Aaah, I think I get it... and now I see how all this relates back to being lazy OP. You are actually agreeing with me.

The used car salesman you refer to is Trump, and you are saying that he didn't become president to truly make AMERICA great again, but just to make the TRUMPS in America rich again. And the "product not being as good as the package" is his leadership, and that it is not HIS ("the Man's) fault that lazy people believed his crap, he didn't make people stupid enough to actually believe his lies, he just took advantage of them being stupid. And that if they had done their due diligence they would never have believed his BS (as you say, "the package") in the first place. But in any investment, whether it be a vote or buying a share of stock, there is always a risk that one will lose everything (in the case of the country, we might lose it to China or Russia, the "preferred investors" we were talking about).

Sorry, I was having trouble following the analogy. My fault, it is not happy hour here yet, and I am much better at following barroom rambling analogies after I too have had a couple. I am heading out to the bar to watch the Patriots in a few hours, and if we continue this at 9 or so, by then I should even be able to follow the poor spelling and typos of others here on the thread.

Well, there are investors and then there investors.... ever heard of "preferred stock"? Those are the ones paid first, when the company goes bankrupt. (Also in bankruptcy, the bankrupting party can choose which debtors get paid first... this is similar to how the lawyers in a class-action suit make tons, when the plaintiffs don't get much). Anyway, it is usually "the man" (as you so archaically call it) that gets access to the preferred shares, the rank-and-file are stuck with the common stock. There is different risk among investors.

Now, what was your point?

California wildfires caused by TERRORISM? Or caused by Flipping magnetic poles? HAARP programs?

Contrary to even what that sage old Smokey Bear told us ("Only YOU can prevent forest fires"), the chief cause of forest fires is ...

Lightning

Lightning hits this planet on the average of 8 MILLION times a day (https://learn.weatherstem.com/modules/learn/lessons/36/02.html). When it hits in the desert, there is not as much to burn, but when it hits in dry grasslands, arid tree areas, well, that is what causes fires. Now, fed by winds off the coast, these fires can travel.

No, Trump is not responsible for wildfires.

He is not responsible for the great economy or low unemployment either, but that is beside the point.

He might be responsible for the uptick in Cheetos sales among the stoner community, but there is no concrete evidence that concludes his unnatural coloring or vain comb-over is the reason.

I don't think the cooperation of government / armed forces recruiting interests have made Hollywood rich. I think Hollywood has made Hollywood rich, no problem getting rich on its own. But then again, I think that McDonalds has made McDonalds rich, CVS has made CVS rich, etc.

I laughed when you said you gave up (movies?) in 2003, but that you like seeing anti-gun people in movies fight with guns. What does an actor's personal opinion have to do with the fictional character they are hired to play? Actors are actors, like dentists are dentists, we hire actors to play roles because they are talented at making a character on a page appear real. I mean, Shakespeare wrote the character of Shylock as a jew, do you think only jewish actors should be allowed to portray the character?

Your question is imprecise, you are asking why it is "the Man's fault" that consumer debt is high?

There are a LOT of people who made money on the recession. Hedge fund managers, Goldman Sachs, Merril Lynch, Citibank, GM, and the taxpayer money they basically stole through lack of fiduciary responsibility DWARFS the profits you made.
If a junkie destroys his life by buying and using drugs, he is looked down upon. But when corporations destroy shareholder equity through similar "bad choices", it is OK. (Under Democratic rule, some folks like Kozlowski and Ebbers went to jail for it... under Republican rule, the heads of Citibank and GM, Merril, Goldman, no one went to jail). Heck, I might be mistaken, but this is the first president we have had who has bankrupted three entities (and might be the first one to bankrupt a country)

I have not seen the figures on consumer debt, but what the hay, "if the president can go bankrupt and screw his debtors, why shouldn't I be able to?"

Well, the folks who believe this demagogue in the White House without checking his facts are pretty lazy too.

When you let someone else do your thinking for you, do you REALLY think the guy doing the thinking is going to think "What is in the best interest of Workin4it?", or is he going to say "Well, I am doing all the work in thinking this through, what is in MY best interest?"

Let me break it down a bit further: I say to my ex-wife when we were married "Where would you like to go for dinner?"
She says "I don't know, where would you like to go?"
"Well, we could go here, or here, or here"
"I don't care"
Where do we end up going? The place I want to go. And then I hear afterwards "I hate this place, why did we end up coming here?"
And I DON'T say the correct answer which is "because you were too lazy to THINK"

How does this same thing apply to the right? Well, a guy says "let's build a 2000 mile wall". Nobody thinks "wow, that didn't work in China 2000 years ago", they say "wow, we can't afford the taxes to pay for it". The guy says, "we'll get our neighbor to pay for it". Nobody thinks to say "Can the neighbor afford to pay for it for us? What if he says no?"
And they don't think of things that have been invented since China built their wall, like planes, missiles, container ships, or fresh produce from South America that we have come to enjoy. "Wow, will a wall stop any of those things coming to America? I hope not, I LIKE being able to eat fresh strawberries in the winter" And they don't think that 22 Pounds of uranium (the amount used in Hiroshima)is only the size of a grapefruit. And that we have more container ships coming into the port of LA in a week than probably comes over the border in 3 months, and a wall is not going to help search those containers.
"It is OK, the Orange man has thought it through FOR me, I don't need to think about it. I am too lazy to try to figure out if he is lying of full of $hit"

Oh, and let's not even talk about the 80% of the voters in the US who were too lazy to come out and vote.

Do you know anything about how the sub-prime mortgages were packaged up and sold, so the banks could simply write loans to anyone who applied? And when all this worthless paper ended up being called in, the banks (who had made money hand over fist with the loans) all of a sudden needed corporate welfare from the government because they claimed they were "too big to fail"? I am guessing a lot of the poor did not have stocks in these blue-chip companies, but the RICH certainly did, and demanded through the Congress that the US government bail them out?

What about the auto industry? Take loans that you don't have any intention to repay? Did you know that GM in 2008 was basically majority OWNED by the US government, because the government had to step in? Do you think that the bad decisions made at the top of GM were by people who were living paycheck to paycheck, or do you think they were well-to-do folks with good jobs?

Even today, members of Trump's cabinet can't understand why they have to fly coach on planes to meetings, and why shouldn't they be able to book private jets?

Get over it! Welfare happens at the top as well as the bottom. The only people who do NOT get it are the middle class, who are not rich or connected enough to get bail outs.

One could ask why the government does fly-bys over sporting events, or funds the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Golden Knights, etc to perform at airshows. I mean, the price of a fly-by (fuel for practice and event, crews, ground security, maintenence, etc) seems like a huge waste, and for people who paid $100s for seats. None of these military personnel are combat troops, they are government-paid acrobats and entertainers. The Thunderbirds planes can't be equipped with ordinance.

The answer, for the fly-bys as well as the Hollywood participation is one word: RECRUITMENT. Playing the National Anthem at sporting events was started during WWI as a tool for encouraging enlistment. The reason you see the Armed Forces participating in movies (think Top Gun) is for their value in recruitment, making the service look COOL.

Watch "The Caine Mutiny" or "The Enemy Below", and you will see a page of the credits saying "the producers gratefully acknowledge the cooperation and assistance of the US Navy..." However, if the Navy feels that the movie script does not paint the service in a favorable light, they can pull cooperation. On IMDB, you will see notes on films where the services pulled support because they did not like the message the film was delivering.

If you are so against Hollywood getting rich using government "props", you are probably also against Dear Leader requiring visitors and those seeking to lobby the government to stay exclusively in Trump hotels? Do you think all those Secret Services agents, press corps, etc eat free while at Trump golf courses? I am sure the local high school would GLADLY supply the NFL team a color guard.

Msharmony:

I saw that same article today, and was amazed at the sound rhetoric Mr Pence used. I have found something I agree with the man on!

Thanks for posting it here.

That's an interesting observation, do you have citations to back this up?

I speculate that there are more corporations in the US making say, a billion dollars than there are individual citizens making a billion dollars, so it would make sense that corporations would be paying more than individuals.

I believe that the reason why Dear Leader is so adverse to releasing his taxes is because his accountants have found enough tax loopholes to make sure HE is one of the "large portion" of Americans who did not pay taxes. I mean, if he was paying an inordinately large tax bill, he would have paraded his 1040 down Broadway.

I know the argument is that "illegals don't pay taxes", but they aren't Americans though, right? I mean, even people on unemployment (max $20K a year) get taxes deducted from their checks.

The tax burden in the US is balanced on the backs of the middle class, and that is the reason why the "middle class tax cut" is a great talking point for politicians on both sides, but is a fantasy

100% DISAGREE.
Thank you for your input.


Thank you for YOUR input.

But you disagree that people are too lazy to form their own opinions? Or you disagree that Trump was classically a Democrat, but switched parties? Or that Obama did not say "the recession is over, no more extensions to unemployment"? Or that Trump just says whatever he feels, without information on the topic?

At about 2 years old, a toddler learns the strength of the word "no" and goes through a period of saying "no" to everything. They eventually learn how to practice logic and evidence, and how to present counterarguments. Until that time, simply saying "no" for the 2-year-old works well. They simply say they disagree.

... of course, unless they were born rich, then unscrupulously go bankrupt in business a few times and continually screw investors, get a giant ego by surrounding themselves with yes men. Sometimes they even become president.

To weigh in here:
"laziness" is not owned by on side or the other. When voters take an item they heard and just claim it is fact without researching it, THAT is laziness.

Americans used to be more informed, and used to seek truth. Too many folks now just spout "well, this is what I heard" as facts. This is the basis of the Russian meddling claims on Facebook. I mean, "if enough people say something, well, it must be true, right?" Trump is the king of laziness, as he has admitted that he doesn't check his facts, and just says whatever he feels, hoping folks will take what he said as gospel because they are too lazy to look it up. (Example: The Trump vs Obama inauguration crowds; photos don't lie)

Oh, and when the press calls you on your BS? Just claim that they are fake, or claim that you have alternative facts... don't worry, the lazy folks will just follow you anyway.

Hey, there are lies on both sides. It is just right now that the guy in charge wears an R. (He wore a D when it helped him years ago... he changes sides like the wind, I believe that is often called a "flip-flopper" by the right) Both chambers of congress are R. That allows the Ds to critique pretty effectively... "Well, you have all three bodies on your side, why isn't stuff fixed yet?" I mean, we are coming up on mid-terms, and the GOP is worried that they are going to lose seats, and possibly control of at least one chamber of congress. Why? They have not delivered the successes they promised. In other words, even the LAZY people are seeing that this orange guy is just a bunch of hot fetid air.

Me, I am lazy too. I bet on Obama being able to fix the economy (to be honest, I would have bet on McClain too, the economy was that badly trashed) The increase in my portfolio started with Obama and has continued in roughly the same line... Dear Leader is keeping it on the same trajectory, which is great, but the little Orange man can't take credit for it. But he CAN cause it to derail, and a bad midterm (if the Ds take a lot of seats) might cause a derailment of the steady progress Obama got us on. Hence my laziness; should I get out of the market now when it is good (lazy), or get researching quick before November before the crap hits the fan?

One little tidbit on unemployment: It was not an R, but OBAMA who decided to stop the unlimited renewals of unemployment claims. This was a win-win for business and publicity, because after the standard 26 weeks of benifits, businesses were no longer required to pay any more on a claim, helping their bottom line, and those people dropped off the unemployment numbers. When you say that Trump is showing the best unemployment numbers in X years, it is not him, it is just Obama again.

A guy I knew actually used to use this line at a bar.
Imagine a line of girls at a dance club, and this guy goes from one to the other asking:

Guy: "Hey there, want to go for a f--- and a pizza?"
Girl: <usually slaps him across the face>
Guy: "What's the matter, don't you like pizza?"

The scrambled eggs are surprisingly good. I figured that they would be loaded with sugar, stabilizers, etc, but they are just eggs.

It is worth a stop in the morning when you are on the move and are looking for some quick protein. I order a double order of scrambled eggs, it is about $3.25

The rest of the stuff on the menu does not fit in with my "healthy eating" objective

"you'd be surprised at what those Chinese super spies can do...some of them have alien tech...."

Alien tech, huh? From Mars, or Venus? Is this the same alien tech that sucked out all the brains of Trump supporters?

There is no hope for this country, the idiocy is worse than I thought. I better start working on learning Russian or Mandarin

The horny people usually don't bother me, I just turn up the radio to drown out the sound.
The ones who get me are the ones who don't use their blinker.

"lol...I guess it never occurred to you he could just listen,or have the car bugged, or just rummage through stuff they leave in the car..."

lol, too many Hollywood movies for you. Maybe the driver will get her DNA off the discarded coffee cup too and be able to build a clone of her, a real Manchurian Candidate... what "stuff" would be left in the car, and when are they going to leave it, when she stops on the way home to go grocery shopping?

Get real

Oh, and here is one elegant enough to make for a friend! My ex loved when I made this.

"Thanksgiving rice"

2 cups rice (brown is good in this recipe, but white works)
1 qt chicken broth
2-3 pats butter
Bell's seasoning (left over from the stuffing at Thanksgiving!)
a pinch of oregano (optional)
a pinch of garlic (optional)
the scraps of meat from a rotissiere chicken (a cup or so, if you have it)
a good handful of frozen peas

in a saucepan with lid, add the broth, butter, 1-2 teaspoons of the Bells, the oregano and garlic and bring to a boil. Stir in the rice, wait until it boils again, then cut down to a simmer, put on lid. Cook for 30-45 min, until liquid is all gone.

Shred the chicken into a large bowl, throw in the peas, then when the rice is done, toss everything together. Serve hot.

Dave try this one.

Ramen "pad thai"

2 packs ramen noodles
sriacha sauce
peanut butter
1 handful frozen peas (optional)

Boil the two blocks of noodles.
meanwhile, in a bowl, mix one of the seasoning packets, a squirt of sriacha, a good tablespoon of peanut butter.

Drain the noodles, add to bowl, and toss to coat. add the peas while noodles still hot

"logic? And you bring up some briefcase that no one even mentioned? "

Sorry Moe, didn't mean to move too fast for you. A briefcase is what businessmen or politicians might use to carry documents. If the documents left the office with the senator and were in the car with the driver, they would probably be in a briefcase, a lockbox, a "diplomatic pouch" You are right, no one said briefcase, I made an ASSUMPTION. Sort of like the OP made an assumption that Muller is covering this driver situation up

Maybe they are electronic documents, you say? Then how would a DRIVER have access to them on a PC or server, if he is in the car? Maybe the DRIVER is a hacker too? But in which case, how does it benefit him to be her DRIVER? "Duh, gee."

Logic. Amazing stuff, you really should give it a try!