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| Topic: FUTURIST BELIEF'S ARE INCORRECT | |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Sat 07/05/08 01:35 PM
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no offense taken at all tribo.......quite to the contrary, your posts are inspring and have taught me many things i SEE great wisdom in and even build MORE FAITH IN THE TRUTH KNOWING AND CONTROLLING ALL THINGS FOR GREAT BLISSFUL PURPOSE.......so keep em comin man.......
my words are as anyone elses, with each word having power to perform it's intended purpose....... if even i deem to know the purpose, then will not my words be shaped and crafted for my own purpose........ words are based soley by interpretation of the mind or heart, and as there be past, present, and future for BOTH the mind and heart, there be 6 total possible root purposes for each word spoken, and as there be many UNIQUE minds, many interpretations will be SEEN..........to speak them ALL as one sees fit in as much honesty from the heart as one can muster is all the GREATEST power each have, and the ONE GREATEST thing that i could ever WISH to say to you personally........ the true and final interpretation of all words is NEVER known until such time they are ALL made understood to all, and when is this time to be that any of us know....... indeed, many have not yet come to see the UNWEILDING POWER of words yet, and that indeed they have CREATED ALL each see in the world, and the unseen world........peace |
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no offense taken at all tribo.......quite to the contrary, your posts are inspring and have taught me many things i SEE great wisdom in and even build MORE FAITH IN THE TRUTH KNOWING AND CONTROLLING ALL THINGS FOR GREAT BLISSFUL PURPOSE.......so keep em comin man....... my words are as anyone elses, with each word having power to perform it's intended purpose....... if even i deem to know the purpose, then will not my words be shaped and crafted for my own purpose........ words are based soley by interpretation of the mind or heart, and as there be past, present, and future for BOTH the mind and heart, there be 6 total possible root purposes for each word spoken, and as there be many UNIQUE minds, many interpretations will be SEEN..........to speak them ALL as one sees fit in as much honesty from the heart as one can muster is all the GREATEST power each have, and the ONE GREATEST thing that i could ever WISH to say to you personally........ the true and final interpretation of all words is NEVER known until such time they are ALL made understood to all, and when is this time to be that any of us know....... indeed, many have not yet come to see the UNWEILDING POWER of words yet, and that indeed they have CREATED ALL each see in the world, and the unseen world........peace david, i must say that you make very illogical, logical sense my friend. again this is good not bad, i will try to see the word's meanings more clearly as i am able. 
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tribo.....
even as you have spoken in COMPLETE honesty, your GREATEST DESIRES of the heart will be made created and known by the same........peace my dear friend as well |
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wouldee again speaks in riddles.
the whole of the argument is made by those that do not comprehend that the Holy Spirit IS Jesus Christ. Period.
Yes we know that you view the Holy Spirit as Jesus Christ, and then maybe Jesus Christ was not a man after all. If you claim that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ.. PERIOD and then so many times you have laid claim to be filled with the holy spirit, then I guess that you have decided that you are Christ himself returned. Perhaps the man was just a man named Jesuha ben Panthera, a Jewish Rabbi, a man like any other man. Not a God at all. Perhaps its all just an abstract idea to you, because you certainly speak abstractly in every post, never actually addressing the real subject at hand which is the religion you profess to be part of called Christianity. But maybe you don't consider yourself a part of that old religion and maybe you threw your Bible away years ago and decided that you are the manifestation of god or Christ on earth yourself, but just have not found a way to say so in a tactful manner. When do you plan to reveal yourself to the world as the messiah if that be the case? JB |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Sat 07/05/08 05:08 PM
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the whole of the argument is made by those that do not comprehend that the Holy Spirit IS Jesus Christ. Period. and the "winter" spoken of, is the winter of one's life, but not limited to that. Men did not know that all of the letters and ancient scriptures would become such a collection of testimonies pointing to the person of Jesus Christ in it's present form as acceptable and suitable and sufficient to lead anyone to a basic saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and the promises of God. It is called canon for this very reason. But we are all called to be living letters. That is facilitated by the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ, and we, so endued and indwelt, are His ambassadors, and taught and nurtured by Jesus Christ Himself by the person of the Holy Spirit, which is also called, the Mind of Christ, and the Comforter. As far as personal winters go, one who enters the knigdom of God as a child, newly reborn, late in carnal life, has a short season to grow and be perfected into the very image of Jesus Christ which is what we are called to be conformed to, as the Church of Jesus Christ. That is a warning not to forsake opportunity in abundance. This is the Age of Grace and the Church Age. This will come to the full, someday. What is being overlooked by doctrinal arguments over "my way or the highway" is no different than what is being overlooked by any. Personal proof of Christ's imminent return manifests in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the individual. That is wholly argumentative, short of being one's reality. Christianity is Christianity because of the gift of the Holy Spirit, and will always be the truth that gives the individual the true witness of God and not just the witness of men. If we are to witness anything, let it be that the Holy Spirit is that which we have a witness of (God's). That is personal and that is the deal. Ultimately, that is what makes the Church of Jesus Christ what we are ; a family, a house, built by Jesus Christ Himself, and no other. Judging the house is impossible from the outside. The only way to judge the house is from the inside. The inside view is personal and for each to discover for oneself. And the inside view is only given by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to each individual person. Winter is here for many and it is cold outside. the same is true in every generation. But in the Church of Jesus Christ, young and old are welcome. It just may be that the youths are the elders, and the elders are the youths after the carnal life in the flesh is over. Jesus also said, "the first shall be last and the last shall be first." That makes no sense to you. It makes perfect sense to me. I am arrogant in your eyes. You are yet uncertain, in mine. That is not something either one of us can change, nor will we by our own will. It is impossible. But what is impossible with man is possible with God. It doesn't make me more justified than in you in my judgement or yours, but it does mean that God will judge me in the diligence of the abundance of what He has given me by the Holy Spirit. If you think I am judged more favorably by God for the gifts within me, know that I am required to be judged more for my knowledge of God than you because of much having been given me. Jesus also said, "to whom much is given, much is required." If that sounds harsh, it is because the Love of God that overcomes all trepidations and fears and quaking also accompanies the charge and that cannot be observed, nor understood, nor comprehended from the outside, as long as the individual remains alienated from God as winter approaches. If that sounds ludicrous and self serving and partial and judgemental and aloof and arrogant and delusional, so be it. Double entendres abound. metaphors abound. allegories abound. sin abounds. But grace does more abound in Christ. and it remains, that this is all double talk coming from me, for many more than comprehend me. until the Holy Spirit arrives in your heart.  
and that, tribo, and others, is the difference. you know it, I know it, God knows it, and all must wrestle with it. win, lose or draw. 
then why does your faith teach end time doctrine at all wouldee? why not take the "flood" of end time books off your zondervan and others shelves that have been coming anew for decades? if it is of no import, why even discuss it among yourselves, yet alone try to persuade others new or on the outside of these things?? You claim it's of no import yet your beliefs overflow your stores with information by literally dozens of writer's on this subject of both pre mid post rapture scenario's to be taken as truth, and then other's fighting against it because it is wrong?? is it that only you and those who think exactly like you really have the truth?? or if your speaking for yourself that it is only you? You can state what you state, that's fine - but to tell me on one hand that your way now is "the" way to look at all - and all this commotion of last things is garbage no matter who is expounding it/them, is something you then should be pressing upon those doing such within your belief system. As i say i see a huge discrepancy between the two and both cannot be right, what i can plainly see though is that preterist views are closer to truth than those now held by the majority, if not so then preterism would not be at all. they are supposedly filled with the same spirit as you, are they not? so are you then saying that your spirit and beliefs of future things are more correct than theirs? if so then are there two holy ghost? if not then something with in your belief system is terribly wrong! would your god allow two such opposite takes on the parousia to exist within his body? jesus' return and it's time of occurence is at the core of your belief's to say it's something that is less is folly! again, tribo, you assume to much. not a slight, at all, of your person. Your consternaton and perplexity is with churchianity, the pseudo-christianity. The falsehoods of those that point to themselves and profit carnally from their works. They have their reward, tribo. Here. 
As for speaking for others, I cannot. I speak for myself of the witness of God that I bear. I am not alone, nor am I considered marginal in the faith. As for admonishing the individuals that purpose the licentious views of indiscriminate willful enthusiasm for 'tickling ears' I can assure you that I do not condone nor defend manipulating the truth of the gospel by any. I disagree, however, that the 'preterist' view is any more viable than the 'futurist' view, as you put it and neither is the majority view of Holy Spirit filled Christians. These and other doctrinal discourses are the minutia of distraacted individuals within the Christian community and many speak in their immaturity and lack of discipline regarding the import of the written record of the gospel and its truthes. As for Jesus' return to the earth, it is truth. When and exactly how that will transpire is not given us and no man can testify in the Holy Spirit that any one answer to that is correct. To do so is a lie perpetrated by the individual, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has testified to me about 1 Thessalonains 4 and not in the contexts given. Assuredly, we are under authority of man and God, especially in Christ, but we are not here to change God's word, we are here to preserve it. I assure you that the Holy Spirit does not add to the scriptures so preserved at all. Enough has been said to put Him in a box, yet those whose faith rests in the unchanging record so well exposed to the world at large as the Word of God in Jesus Christ is sufficient of itself to bring any person to God, in Christ. There is no need to add to it or subtract from it. As a reference point, it is a fence of reproof and correction as sound doctrine of the will of God in Christ and to be exhorted as such. Many that enter spiritual warfare find comfort in the unchanging nature of that which has already been given and mature and ordinary men greatly moved by God and given the unction to preach and teach with the power of the Holy Spirit need not redefine simple truthes to suit contemporary vascillations and trends and fads. Nothing is perfect when man takes charge, tribo. There is nothing wrong with Christianity, tribo, but there is something wrong with mankind. Man is bent on seeking ambitions led by advantage and privelege of person and the temptation to vaunt oneself as a great man of God with great works is a self willed error. period. Pride and lust and covetousness are common to man and the Holy Spirit is grieved by such things in any man, Christian or not. The Holy Spirit will cease to give the witness of God in the one so doing out of the will of God, in Christ. But the individual so doing may not be stopped in conscience if flattery and applause and praise accompany such smoothness. Neverteless, the Holy Spirit still reaches into the hearts of those seeking Him, even if they find themselves in the company of erroneous doctrine, because, the gospel message is preached, either in love or contentiousness, and the word of God will not return void. It reaches the heart of all who hear it or read it and none is unaffected. Not all respond to it openly and admittedly either.
Fortunate and blessed is the person that comes to the Lord with a sound mind and uses their faculties of discernment to ferret out the errors for themselves with the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit. That is the best medicine, tribo. It is actually the preferred intent of God. It is actually what Jesus intends. He is king, not man. He is the head, we are the body. He leads, we follow. What you see and take issue with is only fodder for your own reticence. Take control of your own life and seek the Lord for yourself, first and foremost. If and when He receives you, as I have no idea what your history with the Lord is, then learn from Him and grow. He will send saints into your path. Know that. We are in the earth and He sends us where He wants to comfort and encourage one of His own young spiritual children. You will not be left alone to fend for yourself in any case. These contrivances and spiritual tug od wars have been going on since the beginning, tribo. It will not end, prior to the Lord's return, either. Between you and I , as men, I had no clue what was going on before I was apprehended by the Lord. It hasn't stopped me, and it doesn't prevent the Lord, either. The Lord still brings souls to rest in Himself. That hasn't changed. If you want something to chew on, chew on this. Pastors are apt to elevate themselves as the possessing the first office in the Church of Jesus Christ and yet, scripture relegates pastors to a lesser office. They were originally the building superintendents of each gathering place. They were never intended to be apostolic authority, yet they persist in vaunting themselves to the highest esteem. The kids are running the store, it seems. But the product is still only deseminated by God. You chew on that. (Ephesians 4:11)read on past the verse, if you like, in Ephesians.
Paul also said this in 1 Thessalonians 2:3-12.\ This, in essence, reflects where I am spiritually. "For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile : But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak ; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloak of covetousness ; God is witness : Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse ( this means breast feeding, tribo) cherisheth her children : So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel only, but also our own souls, because yoiu were dear unto us. For ye remember, brthren, our labor and travail : for laboring night and day, because we would not be chargeable ( bought without a proce, yet paying with our lives, tribo) unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God. Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe : As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged everyone of you, as a father doth his children, That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory. men that are otherwise are suspect, tribo. The gospel is not for sale. Men have no right to sell access to God, or rent forgiveness and reconciliation to God. God is the Maker, and God alone is whose kingdom this is. The Church, as Paul has set as an example for its leaders to follow in his footsteps by his behavior and selfsame example, is to deny oneself and teach others of of how they too can expect to grow in the Spirit and be conformed into the image of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, into the stature of that which is perfect before God. Winter is fast approaching. It is cold outside. Warm your heart. peace, out.
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Sat 07/05/08 04:59 PM
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wouldee again speaks in riddles. the whole of the argument is made by those that do not comprehend that the Holy Spirit IS Jesus Christ. Period.
Yes we know that you view the Holy Spirit as Jesus Christ, and then maybe Jesus Christ was not a man after all. If you claim that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ.. PERIOD and then so many times you have laid claim to be filled with the holy spirit, then I guess that you have decided that you are Christ himself returned. Perhaps the man was just a man named Jesuha ben Panthera, a Jewish Rabbi, a man like any other man. Not a God at all. Perhaps its all just an abstract idea to you, because you certainly speak abstractly in every post, never actually addressing the real subject at hand which is the religion you profess to be part of called Christianity. But maybe you don't consider yourself a part of that old religion and maybe you threw your Bible away years ago and decided that you are the manifestation of god or Christ on earth yourself, but just have not found a way to say so in a tactful manner. When do you plan to reveal yourself to the world as the messiah if that be the case? JB JB, you are a nut. 
It is not my game, dear. I am but a man fortunate to have been blessed with much from God and the Holy Spirit is very much respected and admired and loved and honored with all that is possible from me. I am along for the ride and the benefit is that I have a close rlationship with God that is very favorable. It is called the grace of God. But the righteousness I know of is not my own, it is Jesus Christ's righteousness. I don't have any righteousness of my own. I know that better than any.
He gives me access to His, but it is not mine to do with. It is given to me to share that which He gives me, but that doesn't benefit me, it benefits Jesus Christ and His Church and its potential growth in truth and love. I have my reward already....HIM!!!!!! WHat that means to anyone else does not change anything for me at all. I am dependent upon God, and apart from God, I would be where I was still, which is not where I wanted to remain, obviously. 
Mockery is humorous to me though. It is a riddle, isn't it? I am hid in Christ, so why would I expose the riches of Christ to any that will not press in for themselves? It is a mystery, isn't it? Why should I make it easier for anyoine than God has already made it for all? What were once parables are monuments on the trail of our pilgrimage. What is plainly visible in the Spirit of God is invisible to carnal eyes, yet I have them too, and they see carnal things. But with the eyes of my understanding, I see invisible things, and they are more real than the visible. There is no end to riddles, Jeanniebean. peace, out.
 
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My point Wouldee, is that you do not face the issues and flaws or questions of your own religion that you profess to believe in. You just seem to dance around the subject.
Rather, you seem like you are high on the idea that the holy spirit of god (or Jesus Christ) fills your being and then you claim that Jesus Christ is the Holy spirit...period. Really? Is that who Jesus Christ is? The Holy spirit? That same holy spirit that fills you and lives in you? Well if Jesus Christ/The Holy Spirit occupies and fills your body, then does that not make you the righteous one? Does that not make you the embodiment of god or Jesus Christ in the flesh? Or are you merely possessed as a demon would possess a person's body? Does Jesus Christ go around possessing bodies now? How does that work exactly? Is man not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus Christ a living man or was he not? Was he both man and a god or was he not? Did he die and come back to life or not? Is he going to come again on a cloud or has he already returned in AD 70 as some people (and the bible) claims? You said this: Personal proof of Christ's imminent return manifests in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the individual.
If Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, now "indwelling in the individual" or in you, then he has ALREADY RETURNED! And apparently he has possessed you, and others like you who are high on the Holy Spirit. Hence proof that Jesus Christ has already returned and is here now as the holy spirit, dwelling in or possessing bodies. So when do you intend to announce that fact? JB |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Sat 07/05/08 05:52 PM
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My point Wouldee, is that you do not face the issues and flaws or questions of your own religion that you profess to believe in. You just seem to dance around the subject. Rather, you seem like you are high on the idea that the holy spirit of god (or Jesus Christ) fills your being and then you claim that Jesus Christ is the Holy spirit...period. Really? Is that who Jesus Christ is? The Holy spirit? That same holy spirit that fills you and lives in you? Well if Jesus Christ/The Holy Spirit occupies and fills your body, then does that not make you the righteous one? Does that not make you the embodiment of god or Jesus Christ in the flesh? Or are you merely possessed as a demon would possess a person's body? Does Jesus Christ go around possessing bodies now? How does that work exactly? Is man not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus Christ a living man or was he not? Was he both man and a god or was he not? Did he die and come back to life or not? Is he going to come again on a cloud or has he already returned in AD 70 as some people (and the bible) claims? You said this: Personal proof of Christ's imminent return manifests in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the individual.
If Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, now "indwelling in the individual" or in you, then he has ALREADY RETURNED! And apparently he has possessed you, and others like you who are high on the Holy Spirit. Hence proof that Jesus Christ has already returned and is here now as the holy spirit, dwelling in or possessing bodies. So when do you intend to announce that fact? JB yup. He is Almighty God, JB. and you picked up what tribo doesn't get. he has returned, to build a household. The Church. yup. you got it. That is the point. But later, he will return physically and that........... well, let's just say, grace isn't so much the issue as far as faith goes. Faith is not required in His presence. All will know, but they , those yet remaining,won't be the Church of Jesus Christ. yup. you are seeing my point. cool.
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dearest wouldbe.......i know it be all truth that has spoken to you thus far, and that you hold dear as a patriarch to what has been revealed, but would you for a moment consider just one thing that would be the hardest thing you have EVER considered with a total honest open heart.......i hear and agree with youjr wisdom in manyn things, but there seems some things that just cannot add to all the truth of the text you believe in..........
it seems it was spoken within text that all life be from the holy ghost, and even "in the beginning" it was said that the "holy spirit" hovered the earth, and all things were then created........if all things are created by something as a holy spirit, would not then ALL things created HAVE to contain the same........... seems indeed jesus was said concieved by the holy spirit, and john was said to recieve it while in the womb, and if even the world was said to be formed by it......... it was spoken that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL IN GODS SIGHT, so this would lead that all men would have to be born with a holy spirit, and indeed even animals then having two spirit, one of fear and one of love....... if all are created as equal, then how could one be filled and another one not, and the truth of this be maintained...... indeed it writes in genesis that first TWO spirits went out INTO ALL THE WORLD........into already......spirit of god and holy spirit, or just fear and love as many times stated..... it seems it was said that after such time as jesus death, the "comforter" or holy spirit would be sent back in "greater measure", and what else be more prominent after the death of christ but the FEAR of one to save themself all the more, having seen and now MANY believed that after his DEATH he had RISEN..........so indeed the holy spirit had come in GREATER MEASURE........what man would not have the greatest fear if he know his destiny is to be CRUCIFIED.......i can only imagine...... it seems nothing be born then that does not have fear, and that fear be the tuteledge that guide each....... "what is born of the spirit be born of the holy spirit" it was said......seems BOTH are in a man when he is born, and then one FEAR or HOLY SPIRIT come to an end in it's time of wisdom, just as jesus displayed when he GAVE UP his own will to SAVE himself....... this seems to hold true to the wisdom spoken that "any man that SEEK TO SAVE his life shall lose it, and any that LAY DOWN THEIR LIFE shall gain it"...... even jesus spoke "father, father, why hast thou forsaken me" when feeling the pain of doing so an indicate the FEAR each pass thru to releieve themself of a holy spirit of fear in it's time...... also paul reports after having been freed from the law of fear of death , "oh death where is thy sting, grave where is thy victory"........seems again this holy spirit was present even for paul, until such time as he had understanding of all things thru FEAR, and then perfect love only remained, eliminating any NEED to EVER FEAR DEATH......"perfect love" could cast out the fear of the holy spirit that once guided and taught all by creating a proplusion to seek what be good and bad for a time, until experience of the holy spirit or fear had become as wisdom, and no longer ran from death, so no longer preached death to any other mortal........ paul did speak of not stumbling those who had not been freed of such FEAR OF DEATH......."some save by love and some by fear", meaning some of a human life will be led by fear, and some by love, making indeed BOTH present, and not love or fear to be greater until all is fullfilled by when understanding of universe or god be understood............ indeed it seems ALL HUMANKIND DISPLAY THESE FEAR AND LOVE CHARACTERISTICS REGARDLESS OF RACE OR RELIGION....... yes indeed, all things be not filled to a total measure with the holy spirit at first, as even GREATER measure was said to be given jesus, as would be so fitting for one that was to conquer all FEAR for ones own crucifiction, but how does one conquer what one does not first know or contain........ it was spoken after he had been in the desert, that the "spirit" of god decended like a dove........again not a HOLY SPIRIT, as this was already in him from birth, and why it needed to decend from above.........was it possible to fill with more what was already had in FULL MEASURE......so it seems it could not have been the SAME THING, and why it CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN........ it was also spoken he asked for this cup to pass, which show still fear or holy spirit at this point....... so holy spirit made ask to remove cup, and spirit of god said IF IT BE POSSIBLE, of course meaning not my will but yours.......no self saving from the spirit of god, but indeed from a holy sprit "what can cast out itself and it's house be not divided", truly meaning the house would be divided, as certainally all men are MOST divided by fear and love...... even jesus was divided in will by FEAR AND LOVE.......he wept when lazurus was dead, but then rose him up......this prove he did not SEE the future of all or would not have cried........and who cry if they KNOW another will be brought back from the dead....... he was flesh of flesh and bone of bone as any man, just as the text bare witness of........ so jesus could not have yet knew the FULL wisdom of god, and so could not be as god himself, and indeed he never called himself as god, but only men have done such..........indeed this seems to be witnessed when he said, "i have felt in all ways as you" ALL ways it says....... that would MEAN ALL......birth then alike......then all are birthed from the same source the holy sprit, and contain the spirit of god as well.......who could feel love if they have not the spirit of god, and who could feel hate if not having a holy spirit that FIRST DECIDE AN ACTION WAS GOOD OR BAD........ so there is no evil seed or good seed........and why he jesus said he was honored to call ALL as friends...... his "father" had used first FEAR to teach, just as each human now, but the truth wipe away all tears, which would have to be caused then by NO FEAR OF NOT HAVING SALVATION...... this be the thing that is passed away in a time when all scriptures are made known....... even this was evidenced by jesus in the desert when satan came and tempted him....to conqer death or fear or holy spirit, he has to say I WONT LISTEN TO A SCRIPTURE THAT TRY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO......i wish to not eat so i dont.....if one look to see what be good or bad to judge their own salvation, then this PROVE they seek to save themself again does it not......no truth can be maintained of any scriptures when this be done.... how can any man then in a day of redemption be told a scripture of what mnake good or what make bad, but indeed all scriptures will be laid bare of ALL THEIR POWER OF FEAR HAVING HEARD THEM THRU A HOLY SPIRIT............. after this for jesus it was reported that HE WAS GIVEN THE KEYS TO LIFE AND DEATH, SO NO MORE FEAR OF DEATH, AND THIS CANNOT BE UNLESS ONE SEE HOW IT WAS CREATED AND WHY AND HOW IT SHALL END.......... it is seen even all animals then ALSO have this HOLY SPIRIT OR "SELF-PRESERVATION"......what shall make all aniamls happen to come to no more FEAR, as even now one see many already lost much of the former fear....... the lion shall lay down with the lamb........once thought evil shall lay down with the once thought saint..... THIS IS WHAT IS TO PASS AWAY WHEN THE WHOLE TRUTH BE HEARD........HOLY SPIRIT could a deception that the holy ghost be the GREATEST indicator of salvation cause fear even unknowingly to be worshipped, as if any FEAR NOT FOR THEIR OWN SALVATION, THAN WHY WOULD THEY ASK FOR A HOLY SPRIT......... even in asking for what one think SAVE themself, show proof that one seek to SAVE themself, and put THEMSELF UNDER MORE PRESENT FEAR and bondage to a law of what be holy and not holy...... indeed many have struggled with this since the time jesus walked, but indeed it seems that to "SEE AS GOD SEE" BE THE ONLY TRUTH OF WHOLE SIGHT, AND HE "GOD" OR WHOLE TRUTH SEEN ALL AS EQUAL, so there HAS TO BE A WHOLE TRUTH ABLE TO MAKE ALL SEE HOW, or how can the wisdom of the father have fully come OR MADE KNOWN WITHIN.......... it did state that the "spirit" and bride say come, NOT HOLY SPIRIT...... what friend can look at another and say this be holy or that be holy and be as friends with COMMON UNDERSTANDING........if any man be common or one with his FATHER, will not both SEE AS THE SAME........ even again it state ALL must also have this HOLY SPIRIT, as it was said the "holy spirit fall on the just and unjust, so the first unjust become just, and the just become as unjust, and now EQUALITY BE HAD BY ALL, all having passed thru be the end the same stages........it did say what be sin for one be not sin for another, AS ALL PASS THRU ALL THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES TO MAINTAIN THE ONCE ILLUSION OF EVIL AND GOOD...... then humankind can get down to work releasing all from the things that evcen grieved themself, such as all the things men have spoken to be sins, which caused ALL to sin, and why it was needed, but indeed this time has PASSED AWAY EVEN ALREADY ACCORDING TO ALL SCRIPTURES......... what fall on man by god that does not have the power to consume in entirety, as it was said that the fire or HOLY SPIRIT OR FEAR OF GOD CONSUME AS STUBLE, LEAVING NOTHING REMAING, AND THAT THERE WOULD BE THIS OUTPOURING, SO IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENDED, AND THIS TIME BE COMING TO A CLOSE EVEN NOW AS WORDS ARE SPOKEN ALL OVER THE GLOBE...... CAN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD FAIL IN ANY PURPOSE TO BECOME JUST AS THE SPIRIT OF GOD INTEND, AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHALL PERISH, SO NONE PERISH!!! THIS BE THE ONLY PERIOD SPOKEN THAT SHALL ETERNALLY AND FOREVER STAND. peace |
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wouldee i have read your post now - thnx, now you read my original post since your so sure of what you say and point by point you tell me if what is stated by them (the preterist) is in line with what the spirit dwelling within you tells you or not. If not, then "show me" where "they are wrong"?? otherwise stop posting, this is for any others who wish to ""show me"" their (the preterist') view's are wrong - don't tell me they are wrong - show me with your spirit that you have and with the guidance he gives you that your right! "point by point"! not just some general statements as is always done but ""point by point"", either put and end to this lie if it is so - or read and accept it as truth - that's all - thnx
tribo |
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Hi David,
here is your question.... dearest wouldbe.......i know it be all truth that has spoken to you thus far, and that you hold dear as a patriarch to what has been revealed, but would you for a moment consider just one thing that would be the hardest thing you have EVER considered with a total honest open heart.......i hear and agree with youjr wisdom in manyn things, but there seems some things that just cannot add to all the truth of the text you believe in.......... it seems it was spoken within text that all life be from the holy ghost, and even "in the beginning" it was said that the "holy spirit" hovered the earth, and all things were then created........if all things are created by something as a holy spirit, would not then ALL things created HAVE to contain the same........... Here is my answer.... NO. The Holy Spirit did all that and more but at no time was given to be a permanent manifestation on any human, apart from Jesus Christ. What was exemplified a foreshadowing of all things made covenant between Himself and man. The Holy Spirit is given to make the Bride fit for the Husband. The Church of Jesus Christ is the bride. We are betrothed to Jesus by the Holy Spirit. That's the deal. That is the apprehension, not the judgement seat. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. the scriptures are also a shadow of that which is , in Christ, if be it so, one is hid in Christ. basically......
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wouldee i have read your post now - thnx, now you read my original post since your so sure of what you say and point by point you tell me if what is stated by them (the preterist) is in line with what the spirit dwelling within you tells you or not. If not, then "show me" where "they are wrong"?? otherwise stop posting, this is for any others who wish to ""show me"" their (the preterist') view's are wrong - don't tell me they are wrong - show me with your spirit that you have and with the guidance he gives you that your right! "point by point"! not just some general statements as is always done but ""point by point"", either put and end to this lie if it is so - or read and accept it as truth - that's all - thnx tribo I did read it, and did so diligently so, tribo. I have been shown this doctrine many many years ago. It won't fly. and what you fail to comprehend about my response is that the answer is for you find for yourself from the Holy Spirit. Outside of that, which is CORE to our faith in Christ, for it is the faith of Jesus which we have been given, there is no viable answer. It is contrary to scripture and cannot harmonize itself comletely. It is snagged on half truths and a lack of context. None of these two views is correct. period. Go to God or let it go. The only accomplishment visible to me from your insistence is your seeking for further excuse to abstain from entering into the promises of God for yourself. There is no other point to your reticence. Others certainly applaud and flatter your query, but it is all just excuses and folly and vanity. The sincerity in the pursuit of the righteousness of God comes from seeking God, not in clever mach8inations of God's words. Be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. I know you have been beat over the head with that one many times. Heed it. peace, out.
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dearest wouldbe.......i know it be all truth that has spoken to you thus far, and that you hold dear as a patriarch to what has been revealed, but would you for a moment consider just one thing that would be the hardest thing you have EVER considered with a total honest open heart.......i hear and agree with youjr wisdom in manyn things, but there seems some things that just cannot add to all the truth of the text you believe in.......... it seems it was spoken within text that all life be from the holy ghost, and even "in the beginning" it was said that the "holy spirit" hovered the earth, and all things were then created........if all things are created by something as a holy spirit, would not then ALL things created HAVE to contain the same........... seems indeed jesus was said concieved by the holy spirit, and john was said to recieve it while in the womb, and if even the world was said to be formed by it......... it was spoken that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL IN GODS SIGHT, so this would lead that all men would have to be born with a holy spirit, and indeed even animals then having two spirit, one of fear and one of love....... if all are created as equal, then how could one be filled and another one not, and the truth of this be maintained...... indeed it writes in genesis that first TWO spirits went out INTO ALL THE WORLD........into already......spirit of god and holy spirit, or just fear and love as many times stated..... it seems it was said that after such time as jesus death, the "comforter" or holy spirit would be sent back in "greater measure", and what else be more prominent after the death of christ but the FEAR of one to save themself all the more, having seen and now MANY believed that after his DEATH he had RISEN..........so indeed the holy spirit had come in GREATER MEASURE........what man would not have the greatest fear if he know his destiny is to be CRUCIFIED.......i can only imagine...... it seems nothing be born then that does not have fear, and that fear be the tuteledge that guide each....... "what is born of the spirit be born of the holy spirit" it was said......seems BOTH are in a man when he is born, and then one FEAR or HOLY SPIRIT come to an end in it's time of wisdom, just as jesus displayed when he GAVE UP his own will to SAVE himself....... this seems to hold true to the wisdom spoken that "any man that SEEK TO SAVE his life shall lose it, and any that LAY DOWN THEIR LIFE shall gain it"...... even jesus spoke "father, father, why hast thou forsaken me" when feeling the pain of doing so an indicate the FEAR each pass thru to releieve themself of a holy spirit of fear in it's time...... also paul reports after having been freed from the law of fear of death , "oh death where is thy sting, grave where is thy victory"........seems again this holy spirit was present even for paul, until such time as he had understanding of all things thru FEAR, and then perfect love only remained, eliminating any NEED to EVER FEAR DEATH......"perfect love" could cast out the fear of the holy spirit that once guided and taught all by creating a proplusion to seek what be good and bad for a time, until experience of the holy spirit or fear had become as wisdom, and no longer ran from death, so no longer preached death to any other mortal........ paul did speak of not stumbling those who had not been freed of such FEAR OF DEATH......."some save by love and some by fear", meaning some of a human life will be led by fear, and some by love, making indeed BOTH present, and not love or fear to be greater until all is fullfilled by when understanding of universe or god be understood............ indeed it seems ALL HUMANKIND DISPLAY THESE FEAR AND LOVE CHARACTERISTICS REGARDLESS OF RACE OR RELIGION....... yes indeed, all things be not filled to a total measure with the holy spirit at first, as even GREATER measure was said to be given jesus, as would be so fitting for one that was to conquer all FEAR for ones own crucifiction, but how does one conquer what one does not first know or contain........ it was spoken after he had been in the desert, that the "spirit" of god decended like a dove........again not a HOLY SPIRIT, as this was already in him from birth, and why it needed to decend from above.........was it possible to fill with more what was already had in FULL MEASURE......so it seems it could not have been the SAME THING, and why it CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN........ it was also spoken he asked for this cup to pass, which show still fear or holy spirit at this point....... so holy spirit made ask to remove cup, and spirit of god said IF IT BE POSSIBLE, of course meaning not my will but yours.......no self saving from the spirit of god, but indeed from a holy sprit "what can cast out itself and it's house be not divided", truly meaning the house would be divided, as certainally all men are MOST divided by fear and love...... even jesus was divided in will by FEAR AND LOVE.......he wept when lazurus was dead, but then rose him up......this prove he did not SEE the future of all or would not have cried........and who cry if they KNOW another will be brought back from the dead....... he was flesh of flesh and bone of bone as any man, just as the text bare witness of........ so jesus could not have yet knew the FULL wisdom of god, and so could not be as god himself, and indeed he never called himself as god, but only men have done such..........indeed this seems to be witnessed when he said, "i have felt in all ways as you" ALL ways it says....... that would MEAN ALL......birth then alike......then all are birthed from the same source the holy sprit, and contain the spirit of god as well.......who could feel love if they have not the spirit of god, and who could feel hate if not having a holy spirit that FIRST DECIDE AN ACTION WAS GOOD OR BAD........ so there is no evil seed or good seed........and why he jesus said he was honored to call ALL as friends...... his "father" had used first FEAR to teach, just as each human now, but the truth wipe away all tears, which would have to be caused then by NO FEAR OF NOT HAVING SALVATION...... this be the thing that is passed away in a time when all scriptures are made known....... even this was evidenced by jesus in the desert when satan came and tempted him....to conqer death or fear or holy spirit, he has to say I WONT LISTEN TO A SCRIPTURE THAT TRY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO......i wish to not eat so i dont.....if one look to see what be good or bad to judge their own salvation, then this PROVE they seek to save themself again does it not......no truth can be maintained of any scriptures when this be done.... how can any man then in a day of redemption be told a scripture of what mnake good or what make bad, but indeed all scriptures will be laid bare of ALL THEIR POWER OF FEAR HAVING HEARD THEM THRU A HOLY SPIRIT............. after this for jesus it was reported that HE WAS GIVEN THE KEYS TO LIFE AND DEATH, SO NO MORE FEAR OF DEATH, AND THIS CANNOT BE UNLESS ONE SEE HOW IT WAS CREATED AND WHY AND HOW IT SHALL END.......... it is seen even all animals then ALSO have this HOLY SPIRIT OR "SELF-PRESERVATION"......what shall make all aniamls happen to come to no more FEAR, as even now one see many already lost much of the former fear....... the lion shall lay down with the lamb........once thought evil shall lay down with the once thought saint..... THIS IS WHAT IS TO PASS AWAY WHEN THE WHOLE TRUTH BE HEARD........HOLY SPIRIT could a deception that the holy ghost be the GREATEST indicator of salvation cause fear even unknowingly to be worshipped, as if any FEAR NOT FOR THEIR OWN SALVATION, THAN WHY WOULD THEY ASK FOR A HOLY SPRIT......... even in asking for what one think SAVE themself, show proof that one seek to SAVE themself, and put THEMSELF UNDER MORE PRESENT FEAR and bondage to a law of what be holy and not holy...... indeed many have struggled with this since the time jesus walked, but indeed it seems that to "SEE AS GOD SEE" BE THE ONLY TRUTH OF WHOLE SIGHT, AND HE "GOD" OR WHOLE TRUTH SEEN ALL AS EQUAL, so there HAS TO BE A WHOLE TRUTH ABLE TO MAKE ALL SEE HOW, or how can the wisdom of the father have fully come OR MADE KNOWN WITHIN.......... it did state that the "spirit" and bride say come, NOT HOLY SPIRIT...... what friend can look at another and say this be holy or that be holy and be as friends with COMMON UNDERSTANDING........if any man be common or one with his FATHER, will not both SEE AS THE SAME........ even again it state ALL must also have this HOLY SPIRIT, as it was said the "holy spirit fall on the just and unjust, so the first unjust become just, and the just become as unjust, and now EQUALITY BE HAD BY ALL, all having passed thru be the end the same stages........it did say what be sin for one be not sin for another, AS ALL PASS THRU ALL THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES TO MAINTAIN THE ONCE ILLUSION OF EVIL AND GOOD...... then humankind can get down to work releasing all from the things that evcen grieved themself, such as all the things men have spoken to be sins, which caused ALL to sin, and why it was needed, but indeed this time has PASSED AWAY EVEN ALREADY ACCORDING TO ALL SCRIPTURES......... what fall on man by god that does not have the power to consume in entirety, as it was said that the fire or HOLY SPIRIT OR FEAR OF GOD CONSUME AS STUBLE, LEAVING NOTHING REMAING, AND THAT THERE WOULD BE THIS OUTPOURING, SO IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENDED, AND THIS TIME BE COMING TO A CLOSE EVEN NOW AS WORDS ARE SPOKEN ALL OVER THE GLOBE...... CAN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD FAIL IN ANY PURPOSE TO BECOME JUST AS THE SPIRIT OF GOD INTEND, AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHALL PERISH, SO NONE PERISH!!! THIS BE THE ONLY PERIOD SPOKEN THAT SHALL ETERNALLY AND FOREVER STAND. peace Some men listen.....with their hearts and their souls....others have to much wax and are blinded by their own truths...then the truth that is truly God....... |
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wouldee i have read your post now - thnx, now you read my original post since your so sure of what you say and point by point you tell me if what is stated by them (the preterist) is in line with what the spirit dwelling within you tells you or not. If not, then "show me" where "they are wrong"?? otherwise stop posting, this is for any others who wish to ""show me"" their (the preterist') view's are wrong - don't tell me they are wrong - show me with your spirit that you have and with the guidance he gives you that your right! "point by point"! not just some general statements as is always done but ""point by point"", either put and end to this lie if it is so - or read and accept it as truth - that's all - thnx tribo I did read it, and did so diligently so, tribo. I have been shown this doctrine many many years ago. It won't fly. and what you fail to comprehend about my response is that the answer is for you find for yourself from the Holy Spirit. Outside of that, which is CORE to our faith in Christ, for it is the faith of Jesus which we have been given, there is no viable answer. It is contrary to scripture and cannot harmonize itself comletely. It is snagged on half truths and a lack of context. None of these two views is correct. period. Go to God or let it go. The only accomplishment visible to me from your insistence is your seeking for further excuse to abstain from entering into the promises of God for yourself. There is no other point to your reticence. Others certainly applaud and flatter your query, but it is all just excuses and folly and vanity. The sincerity in the pursuit of the righteousness of God comes from seeking God, not in clever mach8inations of God's words. Be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. I know you have been beat over the head with that one many times. Heed it. peace, out.
Amen and Amen |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 07/05/08 07:52 PM
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My point Wouldee, is that you do not face the issues and flaws or questions of your own religion that you profess to believe in. You just seem to dance around the subject. Rather, you seem like you are high on the idea that the holy spirit of god (or Jesus Christ) fills your being and then you claim that Jesus Christ is the Holy spirit...period. Really? Is that who Jesus Christ is? The Holy spirit? That same holy spirit that fills you and lives in you? Well if Jesus Christ/The Holy Spirit occupies and fills your body, then does that not make you the righteous one? Does that not make you the embodiment of god or Jesus Christ in the flesh? Or are you merely possessed as a demon would possess a person's body? Does Jesus Christ go around possessing bodies now? How does that work exactly? Is man not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus Christ a living man or was he not? Was he both man and a god or was he not? Did he die and come back to life or not? Is he going to come again on a cloud or has he already returned in AD 70 as some people (and the bible) claims? You said this: "Personal proof of Christ's imminent return manifests in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the individual." If Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, now "indwelling in the individual" or in you, then he has ALREADY RETURNED! And apparently he has possessed you, and others like you who are high on the Holy Spirit. Hence proof that Jesus Christ has already returned and is here now as the holy spirit, dwelling in or possessing bodies. So when do you intend to announce that fact? JB yup. He is Almighty God, JB. and you picked up what tribo doesn't get. he has returned, to build a household. The Church. yup. you got it. That is the point. But later, he will return physically and that........... well, let's just say, grace isn't so much the issue as far as faith goes. Faith is not required in His presence. All will know, but they , those yet remaining,won't be the Church of Jesus Christ. yup. you are seeing my point. cool.
Yes, I now understand that you Wouldee, indeed have tossed away the Bible and the Religion and Christianity have started your own personal designer belief. That's okay. Just stop pretending to be what you are not. JB |
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Edited by
tribo
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Sat 07/05/08 08:35 PM
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wouldee i have read your post now - thnx, now you read my original post since your so sure of what you say and point by point you tell me if what is stated by them (the preterist) is in line with what the spirit dwelling within you tells you or not. If not, then "show me" where "they are wrong"?? otherwise stop posting, this is for any others who wish to ""show me"" their (the preterist') view's are wrong - don't tell me they are wrong - show me with your spirit that you have and with the guidance he gives you that your right! "point by point"! not just some general statements as is always done but ""point by point"", either put and end to this lie if it is so - or read and accept it as truth - that's all - thnx tribo I did read it, and did so diligently so, tribo. I have been shown this doctrine many many years ago. It won't fly. and what you fail to comprehend about my response is that the answer is for you find for yourself from the Holy Spirit. Outside of that, which is CORE to our faith in Christ, for it is the faith of Jesus which we have been given, there is no viable answer. It is contrary to scripture and cannot harmonize itself comletely. It is snagged on half truths and a lack of context. None of these two views is correct. period. Go to God or let it go. The only accomplishment visible to me from your insistence is your seeking for further excuse to abstain from entering into the promises of God for yourself. There is no other point to your reticence. Others certainly applaud and flatter your query, but it is all just excuses and folly and vanity. The sincerity in the pursuit of the righteousness of God comes from seeking God, not in clever mach8inations of God's words. Be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. I know you have been beat over the head with that one many times. Heed it. peace, out.
Amen and Amen just more side stepping the issue, though i understand this is your answer, it does no good as to your reasons why you, wouldee, and other's refute it. to state it's full of errors does nothing more than verbally saying anything you disagree with is error, it's meaningless. If you cannot prove it to be errors then i suspect anyone reading this will also see your points to be undefendable, correct? What I'm saying deb is if the futurist position is correct, then show me or other's the flaws in theirs as to yours. they make their case point by point - refute it or quit posting, simple. I'm looking for answers right now, theirs, sounds much more plausible than yours, so convince me and other's that yours is correct or more correct than theirs, that's all. Show me how things spoken to the then present audience in front and with jesus is magically to be transposed to a time thousands of years later? Spurgeon could not do it? so show me now by the holy spirit that dwells within you, is telling your spirit that these things are not so? if he leads you in all truth, then let me here his truth through you, show me your gods might, wisdom, and all else! you claim and wouldee also to have the truth by the spirit, if this be the case it should be simple for gods spirit to answer - why would jesus over and over again tell those present that they would in that time, their generation, see his coming(parousia) respond point by point to their (the preterist) position and show me where their misunderstanding is! Otherwise as far as I'm concerned, your incorrect.
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FATHER THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY SPEAK
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FATHER THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY SPEAK OK, diamond lips, you just gave me my answer, thnx. |
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My point Wouldee, is that you do not face the issues and flaws or questions of your own religion that you profess to believe in. You just seem to dance around the subject. Rather, you seem like you are high on the idea that the holy spirit of god (or Jesus Christ) fills your being and then you claim that Jesus Christ is the Holy spirit...period. Really? Is that who Jesus Christ is? The Holy spirit? That same holy spirit that fills you and lives in you? Well if Jesus Christ/The Holy Spirit occupies and fills your body, then does that not make you the righteous one? Does that not make you the embodiment of god or Jesus Christ in the flesh? Or are you merely possessed as a demon would possess a person's body? Does Jesus Christ go around possessing bodies now? How does that work exactly? Is man not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus not both spirit and flesh? Was Jesus Christ a living man or was he not? Was he both man and a god or was he not? Did he die and come back to life or not? Is he going to come again on a cloud or has he already returned in AD 70 as some people (and the bible) claims? You said this: "Personal proof of Christ's imminent return manifests in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the individual." If Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, now "indwelling in the individual" or in you, then he has ALREADY RETURNED! And apparently he has possessed you, and others like you who are high on the Holy Spirit. Hence proof that Jesus Christ has already returned and is here now as the holy spirit, dwelling in or possessing bodies. So when do you intend to announce that fact? JB yup. He is Almighty God, JB. and you picked up what tribo doesn't get. he has returned, to build a household. The Church. yup. you got it. That is the point. But later, he will return physically and that........... well, let's just say, grace isn't so much the issue as far as faith goes. Faith is not required in His presence. All will know, but they , those yet remaining,won't be the Church of Jesus Christ. yup. you are seeing my point. cool.
Yes, I now understand that you Wouldee, indeed have tossed away the Bible and the Religion and Christianity have started your own personal designer belief. That's okay. Just stop pretending to be what you are not. JB cool. whatever pertensious interptation you have of me, well.... just consider it stopped.
It is your pretension for me, keep it. I won't tell anyone.
peace, out.
just consider it |
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wouldee i have read your post now - thnx, now you read my original post since your so sure of what you say and point by point you tell me if what is stated by them (the preterist) is in line with what the spirit dwelling within you tells you or not. If not, then "show me" where "they are wrong"?? otherwise stop posting, this is for any others who wish to ""show me"" their (the preterist') view's are wrong - don't tell me they are wrong - show me with your spirit that you have and with the guidance he gives you that your right! "point by point"! not just some general statements as is always done but ""point by point"", either put and end to this lie if it is so - or read and accept it as truth - that's all - thnx tribo I did read it, and did so diligently so, tribo. I have been shown this doctrine many many years ago. It won't fly. and what you fail to comprehend about my response is that the answer is for you find for yourself from the Holy Spirit. Outside of that, which is CORE to our faith in Christ, for it is the faith of Jesus which we have been given, there is no viable answer. It is contrary to scripture and cannot harmonize itself comletely. It is snagged on half truths and a lack of context. None of these two views is correct. period. Go to God or let it go. The only accomplishment visible to me from your insistence is your seeking for further excuse to abstain from entering into the promises of God for yourself. There is no other point to your reticence. Others certainly applaud and flatter your query, but it is all just excuses and folly and vanity. The sincerity in the pursuit of the righteousness of God comes from seeking God, not in clever mach8inations of God's words. Be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. I know you have been beat over the head with that one many times. Heed it. peace, out.
Amen and Amen just more side stepping the issue, though i understand this is your answer, it does no good as to your reasons why you, wouldee, and other's refute it. to state it's full of errors does nothing more than verbally saying anything you disagree with is error, it's meaningless. If you cannot prove it to be errors then i suspect anyone reading this will also see your points to be undefendable, correct? What I'm saying deb is if the futurist position is correct, then show me or other's the flaws in theirs as to yours. they make their case point by point - refute it or quit posting, simple. I'm looking for answers right now, theirs, sounds much more plausible than yours, so convince me and other's that yours is correct or more correct than theirs, that's all. Show me how things spoken to the then present audience in front and with jesus is magically to be transposed to a time thousands of years later? Spurgeon could not do it? so show me now by the holy spirit that dwells within you, is telling your spirit that these things are not so? if he leads you in all truth, then let me here his truth through you, show me your gods might, wisdom, and all else! you claim and wouldee also to have the truth by the spirit, if this be the case it should be simple for gods spirit to answer - why would jesus over and over again tell those present that they would in that time, their generation, see his coming(parousia) respond point by point to their (the preterist) position and show me where their misunderstanding is! Otherwise as far as I'm concerned, your incorrect.
I told you why. For one, I am why. Done. |
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