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| Topic: What is sin, really? | |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sun 08/28/11 12:28 PM
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. Yes as a child, we may or may not believe just because our parents do or don't, our friends do or don't, or any possible reason. But as an adult you become accountable for yourself, this includes but not limited to your beliefs. As an adult, a belief CAN NOT be "forced" on you. Even as a child a belief can't truly be forced on you. Only YOU can make the choice to believe or not believe. |
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? |
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? that is what growing up and experiencing life provides, once one is 'grown' it can no longer be said their belief is 'forced' |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 08/28/11 02:25 PM
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? that is what growing up and experiencing life provides, once one is 'grown' it can no longer be said their belief is 'forced' Yes but if they are taught that this is what life is definitively, breaking out of that can be difficult. I really think you both underestimate the power of one's upbringing especially with this. Not to mention family pressures to be one of them on top of it, once grown. I know when I left Catholicism I was ostracized totally from my dad's family, heaven forbid how I'd be seen now given I am not religious at all but just spiritual. I know I am not the only one either with these experiences. Whether you like it or not, even if it's not technically forced onto a person, people damn sure try as much as they can to. |
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? that is what growing up and experiencing life provides, once one is 'grown' it can no longer be said their belief is 'forced' Yes but if they are taught that this is what life is definitively, breaking out of that can be difficult. I really think you both underestimate the power of one's upbringing especially with this. Not to mention family pressures to be one of them on top of it, once grown. I know when I left Catholicism I was ostracized totally from my dad's family, heaven forbid how I'd be seen now given I am not religious at all but just spiritual. I know I am not the only one either with these experiences. Whether you like it or not, even if it's not technically forced onto a person, people damn sure try as much as they can to. thats the pressures of life, I feel force fed my whole life that homosexuality is genetic, but in my adult life I do not choose to believe it , because it makes no sense to me likewise, if something doesnt make sense as we grow older, like religion, we will choose not to believe it if it does make sense, we will choose to hold on to it |
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? that is what growing up and experiencing life provides, once one is 'grown' it can no longer be said their belief is 'forced' Yes but if they are taught that this is what life is definitively, breaking out of that can be difficult. I really think you both underestimate the power of one's upbringing especially with this. Not to mention family pressures to be one of them on top of it, once grown. I know when I left Catholicism I was ostracized totally from my dad's family, heaven forbid how I'd be seen now given I am not religious at all but just spiritual. I know I am not the only one either with these experiences. Whether you like it or not, even if it's not technically forced onto a person, people damn sure try as much as they can to. thats the pressures of life, I feel force fed my whole life that homosexuality is genetic, but in my adult life I do not choose to believe it , because it makes no sense to me likewise, if something doesnt make sense as we grow older, like religion, we will choose not to believe it if it does make sense, we will choose to hold on to it I still think you underestimate just how powerful these pressures are. Just because we may have a choice as it were, doesn't mean everyone feels free to exercise it. In fact many do not. |
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whats the issue? truly I do not believe that I have to be a good girl for santa to bring gifts, because I dont believe in Santa IF one doesnt believe in the God who requires belief , than they shouldnt be concerned with what the potential consequences of such a non existent God are and let time reveal to them what the TRUTH is, as opposed to what they might have BELIEVED it to be life is a gamble But should it be? You have to ask yourself, who benefits from such ideas about God and the afterlife? You don't have to look very far to find an answer. All these ideas that this book is the word, and God says this or God demands that, that's all man trying to control the masses. Those who perpuate these ideas, are the ones who benefit by holding the power. Once one has power over another, they can make them do or believe almost anything they want them to. And whether it be religion or politics, time and again this has been shown to be true. many people benefit from the ideas , in terms of living the life represented and encouraged by those ideas the men who wrote the books, they died long ago, so they are obviously not benefitting the men who keep the books in circulation, I imagine , are struggling joes and working people who dont have anymore benefit than those selling science books or history books successfully men in general, dont benefit unless they are able to manipulate the words to their benefit just as women can do if they so choose... That's what I mean though, IT'S A MANIPULATION TOOL. It's not some divine word, that's just something man made up to make you believe it, and it's obviously worked. I look at it like this, they have setup a system that is almost ingenious. They tell people that this is what God wants you to know and believe, God desires you do this and not that, and believe this and not something else. If you do this so you are told, you will go to Heaven, and if you don't, you will at the least die, at the worst burn forever. This achieves two things: 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. It's the perfect plan to keep people in line and get them to accept anything you want them to. Promise them eternity if they do as you say, and take it away if you don't. 1. Gives you a comfort in the afterlife of knowing where you'll be going if you do as you're told. 2. Keeps you from questioning if what you are told is accurate through the fear of what will happen to you if you do. You would have to believe before 1 could happen. You could never be forced into believing something, or even manipulated into believing. You would have to put forth the believe before there was any form of possible fear. 2 Not true. Seek and ye will find. If you just believe because your parents did and or other important person to you, you would not be seeking now would you be? You would just be going along because someone else believes. This again would be in vein and not truly sought or felt. 1. That's kinda the whole point, if they can get you to believe and accept what you are being told, you won't question it or them. Hence their power is not threatened. These people are not stupid, they are very calculating in their methods of control. 2. No it may not be genuine, but it also means they aren't really questioning what they are being told either. This conversation isn't going to go very far. You're stuck in your delusions and can't see the truth in things. People don't believe things just cause they were told that as a child or you would have adults running around chasing leprechauns, believing in the tooth fairy, making a list for Santa, ect. People make a CHOICE cause they CHOOSE to. Because the holy spirit has comforted them in their choice. No this doesn't happen in the belief where they just believe cause they were told as a child, thus we have alot of atheists people in the world and or they choose a different belief because it better "suits" them. A Christian is a Christian because they have put forth the first step and the Holy Spirit has reveal itself to them, cause the sought to find the truth. They weren't settling for the "easiest" belief or a belief that just suits them. They sought after the truth and found it. A CHRISTIAN seeks the holy spirit head strong, seeks the holy spirit diligently. If the one doesn't seek our father who art in heaven with full intentions on finding him, they won't find him. Love the accusing there at the beginning, finally the truth comes out about you right there. Wanna try and call that "discussing"? As for the rest, can you speak for everyone? Not everyone "chooses" this as much as it's forced upon them. I would know, cause it was forced onto me. I just had enough sense and strength to snap out of it after a while. But not everyone is able to do that. You have no idea of the experiences of such people, and to claim you do is extremely arrogant. I buy that so far as children are concerned, once we are adults though, we experience the world beyond our family and choices are much more 'clear cut' choices. Just like some people will grow up in homes with domestic abuse and as children think that is normal and right, but when they GROW AND EXPERIENCE life, they have the option to choose if thats the 'normal' they wish for themself. likewise with religion, perhaps as children most of what we believe and think are out of our control, but as we grow and experience life into adulthood,, our actions and words and beliefs become our choice. IF you 'got out' of it, that was your choice. But it is likewise other adults choice to 'stay in' it. You cannot deny though that how one grows up shapes how they are and how they think. If religion is all they've known for so long, how are they gonna know there's other alternatives?? that is what growing up and experiencing life provides, once one is 'grown' it can no longer be said their belief is 'forced' Yes but if they are taught that this is what life is definitively, breaking out of that can be difficult. I really think you both underestimate the power of one's upbringing especially with this. Not to mention family pressures to be one of them on top of it, once grown. I know when I left Catholicism I was ostracized totally from my dad's family, heaven forbid how I'd be seen now given I am not religious at all but just spiritual. I know I am not the only one either with these experiences. Whether you like it or not, even if it's not technically forced onto a person, people damn sure try as much as they can to. thats the pressures of life, I feel force fed my whole life that homosexuality is genetic, but in my adult life I do not choose to believe it , because it makes no sense to me likewise, if something doesnt make sense as we grow older, like religion, we will choose not to believe it if it does make sense, we will choose to hold on to it I still think you underestimate just how powerful these pressures are. Just because we may have a choice as it were, doesn't mean everyone feels free to exercise it. In fact many do not. sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. |
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You guys done?
I gave up after the last millionth quote. I actually came in here with something positive to say. Now, after actually reading this....I care even less. |
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Originality people....
You kids lack it. |
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time will tell,,these threads do have the potential to go on and on, go off on tangents and even be locked up,,,,
such is the risks of allowing so many opinions in one place,,, |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Mon 08/29/11 10:27 AM
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way Yes he would have made us that way if he would have wanted us to be like that. He doesn't want obedient slaves though, he wants obedient children. Is a child a slave of a parent that gives that child a few rules to follow? Again, we are children of God, not slaves. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way Yes he would have made us that way if he would have wanted us to be like that. He doesn't want obedient slaves though, he wants obedient children. Is a child a slave of a parent that gives that child a few rules to follow? Again, we are children of God, not slaves. Twist it however you want, but the fact of the matter it makes NO SENSE for a God to give a person free will only to say you HAVE to use it a specific way. Sorry it doesn't work, not now, not ever. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way Yes he would have made us that way if he would have wanted us to be like that. He doesn't want obedient slaves though, he wants obedient children. Is a child a slave of a parent that gives that child a few rules to follow? Again, we are children of God, not slaves. Twist it however you want, but the fact of the matter it makes NO SENSE for a God to give a person free will only to say you HAVE to use it a specific way. Sorry it doesn't work, not now, not ever. If we naturally just did God's will, followed every law exact, to the T. There would be no point in making us. We wouldn't have individualism, we wouldn't be ourselves. We would be robots. God wants you to love him with your heart, not because you do it automatically. That's not love when it's automatic. We would be nothing but robots, no emotion. It wouldn't be a choice. God put the choice there because he wanted us to love him cause we wanted to, not because we had to and had no other choice. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way Yes he would have made us that way if he would have wanted us to be like that. He doesn't want obedient slaves though, he wants obedient children. Is a child a slave of a parent that gives that child a few rules to follow? Again, we are children of God, not slaves. Twist it however you want, but the fact of the matter it makes NO SENSE for a God to give a person free will only to say you HAVE to use it a specific way. Sorry it doesn't work, not now, not ever. If we naturally just did God's will, followed every law exact, to the T. There would be no point in making us. We wouldn't have individualism, we wouldn't be ourselves. We would be robots. God wants you to love him with your heart, not because you do it automatically. Ok fine, but why put limits on HOW? If God wants us to be individuals and not robots, why not let us find our own way then? The idea you try to present is opposed to how the Biblical God expects us to act. You can't have it both ways. |
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sounds like one personal issue out of thousands.. But it doesn't have to be. If people wouldn't push for such conformity in things, and allow for individuality, you wouldn't have these problems. The person would be much more free to make their own decisions that way than they otherwise are. you cant have only individuality in a society, more than one person is going to require some degree of conformity to function as a team...or a family, or a class, or a company, or a community,,,etc,,,, To a certain extent, but you don't wanna wound people so tight that there is NO room for individuality at all. And by expecting everyone to believe what you believe in religion and be damned if they don't, that is what you end up doing. ID say christians are as individual as anyone else, its false logic to assume that because we get 'laws' from one book of words (bible), that we are any less individual from those who get their 'laws' from another document or from men(the constitution and the congress) The bottom line is simply this, how can we be free to be who we are or wish to become, when according to you we HAVE to go in one direction to have any life past this one? That simply does not work, I don't care how you try to twist it. There is NO room for individuality if you have to conform to something or someone to stay alive. Period. Besides, what would be the point of God making us the way He did, with the ability to do anything we want to do, to make of our lives whatever we wish to make them only to say: "Oh but you must do this this and this or you'll die". It makes not a bit of sense! If God wanted obedient slaves he'd have made us that way. He didn't though. We are made as we are for a reason, and bowing down to some being in the sky isn't it. what is the point of being able to travel if I Have to go WEst to reach california... thats what the question seems like to me I do have the choice, in my life or in my car, of which paths to take, but I dont have the choice of where the paths lead,, they lead where they lead |
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