Nobody said Jesus lost control when he turned the tables over nor that he did it out or anger. They wouldn't stop by him just telling them to stop, so what else did he have to do? Turn the tables over, not hurting anyone just turning the tables over so that the bartering would have had to stop.

Well, you can rest assured that it still didn't stop. I'm sure they didn't let Jesus bully them. They probably just set them back up again and continued on with their business after the scene was over.

It wouldn't have accomplished anything. Violence is never the answer to a problem Cowboy. This is the problem with the biblical stories they attempt to solve all their problems using violent methods because it's the only thing those people understood. They weren't wise enough to think up better solutions for the stories in their fables. This is why the biblical stories are far from being wise and cannot possibly be the actions and words of a supposedly all-wise supernatural being.

As I point out again, like Einstein and other brilliant minds have recognized, the biblical God is far too human. He has the same mentality as a lot of human. In fact, he has the mentality of humans who themselves aren't very wise.

Besides, the mere fact that Jesus referred to the churches of the Scribes and Pharisees as his "Father's House" proves that Jesus wasn't God. He was clearly thinking just like a mortal man.

Jesus himself was not educated enough, nor did he have the credentials to teach in a church. What sense would it make for a God to send his only begotten son to Earth and not even set things up for his son so that his son could teach from "The Father's House".

If Jesus felt that the Scribes and Pharisees were hypocrites, and he didn't approve of what they did in "Their Temples", then instead of referring to "Their Temples" as his Father's House, he would have renounced them as being dens of iniquity.

But he didn't do that. So it's clear that Jesus was just a mortal man like everyone else. He made the very kinds of mistakes we'd expect any mortal man to make.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"For the Son of man is not come
to destroy men's lives,
but to save them.
And they went to another village."
Luke 9:56
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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
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I'm waiting for someone to create a video with two marionette Jesus dolls that constantly argue with each other using all the contradicting quotes that have been attributed to Jesus.

This is why quoting verses from the bible is utterly meaningless. You can basically support anything you want.

In fact, look at what people have used the Bible to support:

The Malleus Maleficarum and the torturing and burning alive of innocent midwives.

The Crusades and the torture and murdering of all the innocent spiritual people who simply didn't buy into the Hebrew fables.

The holocaust and antisemitism.

The book can be used to support anything.

Sure a decent person can use it to support decent things.

But just as easily a horrible person can use it to support horrible things.

The book itself is useless. It's just filled with conflicting messages and confusion. There can be no doubt of that whatsoever, just look at the religions that have formed because of this book:

Judaism - and it's many sects
Islam - and it's many sects
Catholicism - ant it's Popes that keep changing the rules

And of course the protesting Protestants that can never agree on anything. Do you realize that there are more denominations of Protestantism than any other religion on Earth?

So which of these myriad of people have it right? The Jews? The Muslims? The Catholics? Or one of the many Protestant Paper Popes?

I still like my interpretation of these fables the best.

The original folklore has no more merit than Zeus.

And the rumors about Jesus are totally incorrect. Some guy preached against the Torah and was crucified for it, and the New Testament is nothing more than one set of rumors that evolved out of that, and those rumors became powerful due to the very simple fact that they were indeed shoved down everyone's throat at sword point. Either convert to Christianity or DIE.

History tells us so.

It's a religion that only came to be because of violence. From the crucifixion to the crusades, it's nothing but blood guts and violence.

this type of discussion is what religious wars are made of sure it starts as a discussion but in the end you find out that god was a power hungry alien with multiple personality disorder and fetish for probing victims against there will

The word of God is the sword of which Jesus brought to the world. The word is your sword and God is your armor.

If you're speaking of Jesus this is absolutely untrue. I give Jesus the utmost respect. Far more than than the authors of the New Testament do.

You're just upset because I don't buy into their claims that Jesus was "the Christ".

There is no shame in the idea that Jesus was indeed a mortal man. There is no shame in the idea that he taught against the horrible moral values of the Torah. There is no shame in the idea that he was most likely educated in Mahayana Buddhism and was acting as a Bodhisattva. On the contrary to become a Bodhisattva is considered one of the most respectable and selfless things a person can do.

The picture that I paint of Jesus is highly respectable.

The pictured painted by the men who wrote the New Testament is not respectable at all, IMHO. After all, if Jesus truly was the "only begotten son" of God, then neither Jesus nor God are very bright.

So from my point of view, to recognize that Jesus was indeed a mortal man is really the only way to make him respectable.




That's where your mistake is. You just accept that these fables came from God and therefore you cannot question them without simultaneously questioning the wisdom of God. You have no choice but to assume that everything in them must be of the highest possible wisdom, even if it makes no sense to you. Surely God must know something that you don't know and that these stories aren't telling you, because you have already decided that these stories are necessarily the "Word of God". Therefore that cannot be wrong!

I see no reason to take view. No reason whatsoever.

In fact, if I took that view I would necessarily have to agree with everything in the Bible no matter how nonsensical it appears to me, because, like you, I would have already committed myself to accepting that it's the "Word of God" and therefore cannot be false.

If there's something that appears to be stupid to me, it can only be because I'm lacking the knowledge and wisdom to understand it.

That's the mentality that a lot of people accept with open arms. But I see no reason to behave in such a foolish way. And yes, I do indeed believe that such behavior is foolish.

After all, if you're going to just assume something to be true, why pick the Hebrew folklore? Why not pick one of the myriad of other religions throughout the world? You could just as easily have chosen Wicca, for example, and then you'd believe that the Moon Goddess is the true picture of our creator and all other religions are false myths.

Now you may argue, "But Jesus was a real person who actually lived!"

Well, maybe or maybe not. You can't even know that for sure. But even if he had lived (which I personally accept), that itself does not give credence to the rumors that the authors of the New Testament wrote.

The whole religion is extremely egotistical, like it or not.

The God of the Old Testament is an extremely egotistical God. Jesus is portrayed to be just as jealous and hateful toward anyone who refuses to worship him.

And finally, the whole theme is about personal salvation. Period. It's not a story about humanity in general or how to conduct great societies. It's all about getting your personal butt 'saved'.

It's a religion that is entirely about saving individual egos.

I've said many times, and I continue to hold this view:

Even if this biblical picture of God were true, I would reject his offer of "eternal life". I make no secret about it, I do not like the God that is portrayed in the Old Testament. He doesn't appear to be the slightest bit wise to me. I certainly have no desire to worship and serve and idiot for the rest of eternity.

Therefore, even if I knew that this religion was true, I would politely and without any emotion at all, simply decline this God's offer of eternal life. I'm simply not interested. I would ask that this God simple cause me to cease to exist. Or better yet, make it like I never had existed at all.

That would be my POLITE AND SINCERE request of this God.

If the God has any righteousness and wisdom at all he would understand and simply cause me to vanish painlessly from his silly games.

On the other hand, if he starts throwing temper tantrums and claiming that he's going to 'punish' me for now wanting to play his stupid games, then he would have just proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that he's not nearly as mature and wise as even I am.

That's the problem with this God. In order for this God to be as "threatening" as the bible would like it to be, this God would need to basically be a real jerk. A far less moral being than myself.

But that flies in the very face of what an all-righteous and all-wise God should be.

It simply cannot be true that an all-righteous and all-wise God would be mean to people or even reject them for not believing in such horrible violent, and often absurdly ridiculous stories as are in the Biblical Cannon.

The very idea of a God who would be mean to people for not believing that he sent his only begotten son to be crucified to pay for their sins is itself an unwise and unrealistic thing to ask of people, IMHO.

You, as a Christian surely believe that "With God all things are possible".

Well, if you believe that, then why would such a God need to solve all of his problems using utterly stupid and violent means, when clearly he can do anything he wants?

If he wanted to get rid of sinners all he would have had to do was make them all sterile and within the span of a single generation they'd all be dead and there would be no new-born babies to even worry about.

To have some guy build a boat to save the animal species and then flood the entire planet just to get rid of a bunch of sinners is neither wise, nor powerful. That's a method you'd expect mortal men to dream up.

I mean, come on. Evidently you're afraid to even question whether these absurd stories are true. You've decided that they are indeed the "Word of God" and therefore to question them is to question God himself.

That's precisely what the authors of these tales were hoping you'd do! Don't question them, just believe them!

Well, I'm not going there. That's silly. I prefer to question them, and when I do question them I see precisely how utterly stupid they truly are.

can't vouch for all christians. But i can assure you any discussion with me in particular won't get to personal attacking less it's done by the other person. Insulting someone in a discussion about God especially is not a good witness and anger turns people's heads. We are to be loving to one another. And with love comes patients. So therefore if you have patients with the person you are talking to you won't get angry.

true but most people these day would rather have the first punch rather then the first word

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm waiting for someone to create a video with two marionette Jesus dolls that constantly argue with each other using all the contradicting quotes that have been attributed to Jesus.

question how do you draw power from words in a book that's like saying if i want to gain magical powers all i have to do is read a harry potter book

technology gives you power as well and as for god he could have been an alien from some other part of the galaxy doing a cloning experiment and we are the out come so how can you hold truth to a book that's basically a bunch of he says she says bull crap

Yes very true. Unfortunately this is true. Saddens