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| Topic: Other intelligent life and Earth | |
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I read a really cool article about how the "estimated" number of civilizations as advanced or more advanced as the human race existing in the Milky Way Galaxy is ~32,000.
Obviously that number is painfully arbitrary - we don't know nearly enough about life here or conditions elsewhere to make a good guess. But we have to start somewhere! The number is at least 1 (us!) but could be as high as 503,050,313,987. (I made up that number.) So where are all these civilizations?! Why isn't the solar system teeming with mining crews at the asteroid field, solar panels harvesting energy, radio waves, or something of that nature?? My friend and I had a long discussion on why we don't see other civilizations around. Only once has a radio wave of questionable origin reached Earth and been measured (look up the Wow! signal), and even that is some pretty poor evidence. His conclusion: in order to progress far enough technologically to conquer interstellar travel, a species would accidentally obliterate itself through advanced physics experiments. (Like the Hadron Collider.) My conclusion: civilizations advance far enough to the point that they can transfer their brains to computers and they live and exist in simulated paradise worlds. Basically, they cause the extinction of their own species but continue to live in cyber paradise. (Related: would you give up your human body to exist in a computer where you could define the world around you?) What are your thoughts? Why don't we see intelligent life from all over the galaxy hanging around? Is it that there's just no more life out there? The distances are unconquerable? Humans are protected as part of an intergalactic nature reserve? :) |
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I believe your conclusion is pretty close to the mark
now take it a step further and determine: can machine eventually take over the species and run the joint like in the Matrix? |
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Did you ever read "Stranger in a Strange Land"?
A little back story... The martians had developed interstellar travel and communicated with other species. They didn't like the first species they encountered, so they destroyed their planet and the race with it. They decided that interstellar travel was pointless, so they all stayed on Mars and pursued intellectual and artistic goals, while ignoring the outside universe. So maybe all of the aliens have decided that other intelligent species aren't really all that interesting? How would we feel about an alien race that practiced barbarism? How would they feel about our own barbarism? Personally, I don't believe in aliens. I think we are alone in the universe, which makes our lives all the more special. |
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Perhaps there are aliens living on this planet already
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The Matrix?
Don't need it, we are already, our selfs, creating this delusion we call "reality". It helps perpetuate the species without us going too mad. And that is why any "intelligent" aliens would never want to mingle with us. Who knows, insanity may be contagious, and I'm sure we are nothing more than monkeys who gain self-awareness by mirror. |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Mon 11/17/08 11:19 AM
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I read a really cool article about how the "estimated" number of civilizations as advanced or more advanced as the human race existing in the Milky Way Galaxy is ~32,000. Obviously that number is painfully arbitrary - we don't know nearly enough about life here or conditions elsewhere to make a good guess. But we have to start somewhere! The number is at least 1 (us!) but could be as high as 503,050,313,987. (I made up that number.) So where are all these civilizations?! Why isn't the solar system teeming with mining crews at the asteroid field, solar panels harvesting energy, radio waves, or something of that nature?? My friend and I had a long discussion on why we don't see other civilizations around. Only once has a radio wave of questionable origin reached Earth and been measured (look up the Wow! signal), and even that is some pretty poor evidence. His conclusion: in order to progress far enough technologically to conquer interstellar travel, a species would accidentally obliterate itself through advanced physics experiments. (Like the Hadron Collider.) My conclusion: civilizations advance far enough to the point that they can transfer their brains to computers and they live and exist in simulated paradise worlds. Basically, they cause the extinction of their own species but continue to live in cyber paradise. (Related: would you give up your human body to exist in a computer where you could define the world around you?) What are your thoughts? Why don't we see intelligent life from all over the galaxy hanging around? Is it that there's just no more life out there? The distances are unconquerable? Humans are protected as part of an intergalactic nature reserve? :) As to moving our brains into machines: Well ... I guess if one feels compelled to follow a brain around, then that would be a way to preserve it. |
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Well, I feel like life might be A LOT more common then intelligent life.
Think of the millions of species that have populated this earth from the time life began . . . . Think of the one species that has harnessed technology . . . . . If survival is strong without big brains, then there is no selection pressure to get big brains via evolution. I rest my case. |
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Edited by
littleredhen
on
Mon 11/17/08 11:27 AM
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Any intelligent lifeforms would be avoiding Earth like we avoid fireant hills.
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Mon 11/17/08 11:44 AM
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Any intelligent lifeforms would be avoiding Earth like we avoid fireant hills. I doubt that, If a civilization had the capability to travel long distances through space at any kind of speed that would allow them to cross even only half the distance of the galaxy (Milky way is 100K LY diameter) there technology would trump ours by a large magnitude of power . If they where just and fair, then perhaps we would never know they had visited, if they wanted something they could take it. If we are an ant hill, then they are an fully equipped exterminator that gets to choose whether to hose down the colony or not. And to be honest it would not take much to destroy earth for life. A new model of nuclear winter was done, and shown that it would only take a handful of multi-megaton nuclear devices to super heat the atmosphere and destroy the Ozone layer (we would all die of cancer if not protected 100% of the time from the sun, which would leave us vitamin D deficient and die young anyways) We could kill ourselves easily enough. If there are a lot of intelligent races out there, a big reason why we may not see any, is that as they advance into the nuclear age, they may kill themselves off like we may do ourselves if we are not careful. Jeremy. |
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Personally, I don't believe in aliens. I think we are alone in the universe, which makes our lives all the more special. Alone in the universe?! The probability that one and only one planet would evolve intelligent life in the entire universe is tiny. Our existence alone should imply that the universe is teeming with life. Maybe you believe in a higher being who set Earth as the center of his master plan? If that's the case - why bother with building billions of other stars in our galaxy and billions of other galaxies outside of that?? If we're the end-all of importance in the universe, why does the rest of the universe even exist? |
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If there are a lot of intelligent races out there, a big reason why we may not see any, is that as they advance into the nuclear age, they may kill themselves off like we may do ourselves if we are not careful. I definitely considered that, too. Self-obliteration of intelligent species is unfortunate but maybe inevitable. And I definitely agree that life exists all over the universe - maybe not intelligent life everywhere, but I bet life, how we define it, exists. And I bet other planet's organisms that evolved similarly to ours would be amazingly similar. |
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Perhaps there are aliens living on this planet already My friend and I talked about this in our original discussion, too. It's possible. But not very probable. Anyone read Ender's Game? The buggers and the humans couldn't communicate because they had evolved completely different methods of communication - so any attempt to talk to each other would be completely unrecognized and ignored by the other party. Maybe aliens are trying to contact us - just not through channels we can understand. |
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Personally, I don't believe in aliens. I think we are alone in the universe, which makes our lives all the more special. Alone in the universe?! The probability that one and only one planet would evolve intelligent life in the entire universe is tiny. Our existence alone should imply that the universe is teeming with life. Maybe you believe in a higher being who set Earth as the center of his master plan? If that's the case - why bother with building billions of other stars in our galaxy and billions of other galaxies outside of that?? If we're the end-all of importance in the universe, why does the rest of the universe even exist? For an omnipotent God, creating one solar system or billions wouldn't make a difference. Genesis 1 gives us this "let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; I suppose I could come up with more reasons, but I'm not sure I can back them with scripture in the short time I have to post. |
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Perhaps there are aliens living on this planet already My friend and I talked about this in our original discussion, too. It's possible. But not very probable. Anyone read Ender's Game? The buggers and the humans couldn't communicate because they had evolved completely different methods of communication - so any attempt to talk to each other would be completely unrecognized and ignored by the other party. Maybe aliens are trying to contact us - just not through channels we can understand. Thank you for responding so quickly. I missed that forum. I would have loved to read it. The possibilities are endless aren't they. Not to long ago scientists have discovered planets that are three times bigger then our planet but have the possibility of supporting life. I will have to look for this article, but that really had me curious for if the planet offers oxygen then I am sure there is somekind of life on it even if it is only ferns and moss growth. The other day I watched on history channel on how the planet is about 4.5 billion years old and how it was created. I don't want to go through the ordeal of how these scientist come up with how the planet created earth for it is a 2 hour show, but to make the long story short they said meteorites that hit the earth contained ice or water that had helped ground our first life. If this is to be true then would it be technically correct to say we are aliens from another planet? |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Mon 11/17/08 01:47 PM
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Perhaps there are aliens living on this planet already My friend and I talked about this in our original discussion, too. It's possible. But not very probable. Anyone read Ender's Game? The buggers and the humans couldn't communicate because they had evolved completely different methods of communication - so any attempt to talk to each other would be completely unrecognized and ignored by the other party. Maybe aliens are trying to contact us - just not through channels we can understand. Thank you for responding so quickly. I missed that forum. I would have loved to read it. The possibilities are endless aren't they. Not to long ago scientists have discovered planets that are three times bigger then our planet but have the possibility of supporting life. I will have to look for this article, but that really had me curious for if the planet offers oxygen then I am sure there is somekind of life on it even if it is only ferns and moss growth. The other day I watched on history channel on how the planet is about 4.5 billion years old and how it was created. I don't want to go through the ordeal of how these scientist come up with how the planet created earth for it is a 2 hour show, but to make the long story short they said meteorites that hit the earth contained ice or water that had helped ground our first life. If this is to be true then would it be technically correct to say we are aliens from another planet? Not much of a chance of life surviving an impact on a asteroid, or meteor. Life probably started here, but was "seeded" from Minerals, and the constituents of life from asteroids, and meteors. Either that or spider is right and god is a vicious conniving SOB, that likes to make things look like they evolved, and where naturally caused . . . that the universe is huge and diverse even when we are all that there is . . . . . kinda laughable, man If I ever die and find myself in front of him he has some splain'n to do. |
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Personally, I don't believe in aliens. I think we are alone in the universe, which makes our lives all the more special. Alone in the universe?! The probability that one and only one planet would evolve intelligent life in the entire universe is tiny. Our existence alone should imply that the universe is teeming with life. Maybe you believe in a higher being who set Earth as the center of his master plan? If that's the case - why bother with building billions of other stars in our galaxy and billions of other galaxies outside of that?? If we're the end-all of importance in the universe, why does the rest of the universe even exist? For an omnipotent God, creating one solar system or billions wouldn't make a difference. Genesis 1 gives us this "let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; I suppose I could come up with more reasons, but I'm not sure I can back them with scripture in the short time I have to post. God repeatedly speaks of the "universe" in the new testament: 1Co 4:9 Eph 4:10 Php 2:15 Heb 1:2 and 11:3 What is more important than substantiating what is meant by universe or trying to argue "science" vs "Faith" is to understand that... "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts... and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:15 Amen. |
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God repeatedly speaks of the "universe" in the new testament: 1Co 4:9 Eph 4:10 Php 2:15 Heb 1:2 and 11:3 What is more important than substantiating what is meant by universe or trying to argue "science" vs "Faith" is to understand that... "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts... and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:15 Amen. Universe means "One Word". 
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God repeatedly speaks of the "universe" in the new testament: 1Co 4:9 Eph 4:10 Php 2:15 Heb 1:2 and 11:3 What is more important than substantiating what is meant by universe or trying to argue "science" vs "Faith" is to understand that... "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts... and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:15 Amen. Universe means "One Word". *smiles warmly* Amen |
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"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts... and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:15 Amen. I love me some falsehoods. But meh - we're both making a leap of faith in one direction or another. You believe some omnipotent being willed things into creation, I believe everything came from nothing for no good cause. We both have evidence on our side that we claim is reliable. Who's crazier? But does the bible say God didn't populate other planets with life? If he truly is omnipotent and omniscient (which in itself is a logical fallacy), and if he loves life as much as he says, why not fill the dark void with flowers and birds? |
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I don't think it's a given that intelligent life would eventually exterminate itself. I would think it's quite possible that an intelligent life would evolve without some of the 'issues' that humans have the appear to doom them to eventual extermination.
With physics as we understand it today, the sheer magnitude of the distances precludes ever finding out if we share the universe with 'anyone'. Here's hoping there's still a few things we have yet to learn. |
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