How stupid were (are) we......

I agree with you but the problem is even if it becomes a debate in Congress and votes are being installed to see if it passes through, I know it will be rigged. Why would it be rigged? Because the government knows if the draft would come into effect it would work against them and not for them.

I think there has to be alot done inside the government before we can actually use the system that We the people envision it should be working as.

Our government is corrupt and most likely run by corporations and not the actual people who are suppose to be representing the people.

Although bribery is not allowed it is still happens. I show a example of what I think could be happening. A corporation is being threatened to lose profits so they send a lobbyist to a few Senators. Now since bribery is illegal in Congress they don't offer money to persway them to say yes or no when a vote on a law will be passed, but they will offer a CEO job for their family member to represent the corporation. So the son, brother or whoever gets a 5 or 6 digit job to sit around and do nothing at a corporation to get a senator to vote for a act that works in favor of the corporation. Now the problem is how do we stop this? Some say lobbyists shouldn't be allowed anymore to work in the government or enter it. Some say it is a big mistake to not have lobbyists.

My opinion let us fix our government to where it actually works for the people before asking for things like the draft, increasing minimum wages, fixing illegal immigration, stopping corporations from ripping off the public, destroying labor unions, destroying our social security system, taking advantage of our health care system, and the list goes on for 20 pages if I continued.

We the people have great great ideas on how to fix our economy, how to be better in foreign relations, how to be more savvy in politics, yet these great ideas are nothing if our government doesn't allow us to express them to a way we can actually reinstate them as laws or actions.

"We the people have great great ideas on how to fix our economy, how to be better in foreign relations, how to be more savvy in politics, yet these great ideas are nothing if our government doesn't allow us to express them to a way we can actually reinstate them as laws or actions."

I mentioned this in another thread and it's relevant here.
Dr.King told us that "When you make peaceful revolution impossible, you make violent revolution inevitable."

How sad that we've come to having these conversations, about how to save the dying Republic.

uh hhhmmm uuugggghhhhh

why not send a note to an iranian top ranking official saying

uh how about

on such and such a day at this time of day will are going to attack you but we do not want our hero's in uniform to get hurt so do not try to defend yourself

the people not want anyone to get hurt or die even your people so just surrender and do what yer told and no none will get hurt

oops wrong thread again!!!

I personally don't think it would be wise to attack Iran who is one of the major oil exporters to China and Russia. Nevertheless, what I think will not matter to the executive branch we have. They somehow make their own decisions and have a good way of influencing our Congress to agree with them. I am sure this administration have all received alot of money to cooperate and many will step down from their positions when the new president arrives unless it is Mccain who wins. Then I think many will perhaps stay working to see what else they can stash in their pockets for the next 4 years.

It is just a hunch of how I understand this government thus far.

Not that the Democratic party is any better. I am a independent who believes that both parties are corrupt.

There was a saying from Einstein once.

Why do you keep voting for the same two party system and expect different results? Well to tell you the truth, I call that insanity.

Albert Einstein

"I personally don't think it would be wise to attack Iran who is one of the major oil exporters to China and Russia."


No kidding! Like they are just going to sit back and watch the Globalists in this country, bomb Iran into oblivion, causing both Russia and China to fall into an energy crisis.

i never said it was a good idea

i am just making a point

hey fanta explain it



i have things i need to get done

I got the joke... I swear I did... Would you like me to send that sucker via UPS or will our postal system work just fine for that?

Well warmachine thank you for starting this thread. It is truly a serious matter and one that might cause us much more despair if the government does decide to go along with General Petraeus's plans of doing some attacks on Iran. If this is to happen then there will be more money coming out of our pockets to finance this new war. It will also get alot of other countries involved that may not be in our favor of the decision.

I personally believe that Iran has the right to have electricity just like everyone else. I don't agree they should create nuclear bombs, but I don't think violence is going to resolve the problem. And again who are we to say what they are allowed to have or not. Afterall we are the country who actually used nuclear bombs on a country and not they. If anything they will not be able to create one for Israel will surely get involved with disbandening the project and they are great lobbyists by the way who always find a way to get America involved in the Middle East.

The solution will take a long time and it doesn't seem there will be peace for a long while in the Middle East. We need diplomatic savvy politicians who actually can bring forth solutions and have the ability to negotiate ways to help Iran's economy to stabilize and keep the inhabitants peaceful. I pray that the new staff the new President brings will figure out a solution to bring peace and not more war. That he can bring our troops home or back into Afghanistan where the problems in this country are escalating as we speak and where our true enemy is reestablishing themselves again.

Nevertheless, as I am not a strategist or a politician for good reasons, I do favor above all peace. I do hope you do to and can go beyond thinking that a preemptive attack on any nation is the only solution in resolving problems in this world.

Good luck on future discussions.

I agree with a lot of what you say about how we as a country have got to the point we are now. However, I dont see any tangible suggestions coming from you for a solution, only defeatism. Let me start by addressing the two choices you mention. (IMO)


These are your choices in my opinion:

1. In the long run people complain and whine today and nothing is being done. My suggestion is if it becomes unbearable to live in this country then there are over 20 countries in this world that have a better living standard then this one believe it or not. Countries that provide universal health care, free university that is equivalent to American Degrees, and much more humantarian services for the people in general.
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OK, this is a typical opinion by those who have never served this country or sacrificed any of their personal goals or freedoms to maintain the ones they have benefited from. I am not one of these, I have served and sacrificed. I am going nowhere and find your idea that one should leave for greener pastures akin to the attitude of the millions of illegal immigrants flooding across our border annually looking for what we have and lacking of the courage necessary to stand up against their own corrupt government. I have fought for this country and find your willingness to leave it so easily as defeatist an unamerican.

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2. If you are someone who believes this country is the best and what is going on is valid and righteous then stop whining is my suggestion and continue to live your life understanding that captilism is working in favor for those who want it all. You are part of the system and must live with it to survive its ups and downs with it.

If you are someone who believes the country is going on the wrong track and want to do something about it then there is only one way to tackle power, might, and money. I have mentioned it above of how it can be done. A nationwide protest is necessary. At least 25% if not more of the countries population needs to start getting their lazy asses of the couch and actually scream out what needs to be done and not continue to listen to promises that are never accomplished.
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Complacency abounds is this country. You are correct in this statement, but leaving as you have said you will, helps nothing. You can post and talk all day about your ideas to improve the situation of "we the people", but unless you are willing to stay, educate the masses, and put your words to action, then you are doing nothing but blowing smoke and adding to the problem. Complacency has a natural way of running out of gas. As more and more people are affected by the policies which are occurring they will eventually wake up. Fortunately, and unfortunately, the true Americans as throughout history have demonstrated will rise up and right the wrongs through force.
They will not run and seek greener pastures. The majority of Americans are not defeatist. They do not run when things get tough.

The *****ing and whining you hear was an ability that was designed into our great Republic and has been exercised frequently throughout our history. It is nothing new and has kept us from violence for over two hundred years. I say *****, let your voice be heard and maybe it will stop the violence again.

So you run, IMO we should leave a box at every exit point so those who choose to do so can deposit their rights to American citizenship into...

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I personally am going for the first option and probably become a sheep herder in New Zealand(exxaggerated) away from political lies, corporation abuse, and the ongoing enduring whines of Americans who know what is going on but feel they are helpless or choose not doing anything about it.

This message isn't directed to you warmachine and I really appreciate what you display each day to read. It is educational and it is too bad that not many more people take the time to really study this government like you have.

I hope you change your mind about leaving. Your fellow Americans can use your intelligence!!!

Dear sir,

I did mention a third reaction that Americans normally use.I just didn't number it. If you scroll back up you will read it below point 2. I will post it below for you to read incase you missed it.

3. If you are someone who believes the country is going on the wrong track and want to do something about it then there is only one way to tackle power, might, and money. I have mentioned it above of how it can be done. A nationwide protest is necessary. At least 25% if not more of the countries population needs to start getting their lazy asses of the couch and actually scream out what needs to be done and not continue to listen to promises that are never accomplished.


This is something that Americans can also use.

So let us sum it up.

1. Leave the country and give up the citizenship to attain a new citizenship in a country that has better savvy politicians and a better way of running the economy.

2. Stop whining and accept what the government has been doing and live the life given to you.

3. Go out and let your mind be heard and assemble enough people to make a movement.

These are the choices. I personally prefer 1st option as I fell in love with a different country, system, people, and culture.


I was merely suggesting the options and I do recognize the problems this country is facing and they are truly hard ones to solve for there are always two answers to a question that sounds logical. It is why this country is so split up at the moment.

It has always been that way here. It took 12 yrs before enough states to ratify the constitution and adopt it. It was not until the bill of rights was added that NC and RI accepted it.

We have bickered and fought amongst ourselves ever since day one. Its a healthy process that has led to the success we as a nation enjoy!
Anyone thinking different or expecting that to change is "fanta"sizing!!

How do you like that play on words???

Yes this country has been through alot in its over 200 years of existence. Very true. I feel the causes and reasons for these problems in those times were more valid then todays problematic issues where it is a given obvious.
Nevertheless, I am sure that this country will rebound again somehow one day. There are plenty of smart people who will find a way to do this.
Just for a thought; imagine how many political forums are on the internet in existence today. The many arguments, ideas, agreements and even disagreements are in session as we speak. Perhaps it will spark an idea that will find a way to help change idealogies or even decisions that could be vital for this country.
In todays technology people communicate and bring a message across differently then those who did 30 years ago.

We shall see and good luck fanta in the political forums.