Topic: Does the universe naturally produce complexity and reason?
no photo
Fri 01/30/15 05:53 PM
No doubt, Sanskrit and Chinese are very old languages as well.

It's the really basic thought being conveyed here.

There are no other would-be gods in the Universe, just the One, God.

no photo
Fri 01/30/15 10:23 PM
"Does the universe naturally produce complexity and reason?"

I would say yes, but haven't we always known this? Religions and science have always noticed the complexity of nature, so how is this idea new?

mightymoe's photo
Fri 01/30/15 10:28 PM

No doubt, Sanskrit and Chinese are very old languages as well.

It's the really basic thought being conveyed here.

There are no other would-be gods in the Universe, just the One, God.

every religion says that...is one better than the other? which god is best?

mightymoe's photo
Fri 01/30/15 10:31 PM

"Does the universe naturally produce complexity and reason?"

I would say yes, but haven't we always known this? Religions and science have always noticed the complexity of nature, so how is this idea new?


we're always learning, so new/old ideas take shape... the religious dogmas take precedence, then common sense after that...flowerforyou

no photo
Sat 01/31/15 11:59 AM


No doubt, Sanskrit and Chinese are very old languages as well.

It's the really basic thought being conveyed here.

There are no other would-be gods in the Universe, just the One, God.

every religion says that...is one better than the other? which god is best?


Not all religions are Monotheistic, some are Polytheistic. Some profess a certain entity as being responsible for the Universe, but are arguably creations themselves. Once more, with regards the collective that are the 'Q'... It's the very idea of something in nature that is, relatively speaking, omnipotent. So the question is... Why Not?

By-the-way Mightymoe, thank You for posting that flag for me.

I'm not very computer savvy the way You are. :thumbsup:

mightymoe's photo
Sat 01/31/15 01:58 PM



No doubt, Sanskrit and Chinese are very old languages as well.

It's the really basic thought being conveyed here.

There are no other would-be gods in the Universe, just the One, God.

every religion says that...is one better than the other? which god is best?


Not all religions are Monotheistic, some are Polytheistic. Some profess a certain entity as being responsible for the Universe, but are arguably creations themselves. Once more, with regards the collective that are the 'Q'... It's the very idea of something in nature that is, relatively speaking, omnipotent. So the question is... Why Not?

By-the-way Mightymoe, thank You for posting that flag for me.

I'm not very computer savvy the way You are. :thumbsup:


i already agreed with you on that, but that doesn't the fact that i don't need them to be my god/gods...

Mechamel's photo
Sat 01/31/15 09:44 PM
LOL!!! Life is a Rube Goldberg...

Nenew's photo
Sat 01/31/15 10:34 PM
I Agree it's complex for our understanding, and there is an innate, detailed order to the universe.

messi_is_a_tim_1888's photo
Sun 02/01/15 11:19 AM
What do you think about that video that's kicking about on youtube and disclosetv, about the Yellowstone supervolcano, being given 2 weeks until it erupts, by a park geologist? Watched it earlier Moe. Utter devastation in the US, if it does big yin?

no photo
Sun 02/01/15 11:32 AM

I Agree it's complex for our understanding, and there is an innate, detailed order to the universe.



:laughing: Yes...! It would be an 'understatement' to say that the Universe is complex for our understanding. :thumbsup:

DavidCommaGeek's photo
Sun 02/01/15 12:18 PM
Edited by DavidCommaGeek on Sun 02/01/15 12:24 PM
Agreeing that the universe is a complex place, and that both religion and science recognize this fact is all well and good, but the article is trying to make a further point: that a complex system of morals and rational thought necessarily follow physical and chemical complexity.

"And Smith feels another similarity to religion are the potential moral implications of this idea. If evolution tends to favor the development of sociality, reason, and culture as a kind of "package deal," then it's a good bet that any smart extraterrestrials we encounter will have similar evolved attitudes about their basic moral commitments."

Smith wants to say that 1) if the universe is a "complexity machine", then intelligent life elsewhere is a certainty, and as the universe ages and becomes more complex, more intelligent races will arise naturally.
And 2) That intelligent races will naturally develop a similar system of beliefs and morals because of their base physical and chemical complexity.

To use an example related to what Sheik and mightymoe discussed: Do the Klingons have a similar moral system as Humans? Do the Vulcans? Do the Borg? Are these not all complex beings with advanced cultures and rational thought?
As a parallel, consider carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Combined (more complex), they form carbohydrates. These carbohydrates combine to form different molecular structures (even more complex) when exposed to stimuli (like heat).
Does this mean that they taste the same, or have the same chemical properties in the end?

The article wants us to believe that a complex universe will develop towards a similar end point. I would hold that a complex universe develops differentiation, and that includes morals and what is considered to be rational thought.
Where the article's theory wants us to believe that the universe develops like this physically, chemically, and morally:
Where "S" is the theorized "start" point of physical and chemical complexity, and "E" is the physical, chemical, and moral end point.

- - - - - -
- -
S- - - - - - - - -E
- -
- - - - - -

I would say the universe is much more likely to develop like this physically, chemically, and morally:

- -- -E - - - - - -E
- - - - - -- - - - - -- - E
- - - -E
- - - - - - - - -E
- - - - - - - - -E
S- - - - - - -E
- - - - -- - - - -E - - - - - -- -E
- - - - - - - - -E - - - - -E
- - - E


EDIT
Okay, so the diagrams aren't displaying like I hoped they would, but I think it gets the point across anyway.

mightymoe's photo
Sun 02/01/15 12:37 PM

What do you think about that video that's kicking about on youtube and disclosetv, about the Yellowstone supervolcano, being given 2 weeks until it erupts, by a park geologist? Watched it earlier Moe. Utter devastation in the US, if it does big yin?

i dunno, it's a possibility... it's due to erupt at anytime now, according to the timeline of past eruptions... i don't think it will be like they are saying it will be, it could erupt slowly, for years, without the big bang they claim...

metalwing's photo
Tue 02/03/15 11:23 AM
I can't find a recent youtube video on the Yellowstone volcano erupting.
A recent article says there isn't much going on at the moment but things got pretty shaky a couple of years ago.




What do you think about that video that's kicking about on youtube and disclosetv, about the Yellowstone supervolcano, being given 2 weeks until it erupts, by a park geologist? Watched it earlier Moe. Utter devastation in the US, if it does big yin?

i dunno, it's a possibility... it's due to erupt at anytime now, according to the timeline of past eruptions... i don't think it will be like they are saying it will be, it could erupt slowly, for years, without the big bang they claim...

Conrad_73's photo
Tue 02/03/15 11:50 AM


No doubt, Sanskrit and Chinese are very old languages as well.

It's the really basic thought being conveyed here.

There are no other would-be gods in the Universe, just the One, God.

every religion says that...is one better than the other? which god is best?

Heck,my God could beat the Heck out of your God!laugh

Essence of today's Religions!:laughing:

no photo
Tue 02/03/15 01:04 PM
And where would these other gods that pit their ability against the One God for naturally producing anything in the Universe.

You'd think they'd want to undo the others work! spock

Wouldn't we just get in the way, Conrad?

no photo
Tue 02/03/15 01:09 PM
I don't believe in the Big bang theory OP. Do you? oops offtopic

no photo
Tue 02/03/15 01:58 PM
How long must this 'Big Bang' last? spock

mightymoe's photo
Tue 02/03/15 04:43 PM

I don't believe in the Big bang theory OP. Do you? oops offtopic


no, i think they missed the age of the actual universe as well...

i think of the universe as trillions of years old, a never ending recycling pit...

the big bang theory seems to biblical sounding to me, everything was made in less than a second? they might as well say "god did it" and quit looking...

no photo
Tue 02/03/15 05:07 PM
How long is a 'second?'

mightymoe's photo
Tue 02/03/15 05:26 PM

How long is a 'second?'


depends on where your at... but they mean "our" seconds...