosophy and conspiracy theory together? Yes! That sounds like a good time to me, that's for sure. Rubs eyes If God created another (human-like) species elsewhere--on another planet, in another galaxy, in another dimension, etc.--it is of no consequence to us--if not only because we will most likely never interact; and, since we have not, that sentiment presently stands. But, guess what? Whatever "they" would be would not fall into the category of the "supernatural," anyway. If anything, "they" would simply fall under a different definition of "natural"--"natural" would mean something else to them. Why? First, because "natural" is a relative term. Second, because they would still be created beings, beings that do not fall under the category of "angels" because they were a specific group designated for a specific task (being in the presence of God and serving Him there and on earth when commanded [among other odd things in Revelation that are too convoluted to delve into right now]); 1/3 of them fell and became known as demons. A little lesson in Christian theology for you there. Point being, aliens would not be and will never be synonymous with angels or demons. Elijah taken up in a "chariot of fire", Ezikiel's wheel within a wheel, stars (angels) falling from the heavens, satan a talking reptile (serpent) in the garden, not to mention Revelations.... I'm just saying there may be a connection. That is all .....mister Thanks for the theology 101 too. May have been news to me ten years ago :\| Contextual interpretation. Very important; a big part of Theology 101, as it happens. <:\| Allegorizing and imposing aliens (or whatever) on the text sure seems like fun, kids, until the flying bricks come. Guess who's throwing those bricks? How logical is it to dismiss something out of hand, and claim that everyone who has ever seen something, including military personnel, are on drugs or out of their minds?? My logic is solid; you just dismissed it out of hand. You obviously haven't read a word I wrote; otherwise, you would be convinced! IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU ARE MILITARY PERSONNEL OR A SCHOOL JANITOR WHO CLAIMED TO HAVE SEEN THESE THINGS. THEY ARE ANECDOTAL, CIRCUMSTANTIAL ACCOUNTS--NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE. UNLESS PHYSICAL, CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE OF THESE CREATURES' EXISTENCE IS UNCOVERED, NO ONE--I MEAN, NO ONE--SHOULD CARE WHAT THESE 'EYE WITNESSES' HAVE TO SAY ABOUT SOMETHING ALREADY SO DUBIOUS--IN FACT, PUT THOSE "TESTIMONIES" ON THE SAME SHELF AS THE SNAKE OIL. (UNFORTUNATELY, PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY THEM BOTH.) ... >:\| The funny thing is, everyone I have run into that argues the same positions you do always falls back to " I'm just thinking logically " when, in fact, dismissal of an idea using broad generalizations with no basis FOR those generalizations, is far from logical. Heh. Well, the casual dismissal of an idea that has in reality no logical basis itself whatsoever is probably the best kind of idea to dismiss. Why should I have to provide a basis for disregarding something that has not even been proven to be definitive in the first place? My logic is thorough and well-thought-out, anyway; my logic is not the problem here. The problem is what one does with the information available: You take a few odd occurrences and superimpose presuppositions over it and draw absolute conclusions about things that are not even close to being absolute--that is a problem. I look at these phenomena, think they're odd, but do not base my abstract conceptions of aliens on these events. You can theorize up the wazoo, but it's useless; better to wait for some decisive evidence, which is what I'm doing and will do until the day I die. It's also not " logical " to think that, with all the billions of stars in the Universe, that we are the only life form out there. Let's read a little more closely, shall we? I never said aliens couldn't or even don't exist; I said we do not know they exist and therefore should not automatically conclude that they do until we have some hard evidence. Anything is possible; but that does not mean that it is actual. Understand that, otherwise, you "might" look like a raving looney!

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sun 02/07/10 04:13 AM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Sun 02/07/10 04:17 AM
Z, on your profile you say you're a "Christian - other". Wouldn't angels or demons be considered other worldly entities, or if you will; alien? It seems that you may actually believe in aliens, just not in the classic sense Uh. No. It is supernatural versus natural--aliens, if they did exist, would still be natural, physical beings...obviously? o_O How do we know that these "aliens" are part of the natural, physical world and aren't supernatural? How do we know that what we are calling aliens in this modern time aren't the same beings that the people of ancient times called angels and demons? Certain people in the Bible physically saw angels so apparently they can manifest themselves in this physical world Not saying that's what I believe, just something I've tossed around in my head a bit Okay. <:\| Please, calm down. There is no need to get so troubled, miss. This is really cool, by the way. Why not conflate every religion and philosophy and conspiracy theory together? Yes! That sounds like a good time to me, that's for sure. Rubs eyes If God created another (human-like) species elsewhere--on another planet, in another galaxy, in another dimension, etc.--it is of no consequence to us--if not only because we will most likely never interact; and, since we have not, that sentiment presently stands. But, guess what? Whatever "they" would be would not fall into the category of the "supernatural," anyway. If anything, "they" would simply fall under a different definition of "natural"--"natural" would mean something else to them. Why? First, because "natural" is a relative term. Second, because they would still be created beings, beings that do not fall under the category of "angels" because they were a specific group designated for a specific task (being in the presence of God and serving Him there and on earth when commanded [among other odd things in Revelation that are too convoluted to delve into right now]); 1/3 of them fell and became known as demons. A little lesson in Christian theology for you there. Point being, aliens would not be and will never be synonymous with angels or demons.

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sun 02/07/10 01:43 AM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Sun 02/07/10 01:50 AM
QUOTE: As for aliens, no one has seen them apart from semi-conscious (pre- or post-sleep) states and after having been heavily medicated during surgery or inside a Science-Fiction story or film. So, we should favor that "alternative" explanation, why...? It's very obvious that you have done no research to support your position, so your sweeping generalizations about the various conditions of the people involved is not supporting your argument in any way. HA! Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, you, okay. Were being serious. Excuse me. Ha! I'm sorry, so sorry, but what "research" would you like me to do? Look up all these magical, personal anecdotes--"eye witness accounts"--and what? What then? Just simply buy into it all? No. My argument's basis is logic, pure logic--no, just plain common sense. People's perception is flawed--people lie--people can quite easily lie, just because they want to be famous or feel special. Or, they just saw a military aircraft of some kind. Or perhaps they were doing drugs--all of these are quite more probable than aliens! You honestly don't think it is a grand, GRAND assumption to say that these "sightings" are alien? That's NOT an assumption? Why not avoid seeming eccentric until some hard, tangible evidence is found--like, I don't know, a physical alien being, for instance? Even an alien freakin' craft--an alien pair of boots. Alien contact lenses. Anything. And I don't mean images that one might find on one of those "debunking" websites eventually; I mean physical evidence from a legit' source. QUOTE: Like, uh, "Tribles" goes on to say, UFO's are pretty much synonymous with aliens. End of story. Why shouldn't there be a rational explanation--well, there is one; there is no evidence, not one ounce, that these "phenomena" have anything to do with non-human entities of any kind. No one has ever seen a non-human, extraterrestrial life form, so, why should we not now divert to a RATIONAL--if not wholly conclusive--explanation, prefer an infinitely more rational explanation, over some convoluted whack-story only substantiated by fantasy, speculation, and imagined tangible evidence? Again, having done no research whatsoever, your sweeping generalization of there being " no evidence " are misinformed. As is your blanket statement that " no one has ever seen " an alien life form. Yes, well, anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Do we have the body of an alien life form anywhere? Oh, do you have one? I'll believe you if you send it to me; or just a piece of its antenna. That'll do. There is no tangible evidence. None. Zero. Zilch. Show me the fruition of some "research" that involves tangible evidence, and I'll be...vaguely willing to look at it. QUOTE: why should we not now divert to a RATIONAL--if not wholly conclusive--explanation, prefer an infinitely more rational explanation, over some convoluted whack-story only substantiated by fantasy, speculation, and imagined tangible evidence? Again, you speak from a position of no knowledge whatsoever. The evidence, in many, MANY cases, is far from being " imagined ". The " infinitely more rational " explanations you speak of are actually far from being rational in some cases. You make blind generalizations, speak with no knowledge at all, and basically insult anyone who thinks differently than you do. That's fine. You go ahead and keep doing that. For every case you could ( but refuse to ) come up with where there was a " rational " explanation, there are several that weren't rationally explained. But hey. You would refuse to accept that and just swallow whatever it is you are fed. And, uh, again, there is no "knowledge" to be had beyond circumstantial claims. Oh yes, my blindness prevails. How ever will I see the light? The green, undulating lights from above? Show me any "case" where tangible evidence is uncovered. Any one. Just one. No, not arbitrary claims, physical evidence. I want to see the aliens myself. Or should I just believe these "eye witnesses"? I've seen a UFO with my own eyes so I cannot doubt their existence. Not just a light in the sky either, it was a large, slow moving, silent, v-shaped craft that looked the size of a football field. There were half a dozen people with me too who all saw it slowly fly by for a few minutes. Years later, I decided to look on the internet about it cause it intrigued me and many others have described seeing the same UFO Personally though, I think their secret military aircraft and not invaders from outer space. Who knows though. ... Example of a more rational explanation. Z, on your profile you say you're a "Christian - other". Wouldn't angels or demons be considered other worldly entities, or if you will; alien? It seems that you may actually believe in aliens, just not in the classic sense Uh. No. It is supernatural versus natural--aliens, if they did exist, would still be natural, physical beings...obviously? o_O

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sat 02/06/10 10:46 PM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Sat 02/06/10 10:52 PM
If it were a mere "unidentified flying object," sans said connotations, then, well, I doubt there were would be so much hullabaloo about this. So, a bunch of people saw something "odd" and indeed "unidentifiable" in the sky. And? Who really cares? Does this affect our lives? I have no doubt that it does NOT in the slightest! So...if there is something in the skies over the United States...or ANY country, that the military can't explain....that would have no effect on our lives at all?? But yet, people are terrified of terrorist attacks?? I'm pretty sure the government and military would be pretty concerned about it. Yeah, that's what I said. Well, terrorist attacks have actually happened. Terrorists are real--have, well, been observed in reality. I think that may be the main reason why the government would be concerned about those things. As for aliens, no one has seen them apart from semi-conscious (pre- or post-sleep) states and after having been heavily medicated during surgery or inside a Science-Fiction story or film. So, we should favor that "alternative" explanation, why...? Have you actually looked into any of the reports, such as the one a O'Hare airport a couple of years ago....or Mexico City where THOUSANDS reported the object...or the mass sighting over Washington D.C.???? Or do you dismiss them out of hand because someone sez they were swamp gas or ball lightning or they were just mass hallucinations??? No, I have not looked at the "reports" myself--nor would that make any difference whatsoever. Subjective, spurious, circumstantial! Take your pick--all these adjectives apply to such accounts! Like, uh, "Tribles" goes on to say, UFO's are pretty much synonymous with aliens. End of story. Why shouldn't there be a rational explanation--well, there is one; there is no evidence, not one ounce, that these "phenomena" have anything to do with non-human entities of any kind. No one has ever seen a non-human, extraterrestrial life form, so, why should we not now divert to a RATIONAL--if not wholly conclusive--explanation, prefer an infinitely more rational explanation, over some convoluted whack-story only substantiated by fantasy, speculation, and imagined tangible evidence? I think it's almost impossible NOT to equate UFO's with aliens.Why don't people take eye witness accounts of "UFO's" seriously?Let's just say with a criminal trial or whatever there is always some kind of materalistic proof....like a dead body, or drugs,or a weapon, or some kind of fradulent document.Now with UFO's all we really have to go by are grainy pics, or vids.Still no materlistic proof of UFO's as of yet.I'm sure if you saw a guy kill a man, and was asked if he killed that man you would say yes.If you didn't see that same man kill a man(even though he still did)you answer wouldn't be so clear would it? Exactly.

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Fri 02/05/10 10:14 PM Topic: Now here's an odd thought Edited by ZPicante on Fri 02/05/10 10:17 PM
I'd still like to see what people's thoughts are about why in a court of law, eyewitness testimony is sometimes very important.... But...eyewitnesses in a UFO case, even if they are normally considered completely honest and reliable....are somehow " lessened " when reporting a UFO sighting. Because UFO's--"outer space aliens"--aren't real. And anyone, regardless of their occupation, who claims to have seen one has officially lost their mind, negating any authority, and is currently living in a fairy land. Here's my question to that statement. What was it that convinced you that " outer space aliens " don't exist?? Was it because someone said so and you simply believed them? Is it because you can't accept the fact that they might, indeed, exist?? I am not going to be trying to insult anyone here. I am genuinely curious. That means I am going to question some of the statements I may see. Ha--oh, yes. I'm in denial. That's the real problem here. In reference to this and some previous comments, let's do a little defining here, shall we? I know understanding these things is tricky, tricky stuff! UFO (acronym): Unidentified Flying Object. Now, this is not so important to understand as the connotations it has come to gather, from lunatic "pioneers," mainly--it has come to imply not a mere object that is unidentified, but an object--a spaceship, actually--that is suspected to be occupied by extraterrestrials. Deny these connotations, and you are kidding yourselves. If it were a mere "unidentified flying object," sans said connotations, then, well, I doubt there were would be so much hullabaloo about this. So, a bunch of people saw something "odd" and indeed "unidentifiable" in the sky. And? Who really cares? Does this affect our lives? I have no doubt that it does NOT in the slightest! Unless anyone can prove that these unidentifiable and--I have no doubt whatsoever--logically or scientifically explicable phenomena somehow relate to aliens, no one cares--no one should care and anyone who does care is a conspiracy theorist. Period. Unfortunately most people, of any age, are more concerned with their own insignificant lives than the future of the species as a whole. / True enough. But, I think, as those people grow older, they start to think about more than just themselves. Okay, are we done with the age discrimination comments now, or what? Let's give not doing that again a try. Or, keep it up, and see what happens. Got news for ya, pallies; your lives are pretty darn insignificant, as well, no matter how "keen" you are about imagining aliens in other galaxies or whatever. Fact is, until the invention of long-term space travel or until these alleged "outer space aliens" choose to communicate with us, guess we're not ever going to be even distantly affected by their existences. So, the point of hypothesizing about them is...? Why, there is no point, is there?! ...Unless you're a great science fiction author, a reality I doubt even more than aliens' existence (at the moment--until some real evidence appears). How's that grab ya, captain?

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Thu 02/04/10 01:51 AM Topic: Now here's an odd thought
I'd still like to see what people's thoughts are about why in a court of law, eyewitness testimony is sometimes very important.... But...eyewitnesses in a UFO case, even if they are normally considered completely honest and reliable....are somehow " lessened " when reporting a UFO sighting. Because UFO's--"outer space aliens"--aren't real. And anyone, regardless of their occupation, who claims to have seen one has officially lost their mind, negating any authority, and is currently living in a fairy land. The End. (Note also: Eyewitnesses usually don't witness things whose existence is in question; murders, robberies, car crashes, etc. actually occur; no one questions that. Having "police" or "firefighting" credentials is so irrelevant to the point of justifying aliens' existence and is so ridiculous a dichotomy that it actually pained me to write that. Just now. They could pay anyone "of authority" to say they saw something alien, first of all, and even if they truly thought they *did" see something, what on earth difference does it make what job they work, what "authority" they have, in such a context? Their account is still specious as anyone else's! Unless the "aliens" they saw were on fire or planning a drug heist, I doubt those individuals had any authoritative input on the matter! Agh!)

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sun 01/31/10 11:28 PM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Sun 01/31/10 11:31 PM
well i like to have a nice conversation about different perspectives on things every once in a while no matter which dictionary is used. i don't strive for precision in such discussions or reality for that matter. i just wanna have fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A Freakin' Existentialism. ... Okay. :\| Precision is food for veracity--which is why I always am precise and, subsequently, always correct. So, that might be worth considering. And frankly, and this may be a bit "touchy" to say, but defining something as critical to humanity as sex [how mankind subsists, how we most intimately relate, how we pass on a piece of ourselves by fostering a new generation--our children] seems like an important thing. If it is not defined in a clear way--or not defined at all--how is anyone to understand what it is, let alone what it means, its significance? Or its probable [damaging, even dangerous] consequences? Sure, we all "wanna have fun," but adopting such a flippant attitude as a life philosophy--well, I think that's where the STD's, teen pregnancies, adultery, sexual perversion [such as pedophilia, rape, incest, etc.), and the like come in. Viewing sex as some sort of amusement ride can be and has often been an extremely injurious choice--for all involved. Or, we could just keep having "fun." That has worked for us so well so far.

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Sun 01/31/10 03:21 AM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Sun 01/31/10 03:50 AM
i will go back to the universally accepted definition. r=constant. appears pretty concrete, actual, specific and yes, ideas are real. they are all over the place! they can be real, boring or fantastic math is a good sphere of reference. Not really. "r=constant" is not real anymore than Nihilism or Calculus or Jealousy are real. They're representative, intangible--as all ideas and concepts are. Ideas are manifested through action [i.e. verbalization, the written word, physical action, etc.), but they themselves are intangible--which brings me to... my reference was Merriam's i would still say that real and abstract are not antonyms... even the ideal sphere is real. i did go so far as to look it up here: http://www.synonym.com/antonym/real/ there were 9 instances of real - of the 9, only 1 of them was related somehow to abstract... interestingly, abstract did not make the list here... (but it was the only place i looked) instance 7 notes real in its very limited sense real as in material. but this is a real stretch imho the real antonym of real is more in the sense of unreal ie. fantastic - as in sense 1 of the above reference Sense 1: real (vs. unreal), existent unreal (vs. real) dreamed(prenominal)envisioned, pictured, visualized, visualisedeye-deceiving, trompe-l'oeil(prenominal)fabled, legendaryfabricated, fancied, fictional, fictitiousfabulous, mythic, mythical, mythologic, mythologicalfanciful, imaginary, notionalfantastic, fantasticalhallucinatoryillusional, illusionaryillusive, illusorymake-believe, pretend loving someone - desiring them, fantasizing about them, - is among the most powerful motivations. it inspires artistry, and can bond individuals, and change people. and although love may inspire fantasy, and can sometimes not be real love but can be itself a fantasy... real love is real. and it changes us. once we have truly loved we gain a certain perspective... so love is one of those intangible yet very real things... Obviously, you and I are considering different definitions of "real," what real is. To make this more sensible, it must be confessed that everyone operates [at least in part] under their own "definitions" and understanding of what "real" means. Here, for the sake of discussion, I was going for "real" as in "tangible, sensory, concrete, etc." versus "abstract" as in "intangible, extrasensory, conceptual, etc." Of course, each word has varying definitions based on what freakin' dictionary you reference and what sub-definitions you look at, but, just kind of, you have to look at what definitions pertain to the discussion at hand. Okay?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!?!??!?!?!?! ?! INTELLECTUALIZATION OF REALITY_______________ I've never thought referring to Dictionaries would be necessary for answering such a straight-forwqard question as Is sex a Force or desire? WHAT THE WORLD IS COMMING TO??? It relates; in defining sex and whether it is a solely physical interaction or if there are intangible, abstract connotations, which is where this mini-tangent originated. I was aruging that sex has [or can have, I guess] both physical and abstract connotations. He began questioning my definition of these terms. Review over. >;) Also, that question isn't really straightforward, anyway, apparently. o_O

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Fri 01/29/10 09:41 PM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Fri 01/29/10 09:51 PM
SEX IS NOT A FORCE NOR A DESIRE. Quoted for truth. Let's try also, the abstract--including the ideal, even--do not exist. They do not. Cannot. Do not. Repeat. Reality DOES exist, is real. Quoted for truth. Calling something blatantly wrong "(a) philosophy" does not make it more legit'. Why not just call it casual discussion, instead? Because I have seen largely little truly definable as philosophy ("the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct") in this discussion Qft. Sometimes I imagine how beautiful the world would be if only we all practiced good thinking skills. Comprehension, ftw! Thank you. abstract and real are not antonyms! laugh Main Entry: 1ab·stract Pronunciation: \ab-ˈstrakt, ˈab-ˌ\ Function: adjective Etymology: Medieval Latin abstractus, from Latin, past participle of abstrahere to drag away, from abs-, ab- + trahere to pull, draw Date: 14th century 1 a : disassociated from any specific instance <an abstract entity> b : difficult to understand : abstruse <abstract problems> c : insufficiently factual : formal <possessed only an abstract right> 2 : expressing a quality apart from an object <the word poem is concrete, poetry is abstract> 3 a : dealing with a subject in its abstract aspects : theoretical <abstract science> b : impersonal, detached <the abstract compassion of a surgeon — Time> 4 : having only intrinsic form with little or no attempt at pictorial representation or narrative content <abstract painting> — ab·stract·ly \ab-ˈstrak(t)-lē, ˈab-ˌ\ adverb — ab·stract·ness \ab-ˈstrak(t)-nəs, ˈab-ˌ\ noun and Main Entry: re·al·i·ty Pronunciation: \rē-ˈa-lə-tē\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural re·al·i·ties Date: 1550 1 : the quality or state of being real 2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality> b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily 3 : television programming that features videos of actual occurrences (as a police chase, stunt, or natural disaster) —often used attributively <reality TV> — in reality : in actual fact laugh the idealized abstract sphere exits. it is an actual fact. this is what I meant. r=constant is its definition. it is as real as it gets. so, I am not sure what you mean precisely. but there is not contradiction between reality and abstraction. abstraction is a part of reality not fantasy. fantasy is the unicorn. spheres exist. unitorns do not. a better antonym for reality is fantasy. but we have not been discussing fantasies. desire and forces are real, sex is real.... thinking that abstract things are unreal however... that is unreal! laugh laugh laugh Except, Captain Clumsy, you failed realize you did NOT look up the definitions for "abstract" and "real," but "abstract" and "reality." A big, big difference you seem unable to grasp. Nouns versus adjectives--descriptive versus nominal [I suppose you could say]. Big difference. Take a look [dictionary.com, first definition]: ab⋅strac⋅tion /æbˈstrækʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ab-strak-shuhn] Show IPA Use abstraction in a Sentence See images of abstraction Search abstraction on the Web –noun 1. an abstract or general idea or term. What, an idea? ARE IDEAS TANGIBLE THINGS?! I JUST DON'T KNOW! 2. the act of considering something as a general quality or characteristic, apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances. 3. an impractical idea; something visionary and unrealistic. 4. the act of taking away or separating; withdrawal: The sensation of cold is due to the abstraction of heat from our bodies. 5. secret removal, esp. theft. 6. absent-mindedness; inattention; mental absorption. 7. Fine Arts. a. the abstract qualities or characteristics of a work of art. b. a work of art, esp. a nonrepresentational one, stressing formal relationships. Even the other definitions there [art-related even] help reinforce my point. You already posted the def. of "reality." Now, if you look up--ACTUALLY LOOK UP CORRECTLY--the definitions of "real" and "abstract" (adjectives, as it happens! "Reality" and "abstraction" are actually nouns!) you will find the same antonymous result. No, I'll do it for you: REAL: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/real ABSTRACT: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abstract First definition--complete and pure opposite. They must be..ANTONYMS?! You do know what an opposite is, don't you, dear boy?

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Fri 01/29/10 01:33 AM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Fri 01/29/10 01:49 AM
some cats like water....like to swim! Not any here, apparently. :\| the way i view the world, life includes gravity and electromagnetism and all the physical forces. they are not dead. they are as intertwined with life they are as alive as the chemical reactions which make up meiosis, mitosis and neuronal transport. in fact, electromagnetism provides the basis of meiosis, mitosis and neuronal transport. Still inanimate forces. They are not alive--no matter how much they "interact with ('act at,' more like)" or "compose" us, their sentient part in that "relationship" is nonexistent; for they are not sentient. Unless gravity/electromagnetism/etc. have central nervous systems we're not aware of, I don't think we have much in common with them. Sure, you can pose weird, abstracted comparisons, but that seems rather pointless. There is nothing personal about gravity, nothing human. It affects us only because that is its natural function. The End. A pause-worthy thought, I admit, but not really viable, in the end; those processes/forces cannot know or relate to or care about us any more than hydrogen or dark matter or a crate of tangerines can. And that matters. next.... abstraction and reality. abstraction is as real as reality. so why not consider the abstract and the real together? there are real ball bearings and there is the abstract idealized perfect sphere. the ball bearings are not perfectly round nor perfectly smooth whereas the abstract ball is...but they are both balls. swbd. it doesn't annoy meeeeee ... ... ... Well, how 'bout, that is the single most absurd thing I have ever read? The...abstract and the real are NOT the same. THAT'SWHYTHEYHAVEDIFFERENT--OPPOSITE-MEANING--NAMES!! Why are they not the same? Well, I'm going to tell you: For the love of all that's decent, they are antonyms! ANTONYMS! They literally mean the exact opposite! Look up one, you will find the other (under "antonyms") in any thesaurus in the universe (even in another universe, by freakin' gravy). My word; I think my brain wants to shut down from the sheer absurdity of it all. Let's try also, the abstract--including the ideal, even--do not exist. They do not. Cannot. Do not. Repeat. Reality DOES exist, is real. Can you discuss BOTH REAL THINGS AND ABSTRACT THINGS? Why, of course you can! But let's not pretend they are the same, okay, Dragonlilly? physical interaction is already very accurately defined. it is in textbooks. although it is always changing too. the same can be said for most trains of philosophical thought. so go ahead JUMP in! the water's FINE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSyB5xSo2U Apparently not accurately enough for everyone to comprehend it! THAT is the problem. Was I questioning the veracity of those definitions? No! I was proffering their validity quite violently and repeatedly. Well, following that, if we are to dismiss the validity of information (try, humanity's holistic collection of theories and facts) simply because it is mutable, then perhaps we cannot even trust that gravity actually keeps us on earth; maybe it's actually pulling us away, lifting us, one by one, into outer space. Certain things are valid and will be valid until the end of time. Just because we come to understand deeper meaning to these "basic" functions of the universe does not mitigate their immutability or credibility. Our understanding of them may change, but they remain the same (relatively, heh). Calling something blatantly wrong "(a) philosophy" does not make it more legit'. Why not just call it casual discussion, instead? Because I have seen largely little truly definable as philosophy ("the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct") in this discussion. So yes. And no. I refuse. :\| Sorry, ZPicante, perhaps I was a bit too hard on you... But there's no reason for grading peoples' responses as if it is a high school quiz! Everyone's entitled to her/his opinion inspite of it's correctness! Obviously, your correct - from the text-book perspective. But, personally, I'm more interested in the philosophical perspective of the matter than a purely logical one! So, Won't you find a bit of a tolerance with the "stupid kids"??? Thank you for your consideration; but don't worry; I'm a wall. Nothin' gets through--but even if it did, I'm enough of a platonic masochist, too, to absorb the pain of a metaphorical oncoming train. So, don't sweat it. Please. Is that really--really--a textbook perspective? I hope, for the love of sweet Georgia, that that would be common knowledge. Guess not? Oh well....

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Thu 01/28/10 02:24 AM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Thu 01/28/10 02:39 AM
ZPicante: *SEX IS A BIOLOGICAL ACTION, DRIVEN BY* FORCES AND DESIRES.** I'm going to refute that point -- AFTER YOU TELL ME, HOW MUCH IS 2+2??? (I mean, can't people freely practice philosophy without always being burdened by adolescent text-book fricks? ? ?) Heh, 5. Philosophy is all well and good; when it makes sense--when it, like most [legit'] forms and functions of a deep, thoughtful study--is reasonable. <:\| oh alright - fair enough. but that misses the essence of the OP's question in a cut and dried way. it is more interesting to think of the question - "what is the nature of our deepest desires". sure there are chemicals, pheromones and psychological factors. our education, what we see in each other which we admire or what disappoints us. sex and/or feelings of love or attachment are a response to a combination of all of these factors which influence our desire - fueling our need for another. the original question might not be optimally posed. but it opened up a box of questions which started a conversation and even inspired a song! (which was quite good by the way) the OP also raises the question: "how does the inspiration one feels to bond with another person compare to physical forces of nature such as gravity or electromagnetic attraction?" these are very different things but they all are forces in a manner of speaking that result in action and it can be argued that our inspiration is more fundamental because without inspiration there would be no humanity in the various physical things that happen everyday - there would be merely apples falling and magnets sticking to stuff in a kind of antiseptic inhuman clockwork. it is the human creativity part which makes it all fun and interesting... and so, i leave you with a musical version of the commentary above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzzIuxy_0EQ know what i mean? Thank you. Yes, I do. And yes, I agree: The original, the title's, question is too simplistic--yet, I believe even it has been muddled and "answered" quite nonsensically and, frankly, incorrectly, by multiple people--which saddens me deeply, because it is a basic question. Subsequent, more complex questions provoked by the original are something else; but if you can't even distinguish what sex--at its basest--is, then further discussion seems quite useless. Saying, "oh, sex is desire," "sex is a force" (or whatever) not only are untrue things to say, but also specious and overly-regurgitated, trying way too freakin' hard to sound mystical and deep. They're not. And they're simply not true. Heh, technically, one could even explain the "inspiration" behind sex as a biological function, as well, from an extreme Naturalistic perspective--physical and social stimuli provoking certain emotions, hormones, pheromones, actions, yes, etc., as you said. But I do not believe that; I believe said physical interaction must be defined correctly before deeper, broader, more complex meaning may be understood and discussed effectively. If you stop there, at a base definition, it is rather depressing, yes; but jumping right into abstract, ambiguous, vaporous descriptions risks losing the entire picture, as well; yes, sex is a biological action. Know that, then ask: What surrounds it? What draws one to it? What are the philosophical and spiritual connotations of it (if any)? But you do HAVE TO distinguish those abstract things from what it, in reality, is; otherwise, that's just annoying. the OP also raises the question: "how does the inspiration one feels to bond with another person compare to physical forces of nature such as gravity or electromagnetic attraction?" (Yes, double-quoted. Sue me.) Ah, another...unusual question that I discussed ad nauseam, seemingly to no avail, earlier in this thread. Sigh. Still, I'll oblige: It doesn't; those two things do not compare; they have definitively nothing to do with one another. One [sexual drive] is biological, neurological, animate; the other [gravity, electromagnetic attraction, etc.] has to do with physics, inanimate forces. I just...don't want to call sexual drive an inanimate force; it occurs within the brain, the body (and soul, I believe) of a human being, whilst gravity is a natural, "dead" force of the universe that perfunctorily affects anything and everything, almost. One is alive; the other is dead. Where is the comparison? Well, my dear pupils, I must go to sleep now! Terribly sorry to leave you so soon; I know you'll miss me (like a cat misses water). >:O

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 01/27/10 11:21 PM Topic: Is sex is a Force or desire Edited by ZPicante on Wed 01/27/10 11:23 PM
Okay, on-topic, and a final attempt at getting this point across: SEX IS NOT A FORCE NOR A DESIRE. *SEX IS A BIOLOGICAL ACTION, DRIVEN BY* FORCES AND DESIRES.** ... I challenge anyone to disprove that--convincingly. Or even at all. It is an irrefutable distinction--essentially, a straightforward definition. Without that distinction, everything becomes nonsensical, and I defy anyone to refute that point.

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Wed 01/27/10 04:18 PM Topic: My Secret Village
Hi Shasta. How are you? >:\| YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! Soars into the outer atmosphere, then begins plummeting directly for your faces at the speed of sound YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-- EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOW!!

ZPicante Joined Sun 02/03/08 Posts: 1806	Mon 01/25/10 11:31 PM Topic: My Secret Village
here's some grapes too, to wash off. Suddenly adopts an aggressive posture, flashing teeth and readying for a delicious feast of sleeves and other extraneous garment selections Yowt! YEET! ATOUT! >:O Here tree rat !Heres some hotdogs you know what they're made of do'nt you ! Gets ya

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