TG some people are willing to find and know truth !



And that Southern Cross ....It's a Christian flag

Well the only thing you got right was my 25% Chinese heritage. A relative that escaped the railroads construction crews to Mexico. my great grandma a poblano native. Alley, Maoist?? Really? Lol

he's talking about david, not you...

Lol it was funny.

Yea, Dodo posted a story once of a drunk driver who ran over some people in the Northern Hebei province in China. Some guy replied to it saying, he didn't give a dam what happens in China along with some other choice opinions about the post. I tried to defend Dodo, saying that somewhere there could be someone who would like to know the news from the Nothern Hebei Province of China. I can't let him forget it.LMAO,

lol..i always wondered why...

I have rarely if ever seen anyone arguing about all this, post accurate and relatively complete facts about the Civil War.

First off, there is absolutely no question, that the reason given, by the sates themselves who tried to secede and form a new Confederacy, was that they wanted to keep slavery. It is specified in their proclamations of secession, therefore there is no arguing otherwise.

Second, the reason why it is somewhat accurate to say that economics played a part, is because slavery was a part of the economy of the states which allowed it. Some states became entirely dependent on slavery economically, by remaining almost entirely agricultural (tobacco and cotton). This ironically "enslaved" them to slavery.

They could have chosen to end slavery and convert to a pure capitalist economy with free workers, but this would have been a costly and painful transition, and they chose not to try. Instead, they worked for decades to spread slavery, much as some drug addicts work to spread their addiction, in order to have more support for their activities.

Modern claims that "States Rights," or the general right to self-determination were the primary heroic force driving the Confederacy, is essentially nonsense. It is a disguise, specifically. The reason why the Confederates talked about States Rights, was specifically and directly connected (yet again) to the fact that they wanted to continue slavery. Nothing else.

This is why modern racists use States Rights as their official way to hide their actual socio-political motives: it SOUNDS good to talk about individual rights. But what the States Rights advocates finally show the specifics that they want, it isn't to help each of us live our lives as we like. It is so that they can once again, be able to allow local majorities to dictate who is on top, and who has to knuckle under.

The opening post WAS a very biased, and inaccurate representation of reality. I particularly dislike the opening statement. First, as a dedicated historian myself, any time someone insists on putting words into other peoples' mouths, I get annoyed. That's not good history, that's just propaganda fantasizing.

Further, there are real reasons to respect the people who fought on the other side of even the most awful conflicts, including this one. Being wrong about who you are fighting for, doesn't mean you can't be an honorable person yourself. If this were not true, then it would be wrong for us to honor the Americans who were sent to fight for lies that our politicians told about the foreign countries they fought for us in, and I will not stand for that.

It is a real shame that a lot of modern Southern apologists have decided to continue the mistake that the leaders of the Confederacy did a hundred and fifty years ago, and pretend that they were right to have made that mistake. That is what they are doing, when they pretend that the war wasn't about slavery.

By the way, at first, it was Lincoln and the Republicans who tried NOT to make the conflict about Slavery. Lincoln himself was by no means a believer in the equality of all men, or of the idea that the "fix" would be to keep all the slaves here. The Emancipation Proclamation was not issued until the beginning of the THIRD YEAR of the war. If it had been all about the North wanting to end slavery from the start, it would have come out the day after Fort Sumter was fired on.

And if you actually read the thing, even when it was issued, it didn't free all American slaves throughout the land. It specifically freed just the ones still under Confederate control.

Bottom line, although the claims of Northern sainthood about all this are BS, it's even more true that the modern apologist claims about Southern innocence are complete lies. Pitiful at that.

I personally was born up north. Chicago, I'll. While I was just about to hit my teen years we moved down to Georgia. I remember being a kid and making fun of the south and the accent and remember what was said about slavery in the south. As I grew up in the south I learned a lot. The rebel flag was originally a battle flag. But there were many flags the south flew at the time. People that don't really know, call it the confederate flag. Which was A confederate flag. But it was also the state flag for Georgia. With the state seal of course. Untill people cried that it was racist. That personally offended me. And remember I am originally from up north. That flag may have been the confederate flag back in the day but us southern people call it the rebel flag. The rebel flag symbolizes the freedom we still have to rebel against anything we don't believe in. Just like the old days. The southerners didn't want to be told what to do and they rebelled. Some racist kkk organizations adopted the flag cause they were from the south. Now it is known as a racist flag. Everyone had slaves in those days from Florida all the way to Maine until the end of the war. Confederate soldiers were not the only ones that had slaves. To me....the rebel flag is a symbol of country life. Drinking sweat tea on the porch on a hot muggy day. Going camping on the weekend because we already live in the vacation spot. Grilling out at the lake, muddin through the woods, and goin fishin. Big ol bon fires and the home of country music. Where you can go anywhere and everyone throws their hand up to wave hi as you go by. Southern hospitality. Where else in this country can you find this kinda stuff in abundance. Up north if you throw your hand up and wave hi, you get a middle finger or gang signs thrown up or wtf are you looking at. You all complain the rebel flag is a symbol of hate...it's a symbol of love and compassion to me. Its really sad you people feel the way you do, your really missing out

"Confederate soldiers should be honored because they bravely fought to keep black people on American soil enslaved."

That above statement, while not openly uttered, summarizes the attitude of a certain segment of American society that is in love with symbols of America's nadir, namely the war to preserve slavery, a.k.a the U.S. Civil War.

Granted, that institution of slavery was initiated by the British, and the USA's founding fathers reluctantly put the issue of slavery on the back burner when they declared independence from the British. Still, the evil of slavery wasn't something that could be tolerated in a nation which declared that all men are created equal.

Over time, as the northern states gained more control over D.C. politics, Americans opposed to slavery gained opportunity to limit (if not completely eliminate) such evil.

The rise of the Republican Party, with Abraham Lincoln as its presidential choice, spelled disaster for white southerners who profited from slavery. If slavery were to continue, then the white southerners would have to do something drastic, and they did.

Contrary to what pro-southern revisionists keep claiming, the Confederacy was formed for the purpose of preserving slavery. As historian Gordon Rhea states, "The Confederate States were established explicitly to preserve and expand the institution of slavery. Alexander Stephens, the Confederacy's vice president, said so himself in 1861, in unambiguous terms."

After the Civil War ended and slavery was eliminated, Confederates consoled themselves by saying,"We lost, but we should be proud of our heroic efforts to keep slavery alive." They and their descendants then set up monuments honoring the defenders of slavery.

In 1895, one such monument was set up in Louisville, Kentucky in a location that is now within the University of Louisville. On 04/29/16, the university's president and the mayor of Louisville announced that the monument would be moved from its current location and that it would be cleaned, repaired and stored until another location for it is selected.

Typically, whenever such a symbol of the Confederacy is removed from public property, somebody somewhere claims that U.S. history is being scrubbed. On the contrary, such a removal is a recognition of history. University of Louisville professor Ricky Jones says it best in a column published by Louisville's Courier-Journal newspaper:



It is amazing that, in the 21st Century, symbols of the old Confederacy are still being used to extol the southern states, as if the southern states hadn't changed any since the Civil War.

Well, the southern states have indeed changed. Gone With The Wind is just a movie, not a documentary about modern southern living. The nadir of America's history is to be remembered and taught about, but it isn't something to be proud of.

If modern-day southerners want to display something that represents southern pride, then they should display symbols of NASCAR, which has long been identified with the southern states.

After all, Richard Petty is already a southern icon.


[NASCAR legend Richard Petty]

Side Issue:

In a 2011 speech to the Charleston Library Society, historian Gordon Rhea states the following:



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Originally posted @ The Moderate Voice

I think its sad that people fought and died so they could keep others enslaved,,,,

and unfortunately , flying that flag while they did it, leaves that flag with the legacy


as I said, I understand people who are proud of it for all the other southern customs it may represent

but I certainly don't blame people who see it as a symbol of the side it flew for when that side was actually dying to profit off the enslavement of others

I can certainly understand how people can be angry about what has happened in the past. But to be fair. Everyone should be angry at all that was responsible for the acts. Originally tribes in Africa would battle and enslave each other and keep the women for themselves Untill they learned they could profit from them by selling them. Originally they were sold by Africans. Yet Africans do not get blamed for what has happened. They were sold by the own countrymen.
If your a believer of religion, you will know everything happens for a reason. Slaves that were brought here paid a high price for a long time. Which was not right. In return, families from slaves now live in the best county in the world while the ones that sold them are still living in Africa as a third world country. I hear a lot of people complain about slavery but it was not you personally that felt the pain and it was not us personally that dished it out. So if the rebel flag should resemble hate than I think the African flag should be considered a hate flag to. Its a shame anyone can buy a Isis flag or a Nazi flag But a flag that is from our country should be banned

lol..i always wondered why...